How CHURCHES led America to forsake God!

[kroz]

That may be a move for Kroz to give careful consideration to. She is a natural teacher with all the other qualifications. The church I attend now started in the pastor's home some 50 years ago. Non-denominational home worship is growing.

There have been a few points made that struck me.

1) Over doing  the spiritual. We could call it the feel good. Again, we should search the scriptures. I recently took up the invitation to feed back and spoke against familiar spirits, New Age Tarot, movies like "Ghost," witchcraft, that sort of thing. Some of the congregation were taken by surprise.

2) According to some, the evangelical movement is a deception.  The idea is that as the left infiltrated the main line, on its path to destroying the institutional power, it had to create some place for the conservative Christians, the true believers, to go after they had been run off. Some evangelical services resemble show business. The main thing, though, has been the destruction of the institutions.

3) Media evangelists have long been the subjects of controversy, probably since the first radio jock put the first microphone in the first tent meeting. We must be very careful, if we are committed to truth, that is, with our assessments. At the same time, the evangelists should be careful as to how they structure their organizations and how they manipulate the content. Billy Sunday was preaching on a flat bed truck. A film maker turned on the camera. The rest, I am told is history.

4) There really is no line of authority with media evangelists and mega church preachers. It is a form of free enterprise. Remember, it was Billy Graham who bailed out Martin Luther King, and later virtually told us Protestants that what King was doing was just and right. We fell in line. Graham also legitimized some war activity that we later discovered had highly questionable origins; but, he was Billy Graham, by golly, America's preacher. Who's to argue?  That's a lot of power for someone to basically create for himself.

https://youtu.be/bOzEx3sY1n8

It is not over doing the spiritual that is the problem.  It is the overdoing of the physical expression of spirituality.  There is a big difference.

A case study would be Charles Finney.  He was the first great charismatic evangelist.  He criss crossed the country with his evangelistic tent meetings.  He created the "anxious bench" which he placed at the from of the audience and invited sinners to come to the bench and openly confess their sins.  That was the beginning of the tradition of making "alter calls" at the end of a sermon.  It was Finney who also began "slaying people in the spirit"!  They would fall over on the floor when he touched them. ..... ala Benny Hinn today!

Decades after that supposedly first "great awakening" across America, Finney returned to the sites where he had first preached to the thousands.  The odd thing is that he found the people had not changed one iota after he left town.  They returned to their same sinful ways.  So he deemed his ministry a failure.

The true Spirit of God changes lives.

[zewazir]

We were warned about this phenomenon. False prophecy.  "Many will be deceived." Wolves clothed as sheep. Etc.

When a church, evangelist, pastor, ec. takes it upon themselves to preach only those parts of Gospel that make people feel good, they are guilty of false prophecy.  The teachings of Christ were not all warm fuzzies. We are to cut off our hands, or pluck out our eyes, if they cause us to sin, because "it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire." 

"The Kingdom of Heaven is like..."  Christ gave us several examples, many of which included the idea of chaff being separated from the wheat, and then cast into unquenchable fire.

ANYONE who thinks forgiveness is automatic, that "whosoever believes" is all it takes are putting themselves in danger of having Christ tell them "I know you not."  No one but the Father can say who actually will receive salvation, and who will be condemned. But we need to know what we have to do to give ourselves the best chance at salvation. Christ gave us all the hints we need, and those hints include following God's Laws, and doing things His way - NOT our own way.

[tac]

I agree: the reason most people are ignorant is because they read stuff like Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyers. BUT, it doesn't have to be that way. A good 25% of the stuff I read in Seminary (historic Christianity) is available in the public domain, you don't have to pay for it. You have to know where to look, but that's not difficult, either. There are also some great resources on Biblical exegesis, such as the Blue Letter Bible, on the internet.

Why don't you start a study group, here, at home, at your Church?

Here is a good source for the teachings of the early church fathers.

[red_dirt]

Here is a good source for the teachings of the early church fathers.

Mail line Protestantism was not dismantled overnight. It was a very deliberate and long term mission, driven, really, by covetousness. What was coveted? Why, the wealth and positions of the generations of Protestants, positions acquired over the years from the mid 1500's to the early 1900's, or, possibly up until the first and second world wars.

The Protestant ethic was open and welcoming. Immigration policy proceeded in cycles of immigrate/assimilate. The country would open the doors only after the previous wave was deemed to have assimilated, during which period the needs of the nation were debated to decide what the next wave of immigration should concentrate on. America has always had that luxury of picking and choosing.

Paradoxically, the centers of immigration, the cities, have always had unusual political power, owing to the democratic system. Up until the 1840's, immigrants normally made the initial adjustment in the cities, then spread out to the outer limits, agricultural or developing cities outside New York, Boston, Philadelphia, or New Haven.
The change in the 1840's is that the immigrants turned down the offers to spread out. They preferred to remain and take over the cities. This was when the modern Democratic organizations really took the present form.

Pitiful Washington management looked the other way.  Next thing you know, we arrive at the present. Incidentally, socialism and communism may well have not been on the early radar screen of the Democrats. Never the less, that's what we have been warned will come in as a solution once the Democrats run out of other people's money.

[kroz]

We were warned about this phenomenon. False prophecy.  "Many will be deceived." Wolves clothed as sheep. Etc.

When a church, evangelist, pastor, ec. takes it upon themselves to preach only those parts of Gospel that make people feel good, they are guilty of false prophecy.  The teachings of Christ were not all warm fuzzies. We are to cut off our hands, or pluck out our eyes, if they cause us to sin, because "it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire." 

"The Kingdom of Heaven is like..."  Christ gave us several examples, many of which included the idea of chaff being separated from the wheat, and then cast into unquenchable fire.

ANYONE who thinks forgiveness is automatic, that "whosoever believes" is all it takes are putting themselves in danger of having Christ tell them "I know you not." No one but the Father can say who actually will receive salvation, and who will be condemned. But we need to know what we have to do to give ourselves the best chance at salvation. Christ gave us all the hints we need, and those hints include following God's Laws, and doing things His way - NOT our own way.

1 John 5:13 says..

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

We are not intended to worry about salvation.  And there is nothing that WE do to save ourselves.  It is the free gift of God according to His loving mercy.

And the new covenant given to us by Jesus Christ is written on our hearts.... not tablets of stone.

For those hung up on being good enough... doing enough good works...following old testament law....  NONE of that will work.  No one was able to follow the mosaic law except Jesus Christ.  NO ONE is good enough to enter heaven on their own merit.

It is the grace of God that saves some of us.... otherwise we would all be condemned to hell.

[red_dirt]

Jesus said, "If you do not deny me before men, I will not deny you before God."

There is hope, and man, by his will and ways,  can influence the outcome. It is unfair to say that it is all out of our hands. That grace is the servant standing at the door. When the master inside says, "Let them in," not until then will the servant open the door. What caused the master to issue the command? Only the false prophet claims he has that influence. He does not. 
On Earth, Jesus Christ rewarded faithfulness. Love is not in vain.
The man has been among us who "traveled," as it were, between the two worlds, the Earthly and the Heavenly kingdoms. We can hear stories of people "dying" on the operating table, then telling us about it. But it is the Saviour who has the true testimony.  Popular culture would like to influence our every thought on these matters. People watch "Ghost" and come away thinking Demi Moore, Patrick Swayze, and Whoopie Goldberg have given them insight. What nonsense!  We can only search the scriptures and search our hearts for those clues.

[kroz]

Jesus said, "If you do not deny me before men, I will not deny you before God."

There is hope, and man, by his will and ways,  can influence the outcome. It is unfair to say that it is all out of our hands. That grace is the servant standing at the door. When the master inside says, "Let them in," not until then will the servant open the door. What caused the master to issue the command? Only the false prophet claims he has that influence. He does not. 
On Earth, Jesus Christ rewarded faithfulness. Love is not in vain.
The man has been among us who "traveled," as it were, between the two worlds, the Earthly and the Heavenly kingdoms. We can hear stories of people "dying" on the operating table, then telling us about it. But it is the Saviour who has the true testimony.  Popular culture would like to influence our every thought on these matters. People watch "Ghost" and come away thinking Demi Moore, Patrick Swayze, and Whoopie Goldberg have given them insight. What nonsense!  We can only search the scriptures and search our hearts for those clues.

Scripture says that there are none who seek after God.  What does that mean?

It means that WE do not initiate our own salvation.  How do we know that?  Jesus tells us.....

John 6:44    

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Even our desire to seek God is initiated by God.  God draws us and convicts us of our sins.  That conviction is the work of the Holy Spirit.   Apart for the convicting work of the HS, we do not seek after God's gracious gift.

Yes, we do play an important part in the process.  We respond to God with a contrite heart.  And we will not deny Him before men because His Spirit indwells us.  We cannot deny that which is within us and is our seal for eternity.

Jesus also said:

Jhn 6:37
"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

Jhn 6:38
"For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

Jhn 6:39
"This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.


This is strong doctrinal teaching that is difficult for some.

[supsalemgr]

Scripture says that there are none who seek after God.  What does that mean?

It means that WE do not initiate our own salvation.  How do we know that?  Jesus tells us.....

John 6:44    

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Even our desire to seek God is initiated by God.  God draws us and convicts us of our sins.  That conviction is the work of the Holy Spirit.   Apart for the convicting work of the HS, we do not seek after God's gracious gift.

Yes, we do play an important part in the process.  We respond to God with a contrite heart.  And we will not deny Him before men because His Spirit indwells us.  We cannot deny that which is within us and is our seal for eternity.

Jesus also said:

Jhn 6:37
"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

Jhn 6:38
"For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

Jhn 6:39
"This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.


This is strong doctrinal teaching that is difficult for some.

In my view each person's faith is a very personal relationship with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That being said, I find the book of John the most inspirational to me.

[kroz]

In my view each person's faith is a very personal relationship with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That being said, I find the book of John the most inspirational to me.

I agree.  The Gospel of John is my favorite Gospel because John's purpose is to prove the deity of Jesus Christ.  It is a powerful message.  John and Romans are my two favorite NT Books.

Our faith is ALL ABOUT our relationship with God.  The study of doctrine can be difficult but is important to our spiritual growth.