Farewell to the Rapture

[Reverend]

Little did Paul know how his colorful metaphors for Jesus' second coming would be misunderstood two millennia later.

The American obsession with the second coming of Jesus — especially with distorted interpretations of it — continues unabated.  Seen from my side of the Atlantic, the phenomenal success of the Left Behind books appears puzzling, even bizarre.  Few in the U.K. hold the belief on which the popular series of novels is based: that there will be a literal "rapture" in which believers will be snatched up to heaven, leaving empty cars crashing on freeways and kids coming home from school only to find that their parents have been taken to be with Jesus while they have been "left behind." This pseudo-theological version of Home Alone has reportedly frightened many children into some kind of (distorted) faith.

This dramatic end-time scenario is based (wrongly, as we shall see) on Paul's First Letter to the Thessalonians, where he writes:

"For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of an archangel and the trumpet of God.  The dead in Christ will rise first; then we, who are left alive, will be snatched up with them on clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord" (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)).

What on earth (or in heaven) did Paul mean?

It is Paul who should be credited with creating this scenario.  Jesus himself, as I have argued in various books, never predicted such an event.  The gospel passages about:

"the Son of Man coming on the clouds" (Mark 13:26, 14:62)

are about Jesus' vindication, his "coming" to heaven from earth.  The parables about a returning king or master (for example, Luke 19:11-27) were originally about God returning to Jerusalem, not about Jesus returning to earth.  This, Jesus seemed to believe, was an event within space-time history, not one that would end it forever.

Read more:

http://preachersinstitute.com/2014/07/11/farewell-to-the-rapture/

[dadman]

[iActs 1:9-11.. and after he had said these things .. he was lifted up while they were looking on .. and a cloud received him out of their sight .. and as they were gazing intently into the sky while he was going .. behold .. two men in white clothing stood beside them .. they also said . . . men of Galilee .. why do you stand looking into the sky .. this Jesus .. who has been taken up from you into heaven .. will come in just the same way as you have watched him go into heaven[/i] ..... blessed are those who love his appearing

the return of Christ

coming in the clouds

Mark 13:24-27.. but in those days .. after that tribulation .. the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light .. and the stars will be falling from heaven .. and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken .. then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory .. and then he will send forth the angels .. and will gather together his elect from the four winds .. from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven .... Maranatha

The end of the age will be marked by religious apostasy (Mk 13:6) .. wars and rumors of wars (Mk 13:7) .. upheavals among kingdoms (Mk 13:8) .. earthquakes .. famines .. and trouble (Mk 13:8) .. the publishing of the gospel in all nations (Mk 13:10) .. disregard of law (Mk 13:12) .. and manifestations of hatred toward the preachers of the gospel (Mk 13:13) .. the age will culminate in a time of trouble such as the world has never known (Mk 13:19) .. and will end in the glorious appearing of the Christ in the clouds (Mk 13:26) .. Let it be our care that whenever he will come he may find us at our duty .. ready to meet him . . . . Mk 13:28-30 the fig tree is a type of Israel .. when Israel again starts to bud as a nation .. after hundreds of years in dispersion .. we may be sure Christ's coming is near .. the word "generation" in Mk 13:30 is literally "race" the nation of Israel has a promise here that it will be preserved until these things are fulfilled .. Israel is even now budding .. his coming is therefore "even at the doors" .... gty.org

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18.. for this we say to you by the word of the Lord .. that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord .. will not precede those who have fallen asleep .. for the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout .. with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God .. and the dead in Christ will rise first .. then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air .. and so we shall always be with the Lord .. therefore comfort one another with these words

[dadman]

I thought this was a good read ........ Though some suggest the rapture is simply an escape teaching, they forget the principle of separation found throughout the Bible.
Noah escaped death during the flood (see Heb. 11:7),
Lot escaped the destruction of Sodom (see Gen. 19:29),
the Hebrews escaped the destroying angel (see Ex. 12:23),
Rahab was spared when Jericho's walls fell (see Heb.11:31),
and in the coming tribulation a Jewish remnant will escape the Antichrist (see Dan. 11:41; Rev. 7:3).

Http://www.charismanews.com/40-year-anniversary/51680-the-case-for-the-rapture

[daidalos]

[Acts 1:9-11.. and after he had said these things .. he was lifted up while they were looking on .. and a cloud received him out of their sight .. and as they were gazing intently into the sky while he was going .. behold .. two men in white clothing stood beside them .. they also said . . . men of Galilee .. why do you stand looking into the sky .. this Jesus .. who has been taken up from you into heaven .. will come in just the same way as you have watched him go into heaven[/i] ..... blessed are those who love his appearing

the return of Christ

coming in the clouds

[iMark 13:24-27.. but in those days .. after that tribulation .. the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light .. and the stars will be falling from heaven .. and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken .. then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory .. and then he will send forth the angels .. and will gather together his elect from the four winds .. from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven[/i] .... Maranatha

The end of the age will be marked by religious apostasy (Mk 13:6) .. wars and rumors of wars (Mk 13:7) .. upheavals among kingdoms (Mk 13:8) .. earthquakes .. famines .. and trouble (Mk 13:8) .. the publishing of the gospel in all nations (Mk 13:10) .. disregard of law (Mk 13:12) .. and manifestations of hatred toward the preachers of the gospel (Mk 13:13) .. the age will culminate in a time of trouble such as the world has never known (Mk 13:19) .. and will end in the glorious appearing of the Christ in the clouds (Mk 13:26) .. Let it be our care that whenever he will come he may find us at our duty .. ready to meet him . . . . Mk 13:28-30 the fig tree is a type of Israel .. when Israel again starts to bud as a nation .. after hundreds of years in dispersion .. we may be sure Christ's coming is near .. the word "generation" in Mk 13:30 is literally "race" the nation of Israel has a promise here that it will be preserved until these things are fulfilled .. Israel is even now budding .. his coming is therefore "even at the doors" .... gty.org

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18[/url] .. for this we say to you by the word of the Lord .. that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord .. will not precede those who have fallen asleep .. for the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout .. with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God .. and the dead in Christ will rise first .. then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air .. and so we shall always be with the Lord .. therefore comfort one another with these words

Yeah I was just going let the OP know that it wasn't just Paul who said this about the Lord's return. See that's modern "Organized Christianity" of today for ya. When all one hears is John 3:16 every sermon, it's not surprising so many don't know that it was Christ himself who said not only that he would return. But that his return would be unexpected, surprising, and that he would remove the church, prior to the tribulation or "birth pains". 

[SVPete]

Yeah I was just going let the OP know that it wasn't just Paul who said this about the Lord's return. See that's modern "Organized Christianity" of today for ya. When all one hears is John 3:16 every sermon, it's not surprising so many don't know that it was Christ himself who said not only that he would return. But that his return would be unexpected, surprising, and that he would remove the church, prior to the tribulation or "birth pains". 

Actually, the article linked in the OP is from an Orthodox site, not Pentecostal/charismatic or Evangelical or Holiness or mainline Protestant (where dwell theological liberals, - though not all are). I don't think the common labels apply very precisely, but the Orthodox are probably in the neighborhood of the Amillennial view of eschatology.

Is this an issue for contentious discussion/argument? The Orthodox believe in Jesus' Second Coming. Pre-Mil--Pre-Trib folks believe in Jesus' Second Coming. The issue comes down to the manner, and that really shouldn't be a cause for contentiousness among believers (and that seems, at the least, to be the purpose of the article in the OP). Perry Stone's CharismaNews article (for some reason, dadman's link doesn't work ... or maybe my browser tossed its cookies) has a better tone.

[Reverend]

Actually, the article linked in the OP is from an Orthodox site, not Pentecostal/charismatic or Evangelical or Holiness or mainline Protestant (where dwell theological liberals, - though not all are). I don't think the common labels apply very precisely, but the Orthodox are probably in the neighborhood of the Amillennial view of eschatology.

Is this an issue for contentious discussion/argument? The Orthodox believe in Jesus' Second Coming. Pre-Mil--Pre-Trib folks believe in Jesus' Second Coming. The issue comes down to the manner, and that really shouldn't be a cause for contentiousness among believers (and that seems, at the least, to be the purpose of the article in the OP). Perry Stone's CharismaNews article (for some reason, dadman's link doesn't work ... or maybe my browser tossed its cookies) has a better tone.

Dadgum and some of the others remind me of your typical charismatic renewal types. If you don't speak in tongues or share in their gnostic beliefs then you are not "saved". Worse, if you are not a Protestant, you are involved in some kind of conspiracy to start a "one world religion".

Daidalos said:

See that's modern "Organized Christianity" of today for ya.

I guess you prefer disorganized Christianity.

[Reverend]

Yeah I was just going let the OP know that it wasn't just Paul who said this about the Lord's return. See that's modern "Organized Christianity" of today for ya. When all one hears is John 3:16 every sermon, it's not surprising so many don't know that it was Christ himself who said not only that he would return. But that his return would be unexpected, surprising, and that he would remove the church, prior to the tribulation or "birth pains". 

Well, you and a few others are going to be VERY surprised when you go to your graves knowing that the event you have been predicting for over 100 years has not happened.

[SVPete]

Dadgum and some of the others remind me of your typical charismatic renewal types. If you don't speak in tongues or share in their gnostic beliefs then you are not "saved". Worse, if you are not a Protestant, you are involved in some kind of conspiracy to start a "one world religion".

Well, I'll give you 40% credit on this part of your post. While I've been attending and serving in a Baptist church for some 7 years and my upbringing was Lutheran, I was in charismatic churches for over 20 years. But "typical"? Please! There's enough variety among charismatics that the word can't work. As for the views you attribute to "typical charismatic renewal types":

"If you don't speak in tongues ... then you are not 'saved'" - I guess you didn't read my post very carefully. If you had you would have noticed that my phrase "among believers", in context, included you, who I perceived as being Orthodox. So, no I do not and never have believed that speaking in tongues is a prerequisite for salvation. I'm aware that there are some Pentecostals and charismatics "out there" who do believe that, but in my experience they are very uncommon.

"If you don't ... share in their gnostic beliefs then you are not 'saved'" - "Gnostic" is a term tossed about loosely, so I'm not sure what you mean by gnostic beliefs. Working from what I know of historic gnostics, mainstream charismatics have no secret initiation rites or insiders-only ceremonies, no teaching taught only to initiates, and do not view non-charismatics as unsaved or inferiors. As I pointed out above, I included you in the phrase "among believers".

"Worse, if you are not a Protestant" - While I am a Protestant, with understandings of the Bible to match, I do not and never have believed that only Protestants are Christian believers. That was what was taught in the Lutheran church of my upbringing, the various charismatic, Baptist, and other Protestant churches of which I've been a member.

"you are involved in some kind of conspiracy to start a 'one world religion'" - Ignoring a few far-from-the-mainstream folks, the belief that the Catholic Church will evolve into (but is not now) a "one world religion" is common among Pre-Mil Pre-Trib folks. The problem with your statement, however, is that as visible as Pre-Mil Pre-Trib eschatology is, it's not held anywhere near universally among Protestants, Evangelicals, or even charismatics. So your statement paints all Protestants with your misunderstanding of the views of those of a large minority.

All in all, whether you are Orthodox or Catholic or "Traditional" Catholic, you have a serious - even severe - lack of knowledge and understanding of those you criticize. And you have committed two almost amusing errors: you are telling people who know what they actually do believe what you think they "believe"[/b]; you accuse charismatics and Protestants of being exclusive, of not accepting Catholic and Orthodox believers as brothers in a way that demonstrate that you do not accept charismatics and Protestants as your brothers in sisters in Christ.

There's a word for that latter mistake ... it comes from the Greek language ... it begins with "H".

[SVPete]

... charismatic renewal ...

BTW, your usage of this term revealed that you aren't very familiar with charismatics. Except for some who remained in their original denominational churches - e.g. Catholic Charismatics - this term fell out of common usage among charismatics in the early-mid 1970s.

[Reverend]

BTW, your usage of this term revealed that you aren't very familiar with charismatics. Except for some who remained in their original denominational churches - e.g. Catholic Charismatics - this term fell out of common usage among charismatics in the early-mid 1970s.

I was exposed to Pentecostalism at an early age, have attended charismatic denominations across the spectrum from AG's to the Toronto Blessing bunch, pre and post 1970's, all the way up to the end of the 20th century. I was also a Lutheran at one point.

And as long as we're on the subject, I am neither a Roman Catholic nor am I an Eastern Catholic, but I am Orthodox.

You appear to have jumped to a few of your own conclusions.

[SVPete]

I was exposed to Pentecostalism at an early age, have attended charismatic denominations across the spectrum from AG's to the Toronto Blessing bunch, pre and post 1970's, all the way up to the end of the 20th century. I was also a Lutheran at one point.

Yet with all that experience you don't realize that there are no charismatic denominations, and call one of the oldest Pentecostal denominations, the Assemblies of God, a "charismatic denomination"? Or do you not know that the Pentecostal movement and charismatic movement were two different phenomena, separated in time by several decades. While there was some influence, initially, from some Pentecostal teachers, the charismatic movement started within traditional, older, Protestant denominations and the Catholic Church. And many/most charismatics who left their denominations formed their own, independent, congregations rather than joining traditional Pentecostal denominations.

And as long as we're on the subject, I am neither a Roman Catholic nor am I an Eastern Catholic, but I am Orthodox.

You appear to have jumped to a few of your own conclusions.

My initial impression, based on the site you linked, was that you are Orthodox. Later I realized that was a bit of a leap and posted, "whether you are Orthodox or Catholic or "Traditional" Catholic". Still quite different from your ascription of certain beliefs to me. My response to that was the meat of my post:

... But "typical"? Please! There's enough variety among charismatics that the word can't work. As for the views you attribute to "typical charismatic renewal types":

"If you don't speak in tongues ... then you are not 'saved'" - I guess you didn't read my post very carefully. If you had you would have noticed that my phrase "among believers", in context, included you, who I perceived as being Orthodox. So, no I do not and never have believed that speaking in tongues is a prerequisite for salvation. I'm aware that there are some Pentecostals and charismatics "out there" who do believe that, but in my experience they are very uncommon.

"If you don't ... share in their gnostic beliefs then you are not 'saved'" - "Gnostic" is a term tossed about loosely, so I'm not sure what you mean by gnostic beliefs. Working from what I know of historic gnostics, mainstream charismatics have no secret initiation rites or insiders-only ceremonies, no teaching taught only to initiates, and do not view non-charismatics as unsaved or inferiors. As I pointed out above, I included you in the phrase "among believers".

"Worse, if you are not a Protestant" - While I am a Protestant, with understandings of the Bible to match, I do not and never have believed that only Protestants are Christian believers. That was what was taught in the Lutheran church of my upbringing, the various charismatic, Baptist, and other Protestant churches of which I've been a member.

"you are involved in some kind of conspiracy to start a 'one world religion'" - Ignoring a few far-from-the-mainstream folks, the belief that the Catholic Church will evolve into (but is not now) a "one world religion" is common among Pre-Mil Pre-Trib folks. The problem with your statement, however, is that as visible as Pre-Mil Pre-Trib eschatology is, it's not held anywhere near universally among Protestants, Evangelicals, or even charismatics. So your statement paints all Protestants with your misunderstanding of the views of those of a large minority.
...
quote]

It was also the largest portion of my post, yet you ignored it.

[Reverend]

Still quite different from your ascription of certain beliefs to me.

Here's the problem, I didn't ascribe ANY beliefs to YOU, I was wondering why you were being so defensive.

[SVPete]

Here's the problem, I didn't ascribe ANY beliefs to YOU, I was wondering why you were being so defensive.

OK, look again at your post above. Look immediately above:

Dadgum and some of the others remind me of your typical charismatic renewal types. If you don't speak in tongues or share in their gnostic beliefs then you are not "saved". Worse, if you are not a Protestant, you are involved in some kind of conspiracy to start a "one world religion".

Immediately above that is a quote from my initial post on this thread. Am I not "some of the others" on this thread? At that point in this thread there were 4 participants: you; dadman; daidalos; me. You mentioned dadman by nickname, so unless you were one of the "others" on this thread, your statement "some of the others" had to include me. That's just a matter of the grammar of your sentence: "others" is plural. Then there's the fact that, as I mentioned above, I've been a member of charismatic churches for a over 20 years (though you could not have known that with certainty when you posted what I quoted above). Pentecostals and charismatics certainly have their share of strange people - and I do have a sense of humor in that regard - but there is nothing humorous in broad-brushing all charismatics as exclusivist, elitist, neo-gnostics (and I can't tell whether your shot about the belief that non-Protestants are in a -one-world-religion conspiracy is aimed narrowly at charismatics or at Protestants generally).

[Reverend]

OK, look again at your post above. Look immediately above:

Immediately above that is a quote from my initial post on this thread. Am I not "some of the others" on this thread? At that point in this thread there were 4 participants: you; dadman; daidalos; me. You mentioned dadman by nickname, so unless you were one of the "others" on this thread, your statement "some of the others" had to include me. That's just a matter of the grammar of your sentence: "others" is plural. Then there's the fact that, as I mentioned above, I've been a member of charismatic churches for a over 20 years (though you could not have known that with certainty when you posted what I quoted above). Pentecostals and charismatics certainly have their share of strange people - and I do have a sense of humor in that regard - but there is nothing humorous in broad-brushing all charismatics as exclusivist, elitist, neo-gnostics (and I can't tell whether your shot about the belief that non-Protestants are in a -one-world-religion conspiracy is aimed narrowly at charismatics or at Protestants generally).

Well, if you're going to tell me what and whom I was talking about you certainly don't need me for this discussion.