What does everything happens for a reason even mean? If everything happens for a reason then how do any of us have free will and control over our own destinies? Were those who committed murder in our past, committing murder in the now and will commit murder in the future meant to commit murder? Were those who were murdered meant to die at that particular point?
Was Jesus meant to die on the cross when he did? Was it ordained that he would die on the cross? If Judas had no other choice but to betray Jesus then how did Judas sin? How did he betray anyone at all? Didn't Judas serve his purpose?
I don't get it. How does free will, choice, personal responsibility coincide with everything happening for a reason?
Am I misunderstanding something somewhere?
A fascinating question, of course everything happens for a reason for if nothing preceded everything how would there be something. You have to read Galen Strawson sometime or check out his writings and YouTubes. See link below.
Your comment on Judas seems to indicate you are doubting religion and wondering about free will and determinism. Free will is a tough sell as we do not at any time select our birth or many other items that make us us. We are individuals who managed to be out of twenty million possibilities this person. And consider too a quote I like since you mention Judas, 'How can the Devil be evil if he punishes people who do evil things?'
But I'd argue there is brief or slim chance and hope that we think hard enough or deep enough to know free will is imaginary but so is determinism. I'll see what others say.
"It struck me as an operational way to define free will, in a way that allowed you to reconcile free will with determinism. The system is deterministic, but you can't say what it's going to do next." James Gleick 'Chaos'
https://believermag.com/an-interview-with-galen-strawson/
"Free will is the thing you have to have if you're going to be responsible in this all-or-nothing way. That's what I mean by free will. That's what I think we haven't got and can't have." Galen Strawson
Quote from: alienhand on July 13, 2019, 12:12:05 AM
What does everything happens for a reason even mean? If everything happens for a reason then how do any of us have free will and control over our own destinies? Were those who committed murder in our past, committing murder in the now and will commit murder in the future meant to commit murder? Were those who were murdered meant to die at that particular point?
Was Jesus meant to die on the cross when he did? Was it ordained that he would die on the cross? If Judas had no other choice but to betray Jesus then how did Judas sin? How did he betray anyone at all? Didn't Judas serve his purpose?
I don't get it. How does free will, choice, personal responsibility coincide with everything happening for a reason?
Am I misunderstanding something somewhere?
Life is akin to a board game with certain parameters being life and taking steps to pass go and trying to keep out of jail.
There are infinite rules to simply being, even rolling the dice is like taking a chance on your next move, but you also have the freewill to sit at start and never take a risk, but then, that's not really living, that's just existing.
Stop playing the character of a coward in life and Fuckin roll the damn dice already! What in the Hell are you afraid of?
Everything happens for a reason: if you get dumped by your girlfriend, and you meet a better girl when you are out and about, it's fate. If you didn't get dumped, you would not have been in that situation to meet the new girl. It happened for a reason.
Quote from: alienhand on July 13, 2019, 12:12:05 AM
What does everything happens for a reason even mean? If everything happens for a reason then how do any of us have free will and control over our own destinies? Were those who committed murder in our past, committing murder in the now and will commit murder in the future meant to commit murder? Were those who were murdered meant to die at that particular point?
Was Jesus meant to die on the cross when he did? Was it ordained that he would die on the cross? If Judas had no other choice but to betray Jesus then how did Judas sin? How did he betray anyone at all? Didn't Judas serve his purpose?
I don't get it. How does free will, choice, personal responsibility coincide with everything happening for a reason?
Am I misunderstanding something somewhere?
The question of free will bothers me too very much. Once when I was young, I thought free will meant we can completely design our lives. But as I grow older, I realised there is very little we can actually do or change, if anything at all. God has created us with certain personality and predetermined behavior, and so what can we change or do ourselves? Nothing, really. That is why Jesus said we should hate the sin but not the sinner. Free will means very little, and that is that we are responsible for our deeds, but that doesn't mean that we have created our deeds. That is why the human ego is an illusion.
Look at the John Lennon's very underestimated song "All You Need Is Love". The lyrics are perfectly answering to your inquiries. Especially these ones.
Nothing you can do, but you can learn how to be you in time. It's easy. All you need is love.There's nothing you can do, but you can learn how to be the best version of yourself. And what you need is love to God and love to other people and love to yourself. That is why God has created the world.
Quote from: milos on July 13, 2019, 11:03:56 AM
The question of free will bothers me too very much. Once when I was young, I thought free will meant we can completely design our lives. But as I grow older, I realised there is very little we can actually do or change, if anything at all. God has created us with certain personality and predetermined behavior, and so what can we change or do ourselves? Nothing, really. That is why Jesus said we should hate the sin but not the sinner. Free will means very little, and that is that we are responsible for our deeds, but that doesn't mean that we have created our deeds. That is why the human ego is an illusion.
Look at the John Lennon's very underestimated song "All You Need Is Love". The lyrics are perfectly answering to your inquiries. Especially these ones.
Nothing you can do, but you can learn how to be you in time. It's easy. All you need is love.
There's nothing you can do, but you can learn how to be the best version of yourself. And what you need is love to God and love to other people and love to yourself. That is why God has created the world.
You know what Milos? I'm going to meditate on this.
But, God created us b/c he wanted something to give out his love to.
Quote from: Solar on July 13, 2019, 06:47:57 AM
Life is akin to a board game with certain parameters being life and taking steps to pass go and trying to keep out of jail.
There are infinite rules to simply being, even rolling the dice is like taking a chance on your next move, but you also have the freewill to sit at start and never take a risk, but then, that's not really living, that's just existing.
Stop playing the character of a coward in life and Fuckin roll the damn dice already! What in the Hell are you afraid of?
Ok Solar I'm going to do the same for you as I do walkstall. Anytime, I'm told that I'm on welfare, told to sack up, roll the dice, take personal responsibility for my life, etc, etc, etc when I don't know how I will say:
Will you be my Henry Higgins from My Fair Lady and/or Pygmalion?
This goes for anyone.
Well, I do know Jesus put more emphasis on expressing regret for sin than even in avoiding it altogether.
If recognizing where I have failed, and being sorry for those failings is what Jesus is looking for, I may be ok.
The older I get, it seems I spend more time regretting than actually accomplishing anything.
Quote from: alienhand on July 13, 2019, 12:12:05 AM
What does everything happens for a reason even mean? If everything happens for a reason then how do any of us have free will and control over our own destinies? Were those who committed murder in our past, committing murder in the now and will commit murder in the future meant to commit murder? Were those who were murdered meant to die at that particular point?
Was Jesus meant to die on the cross when he did? Was it ordained that he would die on the cross? If Judas had no other choice but to betray Jesus then how did Judas sin? How did he betray anyone at all? Didn't Judas serve his purpose?
I don't get it. How does free will, choice, personal responsibility coincide with everything happening for a reason?
Am I misunderstanding something somewhere?
I do not recall the Bible advocating that Everything happens for a reason. It does say God had Foreknowledge of this reality, and that He knew us from the beginning of time.
God's Will is the determiner for the reasoning of all things. That does not mean that if you break your leg, it was to serve God's Purpose. The REASON you broke your leg, is that you were possibly careless.
I think it inspires us to look to the positive in the event that something bad happens to us. Sometimes, it is God's Love for us that works wonders at a time of need. His Blessings appear to be Miracles, to us.
I do not believe in Fate. I do not believe in Predisposition. I believe God's way is Causal and Effective. If you cause it, it will affect you.
Quote from: tiny1 on November 11, 2019, 01:38:05 PM
I do not recall the Bible advocating that Everything happens for a reason. It does say God had Foreknowledge of this reality, and that He knew us from the beginning of time.
God's Will is the determiner for the reasoning of all things. That does not mean that if you break your leg, it was to serve God's Purpose. The REASON you broke your leg, is that you were possibly careless.
I think it inspires us to look to the positive in the event that something bad happens to us. Sometimes, it is God's Love for us that works wonders at a time of need. His Blessings appear to be Miracles, to us.
I do not believe in Fate. I do not believe in Predisposition. I believe God's way is Causal and Effective. If you cause it, it will affect you.
:thumbup:
Quote from: alienhand on July 13, 2019, 12:12:05 AM
What does everything happens for a reason even mean? If everything happens for a reason then how do any of us have free will and control over our own destinies? Were those who committed murder in our past, committing murder in the now and will commit murder in the future meant to commit murder? Were those who were murdered meant to die at that particular point?
Was Jesus meant to die on the cross when he did? Was it ordained that he would die on the cross? If Judas had no other choice but to betray Jesus then how did Judas sin? How did he betray anyone at all? Didn't Judas serve his purpose?
I don't get it. How does free will, choice, personal responsibility coincide with everything happening for a reason?
Am I misunderstanding something somewhere?
I have had the same thoughts. As to Judas, maybe he was destined to betray Jesus (aren't we all? we are all sinners...) but he also was destined to have the option of accepting Christ's forgiveness and he chose not to, so that was where free will comes in..
does that help?
Quote from: Solar on July 13, 2019, 06:47:57 AM
Life is akin to a board game with certain parameters being life and taking steps to pass go and trying to keep out of jail.
There are infinite rules to simply being, even rolling the dice is like taking a chance on your next move, but you also have the freewill to sit at start and never take a risk, but then, that's not really living, that's just existing.
Stop playing the character of a coward in life and Fuckin roll the damn dice already! What in the Hell are you afraid of?
Well said. I miss the days of Alien's cowardice on this forum.
Quote from: ConservativeInCT on November 18, 2019, 05:23:21 AM
Well said. I miss the days of Alien's cowardice on this forum.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Thanks.
Quote from: Solar on November 18, 2019, 09:54:46 AM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Thanks.
No, thank you!! :thumbup: :thumbup:
Quote from: s3779m on November 21, 2019, 04:13:17 AM
No, thank you!! :thumbup: :thumbup:
One Billion to one, he's still pondering the dice as he awaits his next govt check.
Quote from: Solar on November 21, 2019, 05:29:51 AM
One Billion to one, he's still pondering the dice as he awaits his next govt check.
I would like to think Solar spanked him so bad he changed his life and is out winning :lol: :lol: But then again, I've always been a optimist.
Quote from: ConservativeInCT on November 21, 2019, 05:44:18 AM
I would like to think Solar spanked him so bad he changed his life and is out winning :lol: :lol: But then again, I've always been a optimist.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I so wish that were the case, but he is a true coward always in search of a sympathetic ear. The guy even started a blog full of his ramblings/excuses.
Claims everyone has failed "HIM", that somehow it's our fault he won't accept a menial job, that it's somehow beneath him to bus tables, yet go to any restaurant and you'll find someone happy to do the work.
I remember starting out looking for a job and my friends came over all excited they were busting tables at a local pizza joint.
I sooo badly wanted that job, but they got the only two openings. There's just something about supporting yourself that is so fulfilling.
Quote from: ConservativeInCT on November 18, 2019, 05:23:21 AM
Well said. I miss the days of Alien's cowardice on this forum.
Whatever happened to ol alienhead anyways? was he banned or did he just diappear? i miss jousting with him as he would sometimes admit he was wrong and see things a different way. I do think he had some kinda mental disorder which caused him to take things way to literally. he just came across as a recluse who has been damaged by the lefts social engineering, prbly in his childhood. Maybe some day he will come back and try and learn the truth. Like Frodo and Bilbo in regards to Gollum, I felt a certain pity for him and want to help him. Maybe he just needs some time in the school of hard knocks for awhile.
Quote from: Solar on November 21, 2019, 06:13:31 AM
I so wish that were the case, but he is a true coward always in search of a sympathetic ear. The guy even started a blog full of his ramblings/excuses.
If there are true cowards then there must be false cowards. A false coward is someone who pretends to be a true coward but is brave and a liar.
So, would you want me to be a true coward or a false coward therefore making me a true liar?
QuoteClaims everyone has failed "HIM", that somehow it's our fault he won't accept a menial job, that it's somehow beneath him to bus tables, yet go to any restaurant and you'll find someone happy to do the work.
I don't blame any one person. I blame the mechanism and the aspects of myself that does not mesh with that mechanism.
Quote from: Solar on November 21, 2019, 06:13:31 AM
I remember starting out looking for a job and my friends came over all excited they were busting tables at a local pizza joint.
I don't see what is so exciting about busting tables. What is the thrill from that? I can understand the thrill of making money but getting a thrill of busting tables, I don't get.
I've been to restaurants including pizza joints and see how they have to bust tables and how they have to carry stuff.
I don't have the motor coordination or the speed to do it. If I had to carry the stuff the way they did it I would walk extremely slow and more then likely would drop it.
And, if it's a noisy atmosphere you can forget it.
Quote from: Solar on November 21, 2019, 06:13:31 AM
I sooo badly wanted that job, but they got the only two openings. There's just something about supporting yourself that is so fulfilling.
I'm glad you were component to do it.
Quote from: T Hunt on November 24, 2019, 07:26:39 AM
Whatever happened to ol alienhead anyways?
right here
Quote from: T Hunt on November 24, 2019, 07:26:39 AM
was he banned or did he just diappear?
both
Quote from: T Hunt on November 24, 2019, 07:26:39 AM
i miss jousting with him as he would sometimes admit he was wrong and see things a different way.
When it makes logical sense to me or I see how my logic is wrong I will change my mind and admit where I'm wrong.
All you have to do is use logic with me.
I do think he had some kinda mental disorder which caused him to take things way to literally. he just came across as a recluse who has been damaged by the lefts social engineering, prbly in his childhood.[/quote]
It's not a mental disorder. It's neurological. I have Aspergers/Autism is what I have.
Quote from: T Hunt on November 24, 2019, 07:26:39 AM
Maybe some day he will come back and try and learn the truth.
Well, what is this truth that I should learn? I don't know how to know the truth if a. people have their own brand of truth and they say their truth is the Truth. b. Others refuse to use logic with me and explain things further with me c. how to determine which is true over all the others. d. if there are contradictions and conflicts within truths.
Quote from: T Hunt on November 24, 2019, 07:26:39 AM
Like Frodo and Bilbo in regards to Gollum, I felt a certain pity for him and want to help him. Maybe he just needs some time in the school of hard knocks for awhile.
All the school of hard knocks tells me is what and not the underlying reasoning and essence. It doesn't explain certain things that would require others to work out with me.
Quote from: ConservativeInCT on November 21, 2019, 05:44:18 AM
I would like to think Solar spanked him so bad he changed his life and is out winning :lol: :lol: But then again, I've always been a optimist.
If some people lose then some of them will win.
If 1/0 equals undefined as an answer then 1/0 has defined answer which is undefined.
And, an optimist is a pessimist against pessimism. And, he is negative against his own negativity. He is negative against sin.
A person who accepts and believes he is entitled to nothing does not believe he is entitled to refuse to commit murder and not to refuse to commit murder at the same time.
And, if emptiness is the lack of all things then can we lack emptiness?
OH MY hear come the BS, of poor me I can't do anything.
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-rLHpEHrXcWg%2FTskKIQGKmOI%2FAAAAAAAABgQ%2FCkY1WGbvazs%2Fs1600%2Fyawn.png&hash=10803910a8bc5d726467c968646451244f5eaec4)
Quote from: walkstall on November 29, 2019, 06:08:23 AM
OH MY hear come the BS, of poor me I can't do anything.
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-rLHpEHrXcWg%2FTskKIQGKmOI%2FAAAAAAAABgQ%2FCkY1WGbvazs%2Fs1600%2Fyawn.png&hash=10803910a8bc5d726467c968646451244f5eaec4)
So, you and solar want me to lie, fake, and pretend to employers I can do jobs deep down in my gut I can't do?
Do I be a true coward and be a leech (as you call me) or do I be a false coward and lie, get caught and tossed on my ass by the employer and then known as a liar?
So, does this mean you guys value frauds and liars over leeches?
Quote from: alienhand on November 29, 2019, 06:46:49 AM
So, you and solar want me to lie, fake, and pretend to employers I can do jobs deep down in my gut I can't do?
Do I be a true coward and be a leech (as you call me) or do I be a false coward and lie, get caught and tossed on my ass by the employer and then known as a liar?
So, does this mean you guys value frauds and liars over leeches?
For starters, stop using cliche's, if you have something to say, just say it. If you can't hold a job, there you said it, what more do you want others to say about it? You can be whatever you want, coward, leech, liar, or any other description you want, you're the one to live with it. You seem to have your act together enough to criticize some of the jobs that are out there are ""I don't see what is so exciting about busting tables. What is the thrill from that? I can understand the thrill of making money but getting a thrill of busting tables, I don't get."" but want others to understand why you can not get the job of your choice. Sorry, that's not up to anyone else.
Quote from: s3779m on November 29, 2019, 08:31:23 AM
For starters, stop using cliche's, if you have something to say, just say it. If you can't hold a job, there you said it, what more do you want others to say about it? You can be whatever you want, coward, leech, liar, or any other description you want, you're the one to live with it. You seem to have your act together enough to criticize some of the jobs that are out there are ""I don't see what is so exciting about busting tables. What is the thrill from that? I can understand the thrill of making money but getting a thrill of busting tables, I don't get."" but want others to understand why you can not get the job of your choice. Sorry, that's not up to anyone else.
1. I didn't use clichés.
2. I did say it.
3. I didn't criticize but merely stated my lack of understanding. And, even if it was a criticism it would've been "the excitement of busting tables" not busting tables. Big difference! I literally wish to know how someone can be excited by it.
4. "but want others to understand why you can not get the job of your choice. Sorry, that's not up to anyone else." To these others... That's fine but let's be fair about it. Don't get upset, pissed off, stomp your feet, bitch about how life is unfair b/c you all have to pay an imagined amount of your money to pay for my SSDI which is not so. And, even if it was real then the whole life isn't fair logic applies to you just as it applies to me.
In other words since intelligent discourse does not work with you guys, no rationality is possible, and you guys like to jerk each other off here is what I will say to you hypocritical, piece of shit assholes and you can give me that perm ban.
Shut the fuck up, accept that life is not fair like I and others are expected to and pay your fucking taxes.
Quote from: alienhand on November 29, 2019, 09:26:33 AM
1. I didn't use clichés.
2. I did say it.
3. I didn't criticize but merely stated my lack of understanding. And, even if it was a criticism it would've been "the excitement of busting tables" not busting tables. Big difference! I literally wish to know how someone can be excited by it.
4. "but want others to understand why you can not get the job of your choice. Sorry, that's not up to anyone else." To these others... That's fine but let's be fair about it. Don't get upset, pissed off, stomp your feet, bitch about how life is unfair b/c you all have to pay an imagined amount of your money to pay for my SSDI which is not so. And, even if it was real then the whole life isn't fair logic applies to you just as it applies to me.
In other words since intelligent discourse does not work with you guys, no rationality is possible, and you guys like to jerk each other off here is what I will say to you hypocritical, piece of shit assholes and you can give me that perm ban.
Shut the fuck up, accept that life is not fair like I and others are expected to and pay your fucking taxes.
Guess again.
Quote from: alienhand on November 29, 2019, 05:58:13 AM
If some people lose then some of them will win.
If 1/0 equals undefined as an answer then 1/0 has defined answer which is undefined.
And, an optimist is a pessimist against pessimism. And, he is negative against his own negativity. He is negative against sin.
A person who accepts and believes he is entitled to nothing does not believe he is entitled to refuse to commit murder and not to refuse to commit murder at the same time.
And, if emptiness is the lack of all things then can we lack emptiness?
Welcome back Alienhand. Your nonsense and self-aggrandizing bullshit has been missed
Parents, if you have a child on the Autism Spectrum claim them disability, start a trust fund, start your own business and hire them yourself.
If you have them go out for employment more then likely they're not going to get your child and feel no obligation to do so. It won't work and they won't mesh.
And, they'll be dealing with shits like these guys on here who won't hire them or will do everything to get rid of them.
They're neither rational and they will not give two shits.
These are the sorts of people who believe in a God who would leave out rat poison and tell a child not to drink it and expecting a child not to drink it.
These are the sorts of people who believe in a God who claims to love a cheerful giver but will send a person to hell if he doesn't give.
What these guys want is a number of things to go back to the closet and politics to go back to DC.
But, what these guys never tell you is those like myself would've been chucked into asylums and into straight jackets. Solar and company want the good old days back with the good ole boy network. But, where were the good ole days for autistics like myself? Where were they during the time of Salem and the witch hangings?
Quote from: alienhand on November 30, 2019, 12:43:04 AM
What these guys want is a number of things to go back to the closet and politics to go back to DC.
But, what these guys never tell you is those like myself would've been chucked into asylums and into straight jackets. Solar and company want the good old days back with the good ole boy network. But, where were the good ole days for autistics like myself? Where were they during the time of Salem and the witch hangings?
You historically Ignorant Dumb Ass! In many cases Churches took people in, they'd be given a job to fit their skills, the community would embrace them and see to it their needs were met.
That's the history the left hates because they despise the idea of the church and community, they only believe in govt and theft via tax so they can claim it was they, the leftist that care.
Truth ism they used govt to steal other peoples money so they could buy constituents like you too stupid to see the trap they set for you and made you a dependent of Govt.
How's it feel to be a slave of Govt?
By the way, you were banned, so stay the Fuck out and don't come back!
alienhand
QuoteParents, if you have a child on the Autism Spectrum claim them disability, start a trust fund, start your own business and hire them yourself.
Well, I have an Aspie Daughter of 32 years. She also suffers Anxiety disorder. I do understand your frustration. She is now attempting to start a home based job, because she has yet to be able to pass her Driver's Test for her license. She, too, would like to play "victim" as you seem to do. I think it is a natural reaction to the misunderstandings, presented by neurotypicals.
QuoteIf you have them go out for employment more then likely they're not going to get your child and feel no obligation to do so. It won't work and they won't mesh.
Our Daughter has had no problem getting hired, but her anxiety often causes her to "melt down", which employers cannot tolerate, understandably.
QuoteAnd, they'll be dealing with shits like these guys on here who won't hire them or will do everything to get rid of them.
I think you'll find there are certain tech companies that hire autistics, as a policy, because their intelligence and focus, when controlled, as an asset to their company.
QuoteThey're neither rational and they will not give two shits.
People like that are typically just as unfeeling toward other employees. I am not here to stroke your ego, cause I don't even do that at home. It is STILL up to you, to better yourself. You can do it, as other Autistics have done. You need to focus on a job you can do, and seek out the proper training. For example, our daughter has taught herself to speak two additional languages, as well as Sign Language. I have tried desperately to convince her to become an interpreter. She would need some formal training in order to be proficient at it. I also have tried to convince her to learn transcription. She types over 100 wpm.
I am sure you have skills, you could use in a home based or small business of your own. You just gotta want to.
QuoteThese are the sorts of people who believe in a God who would leave out rat poison and tell a child not to drink it and expecting a child not to drink it.
A bit far fetched, if you ask me. C'mon, be real.
QuoteThese are the sorts of people who believe in a God who claims to love a cheerful giver but will send a person to hell if he doesn't give.
My daughter is also given to hyperbole. But, you do remind me of her. These folks here have no point of reference to help them understand. They are taking you at "face value" according to things you say. And as we have seen here, they have a case that can be made. That said, I sympathize with your plight, and will tell you the same as I tell my lovely daughter. Don't blame anyone if you are not willing to do "whatever it takes" to succeed. Yes, I do understand, and I do care. But, ultimately, the world is an unfair place, not expressly designed to allow for Autism. Autism is misunderstood. It is not fair to you, but it is reality. You must deal with reality, and the worst thing you can do, is blame neurotypicals, when they don't understand. It is ultimately up to you.
Only through meaningful dialogue, can you help others understand you. I am here, so PM me if you need to talk. Believe it or not, I can be your friend.