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Author Topic: Everything happens for a reason  (Read 2407 times)

Offline alienhand

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Everything happens for a reason
« on: July 13, 2019, 12:12:05 AM »
What does everything happens for a reason even mean?  If everything happens for a reason then how do any of us have free will and control over our own destinies?  Were those who committed murder in our past, committing murder in the now and will commit murder in the future meant to commit murder?  Were those who were murdered meant to die at that particular point?

Was Jesus meant to die on the cross when he did?  Was it ordained that he would die on the cross?  If Judas had no other choice but to betray Jesus then how did Judas sin?  How did he betray anyone at all?  Didn't Judas serve his purpose?

I don't get it.  How does free will, choice, personal responsibility coincide with everything happening for a reason?

Am I misunderstanding something somewhere?



« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 12:21:14 AM by alienhand »

Offline midcan5

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Re: Everything happens for a reason
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2019, 04:54:07 AM »
A fascinating question, of course everything happens for a reason for if nothing preceded everything how would there be something. You have to read Galen Strawson sometime or check out his writings and YouTubes. See link below.

Your comment on Judas seems to indicate you are doubting religion and wondering about free will and determinism. Free will is a tough sell as we do not at any time select our birth or many other items that make us us. We are individuals who managed to be out of twenty million possibilities this person. And consider too a quote I like since you mention Judas, 'How can the Devil be evil if he punishes people who do evil things?' 

But I'd argue there is brief or slim chance and hope that we think hard enough or deep enough to know free will is imaginary but so is determinism. I'll see what others say.

"It struck me as an operational way to define free will, in a way that allowed you to reconcile free will with determinism. The system is deterministic, but you can’t say what it’s going to do next."  James Gleick 'Chaos'

https://believermag.com/an-interview-with-galen-strawson/

"Free will is the thing you have to have if you're going to be responsible in this all-or-nothing way. That's what I mean by free will. That's what I think we haven't got and can't have."  Galen Strawson

Working class American, husband, father, grandpa, veteran, and still high on life.

Offline Solar

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Re: Everything happens for a reason
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2019, 06:47:57 AM »
What does everything happens for a reason even mean?  If everything happens for a reason then how do any of us have free will and control over our own destinies?  Were those who committed murder in our past, committing murder in the now and will commit murder in the future meant to commit murder?  Were those who were murdered meant to die at that particular point?

Was Jesus meant to die on the cross when he did?  Was it ordained that he would die on the cross?  If Judas had no other choice but to betray Jesus then how did Judas sin?  How did he betray anyone at all?  Didn't Judas serve his purpose?

I don't get it.  How does free will, choice, personal responsibility coincide with everything happening for a reason?

Am I misunderstanding something somewhere?
Life is akin to a board game with certain parameters being life and taking steps to pass go and trying to keep out of jail.
There are infinite rules to simply being, even rolling the dice is like taking a chance on your next move, but you also have the freewill to sit at start and never take a risk, but then, that's not really living, that's just existing.
Stop playing the character of a coward in life and Fuckin roll the damn dice already! What in the Hell are you afraid of?
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Offline Sick Of Silence

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Re: Everything happens for a reason
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2019, 08:12:11 AM »
Everything happens for a reason: if you get dumped by your girlfriend, and you meet a better girl when you are out and about, it's fate. If you didn't get dumped, you would not have been in that situation to meet the new girl. It happened for a reason.
Social Media are multi-national billion dollar corporations with foreign investors that are going unchecked with the power to effect our election process.

"Book burnings" have evolved into "de-plat forming". Its the same principles behind both: to eliminate accessible knowledge.

Offline milos

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Re: Everything happens for a reason
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2019, 11:03:56 AM »
What does everything happens for a reason even mean?  If everything happens for a reason then how do any of us have free will and control over our own destinies?  Were those who committed murder in our past, committing murder in the now and will commit murder in the future meant to commit murder?  Were those who were murdered meant to die at that particular point?

Was Jesus meant to die on the cross when he did?  Was it ordained that he would die on the cross?  If Judas had no other choice but to betray Jesus then how did Judas sin?  How did he betray anyone at all?  Didn't Judas serve his purpose?

I don't get it.  How does free will, choice, personal responsibility coincide with everything happening for a reason?

Am I misunderstanding something somewhere?

The question of free will bothers me too very much. Once when I was young, I thought free will meant we can completely design our lives. But as I grow older, I realised there is very little we can actually do or change, if anything at all. God has created us with certain personality and predetermined behavior, and so what can we change or do ourselves? Nothing, really. That is why Jesus said we should hate the sin but not the sinner. Free will means very little, and that is that we are responsible for our deeds, but that doesn't mean that we have created our deeds. That is why the human ego is an illusion.

Look at the John Lennon's very underestimated song "All You Need Is Love". The lyrics are perfectly answering to your inquiries. Especially these ones.

Nothing you can do, but you can learn how to be you in time. It's easy. All you need is love.

There's nothing you can do, but you can learn how to be the best version of yourself. And what you need is love to God and love to other people and love to yourself. That is why God has created the world.
"Walking is the best possible exercise. Habituate yourself to walk very far." - Thomas Jefferson

Offline alienhand

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Re: Everything happens for a reason
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2019, 11:42:05 AM »
The question of free will bothers me too very much. Once when I was young, I thought free will meant we can completely design our lives. But as I grow older, I realised there is very little we can actually do or change, if anything at all. God has created us with certain personality and predetermined behavior, and so what can we change or do ourselves? Nothing, really. That is why Jesus said we should hate the sin but not the sinner. Free will means very little, and that is that we are responsible for our deeds, but that doesn't mean that we have created our deeds. That is why the human ego is an illusion.

Look at the John Lennon's very underestimated song "All You Need Is Love". The lyrics are perfectly answering to your inquiries. Especially these ones.

Nothing you can do, but you can learn how to be you in time. It's easy. All you need is love.

There's nothing you can do, but you can learn how to be the best version of yourself. And what you need is love to God and love to other people and love to yourself. That is why God has created the world.

You know what Milos?   I'm going to meditate on this. 

But, God created us b/c he wanted something to give out his love to.

Offline alienhand

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Re: Everything happens for a reason
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2019, 11:30:07 PM »
Life is akin to a board game with certain parameters being life and taking steps to pass go and trying to keep out of jail.
There are infinite rules to simply being, even rolling the dice is like taking a chance on your next move, but you also have the freewill to sit at start and never take a risk, but then, that's not really living, that's just existing.
Stop playing the character of a coward in life and Fuckin roll the damn dice already! What in the Hell are you afraid of?

Ok Solar I'm going to do the same for you as I do walkstall.  Anytime, I'm told that I'm on welfare, told to sack up, roll the dice, take personal responsibility for my life, etc, etc, etc when I don't know how I will say:

Will you be my Henry Higgins from My Fair Lady and/or Pygmalion?

This goes for anyone.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 11:52:57 PM by alienhand »

Offline Rotwang

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Re: Everything happens for a reason
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2019, 06:09:40 PM »
Well, I do know Jesus put more emphasis on expressing regret for sin than even in avoiding it altogether.

If recognizing where I have failed, and being sorry for those failings is what Jesus is looking for, I may be ok.

The older I get, it seems I spend more time regretting than actually accomplishing anything.

Offline tiny1

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Re: Everything happens for a reason
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2019, 01:38:05 PM »
What does everything happens for a reason even mean?  If everything happens for a reason then how do any of us have free will and control over our own destinies?  Were those who committed murder in our past, committing murder in the now and will commit murder in the future meant to commit murder?  Were those who were murdered meant to die at that particular point?

Was Jesus meant to die on the cross when he did?  Was it ordained that he would die on the cross?  If Judas had no other choice but to betray Jesus then how did Judas sin?  How did he betray anyone at all?  Didn't Judas serve his purpose?

I don't get it.  How does free will, choice, personal responsibility coincide with everything happening for a reason?

Am I misunderstanding something somewhere?

I do not recall the Bible advocating that Everything happens for a reason.  It does say God had Foreknowledge of this reality, and that He knew us from the beginning of time.
God's Will is the determiner for the reasoning of all things.  That does not mean that if you break your leg, it was to serve God's Purpose.  The REASON you broke your leg, is that you were possibly careless.
I think it inspires us to look to the positive in the event that something bad happens to us.  Sometimes, it is God's Love for us that works wonders at a time of need.  His Blessings appear to be Miracles, to us.
I do not believe in Fate.  I do not believe in Predisposition.  I believe God's way is Causal and Effective.  If you cause it, it will affect you.

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Re: Everything happens for a reason
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2019, 04:34:55 AM »
I do not recall the Bible advocating that Everything happens for a reason.  It does say God had Foreknowledge of this reality, and that He knew us from the beginning of time.
God's Will is the determiner for the reasoning of all things.  That does not mean that if you break your leg, it was to serve God's Purpose.  The REASON you broke your leg, is that you were possibly careless.
I think it inspires us to look to the positive in the event that something bad happens to us.  Sometimes, it is God's Love for us that works wonders at a time of need.  His Blessings appear to be Miracles, to us.
I do not believe in Fate.  I do not believe in Predisposition.  I believe God's way is Causal and Effective.  If you cause it, it will affect you.
:thumbup:

Offline cynical1

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Re: Everything happens for a reason
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2019, 11:26:57 AM »
What does everything happens for a reason even mean?  If everything happens for a reason then how do any of us have free will and control over our own destinies?  Were those who committed murder in our past, committing murder in the now and will commit murder in the future meant to commit murder?  Were those who were murdered meant to die at that particular point?

Was Jesus meant to die on the cross when he did?  Was it ordained that he would die on the cross?  If Judas had no other choice but to betray Jesus then how did Judas sin?  How did he betray anyone at all?  Didn't Judas serve his purpose?

I don't get it.  How does free will, choice, personal responsibility coincide with everything happening for a reason?

Am I misunderstanding something somewhere?
I have had the same thoughts. As to Judas, maybe he was destined to betray Jesus (aren't we all? we are all sinners...) but he also was destined to have the option of accepting Christ's forgiveness and he chose not to, so that was where free will comes in..

does that help?

Offline ConservativeInCT

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Re: Everything happens for a reason
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2019, 05:23:21 AM »
Life is akin to a board game with certain parameters being life and taking steps to pass go and trying to keep out of jail.
There are infinite rules to simply being, even rolling the dice is like taking a chance on your next move, but you also have the freewill to sit at start and never take a risk, but then, that's not really living, that's just existing.
Stop playing the character of a coward in life and Fuckin roll the damn dice already! What in the Hell are you afraid of?

Well said. I miss the days of Alien's cowardice on this forum.

Offline Solar

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Re: Everything happens for a reason
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2019, 09:54:46 AM »
Well said. I miss the days of Alien's cowardice on this forum.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks.
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Online Possum

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Re: Everything happens for a reason
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2019, 04:13:17 AM »

Offline Solar

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Re: Everything happens for a reason
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2019, 05:29:51 AM »
No, thank you!! :thumbup: :thumbup:
One Billion to one, he's still pondering the dice as he awaits his next govt check.
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