Dr Adrian Rogers,1931 You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it

[walkstall]

Adrian Pierce Rogers served three terms as president of the Southern Baptist Convention (1979–1980 and 1986–1988). He was also a Southern Baptist pastor.

"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for. That my dear friend is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it"

Dr Adrian Rodgers
1931

[cubedemon]

Adrian Pierce Rogers served three terms as president of the Southern Baptist Convention (1979–1980 and 1986–1988). He was also a Southern Baptist pastor.

"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for. That my dear friend is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it"

Dr Adrian Rodgers
1931

Question(s) for you my friend.

So, really the problem with welfare, etc is that person receiving the benefits is receiving them for anything?   

I was just thinking.  What if the person receiving the benefits went out and did volunteer work like at a church, charitable organizations, etc?   Would this be a lot better in your eyes or would you still not like it?

Another question or more of an idea.  Why not revamp the program in which the person has to volunteer somewhere and if they can't find anywhere to volunteer the welfare office or whomever picks the place?   If one is on welfare or food stamps, make voluntary compulsory for a minimal number of hours?   

What do you think?   Problem Solved?

[Solar]

Question(s) for you my friend.

So, really the problem with welfare, etc is that person receiving the benefits is receiving them for anything?   

I was just thinking.  What if the person receiving the benefits went out and did volunteer work like at a church, charitable organizations, etc?   Would this be a lot better in your eyes or would you still not like it?

Another question or more of an idea.  Why not revamp the program in which the person has to volunteer somewhere and if they can't find anywhere to volunteer the welfare office or whomever picks the place?   If one is on welfare or food stamps, make voluntary compulsory for a minimal number of hours?   

What do you think?   Problem Solved?

Assistance was never meant for anything more than to "Assist" the individual, meaning help them get through a bad patch of employment.
Six months at the maximum, bet never meant as total income as it has become.

Most people don't have an issue with a mother getting a little help, they do have a problem with generational welfare, free housing, cell phones, paid utilities.
Slaves to the Federal Teat, the taxpayer.

[walkstall]

Question(s) for you my friend.

So, really the problem with welfare, etc is that person receiving the benefits is receiving them for anything?   

I was just thinking.  What if the person receiving the benefits went out and did volunteer work like at a church, charitable organizations, etc?   Would this be a lot better in your eyes or would you still not like it?

Another question or more of an idea.  Why not revamp the program in which the person has to volunteer somewhere and if they can't find anywhere to volunteer the welfare office or whomever picks the place?   If one is on welfare or food stamps, make voluntary compulsory for a minimal number of hours?   

What do you think?   Problem Solved?

I DON'T have a problem helping people that truly need a helping hand.  That was been done long before welfare and food stamps.  I also don't have a problem keep people that can not truly work. 

I am not a well educated person.  But I worked and paid for everything in my life.  In over 65 years of work I was not out of a job longer then a week, and that was only one time.  I decided I need some time off.   

I can tell you right now that if your able to work and are not working then it your own damn fault.  Move if you have to, there work out there. 

As my good wife said when I ask her what was the first thing she would like.  She said a sewing machine.  I said what! no washer and dryer.  She said no, with a sewing machine I can fix and make things.  I can wash thing by hand and hang them out to dry.   The next day I paid cash for a sewing machine.  Also I paid cash for a washer and dryer.  But it took a week before we could get the ones she liked.   You learn to live with in your means and build as your go.

Not like the kids now, I must have it all right now!!!

[supsalemgr]

Question(s) for you my friend.

So, really the problem with welfare, etc is that person receiving the benefits is receiving them for anything?   

I was just thinking.  What if the person receiving the benefits went out and did volunteer work like at a church, charitable organizations, etc?   Would this be a lot better in your eyes or would you still not like it?

Another question or more of an idea.  Why not revamp the program in which the person has to volunteer somewhere and if they can't find anywhere to volunteer the welfare office or whomever picks the place?   If one is on welfare or food stamps, make voluntary compulsory for a minimal number of hours?   

What do you think?   Problem Solved?

As others have stated, I have no problem helping someone temporarily until they get something that gets them off welfare. That being said, I do believe if a person is able bodied they owe the payor 40 hours a week. That would provide a benefit for both the provider and receiver. Also, it would serve as motivation for the receiver to look for something that would remove them from the welfare rolls.

[kroz]

The younger generation just doesn't "get it".   

Life is suppose to be tough!!  That is what builds character and a strong work ethic.

Todays youth expect to walk through a door into prosperity... no sweat, no pain!

I believe in helping people for a short period but then they must stretch their wings and fly!

We have made things so easy that they are not motivated.

[cubedemon]

The younger generation just doesn't "get it".   

Life is suppose to be tough!!  That is what builds character and a strong work ethic.

Todays youth expect to walk through a door into prosperity... no sweat, no pain!

I believe in helping people for a short period but then they must stretch their wings and fly!

We have made things so easy that they are not motivated.

This is a response not just to you Kroz but to everyone of the older generation.  The thing is that everyone here is operating under certain assumptions which may have some truth to them but they're not totally true.   Let's look at these assumptions. 

a.   Hard Work is Necessary and Sufficient to Build Character - This may be true in some cases but I have to question, is one's character derived from Hard Work or is Character built in spite of hard work and in fact the template for good character may have already existed.   If Hard Work is necessary then why do we have people who rise to the top yet they're still corrupt?   How many business and political scandals do we keep hearing about?  By your own logic those who are at the top would be angels and saints.  Yet, this is not so.   Why is this?   How does hard work always build character?  Why can't the unfairness of life corrupt a man as well?   

b.  Hard Work treated as an intrinsic value instead of considering it as an extrinsic value.  Hard Work seems to be valued for its own sake without any rhyme or reason to it by the older generation.  I do not agree with this mindset.   To me, hard work has to serve an extrinsic purpose.  For example, why did farmers in the days of yore work on farms and why did shepherds do what they did?  For them, it was necessary for them to eat.   Hard Work served a purpose and a place.   Hard Work produced something of extrinsic value.  There is another thing that hard work accomplishes.   To achieve something one wants to achieve.   For example, we have the fictional classic star trek with captain kirk.   He and his crew wanted to see what was out there.  So, they worked hard and working hard had a purpose.   Let's say one had a big field to plow.   If one can obtain a tractor or another device that could cut one's work down in half and give more time for contemplation and reflection why wouldn't one do so?  Why wouldn't we work hard in an intelligent, rational and smart way to achieve a purpose that is extrinsic and something that brings personal fulfillment?   Why work for work's sake?

c.   Hasty Generalization of Today's Youth - Today's youth come in many different shapes and different sizes.   Not all of them had and has an easy life.   Some come from poorer backgrounds in which some did have to take on adult responsibilities at an early age.

d.  Narcissistic Youth (may be based in truth but not totally) - Why are today's youth entitled and narcissistic?   What the older generation fails to do is to capture the full story.   For a certain subgroup (middle class, upper class, some poor).  In today's society the narrative is to push the youth down the college pipeline.   They were told that if they didn't work hard, graduate high school and go to college they would have no future and they would be working at McDonalds. 

Here are a number of issues I have with the older generation's argument about Narcissistic youth.   

i.   It is the older generation who set the golden path and set the path at the time.  The path the young ones went on was the only path they knew and understood.   What does this mean?   For the youth or at least a number of them, hard work means exactly what was defined to them.   

ii.  In addition, the same thing applies to the concept of earning.  From their point of view, a number of college graduates feel and believe, because of what they were conditioned to believe, that they did earn a job in their respective fields and the middle class lifestyle that comes with it by the merit of working hard, graduating high school, college and getting that degree. 

iii.  As a corollary to claim that kids today have a sense of entitlement and are narcissistic one has to ask what an entitlement mentality is.   The definition is that one believes that one is owed things that are unearned and undeserved privileges and rights.    For at least college grads, would you say that a sense of entitlement was their issue.  No, I do not believe so because they don't feel that they are owed things that are unearned and undeserved but feel that they were cheated from what they did earn and deserve. 

iv.   https://whyifailedinamerica1.wordpress.com/2015/09/03/working-at-mcdonalds-hallmark-of-failure-and-shame/   Here is what I wrote here as well and this explains Kim in my opinion .    The reason she and others feel embarrassed at working at McDonalds or the cafeteria is that they were conditioned to feel shame.  For them and even myself (I'm sorry to say)  it is a hallmark of shame and failure.   Because of my aspergers which gives me a more black and white, rigid mindset it is even more difficult for me to change this within myself.     For those who are able to do so, then do so. 

e.   Please, I implore you guys to read what I say and to hearken onto my words with a rational and open mind and please don't attack my character nor my attitude and please read the parable of the cave by Plato.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave

Imagine being constrained to a dark cave for all of one's life to a wall and the only thing one understands is shadows.   

[Solar]

This is a response not just to you Kroz but to everyone of the older generation.  The thing is that everyone here is operating under certain assumptions which may have some truth to them but they're not totally true.   Let's look at these assumptions. 

a.   Hard Work is Necessary and Sufficient to Build Character - This may be true in some cases but I have to question, is one's character derived from Hard Work or is Character built in spite of hard work and in fact the template for good character may have already existed.   If Hard Work is necessary then why do we have people who rise to the top yet they're still corrupt?   How many business and political scandals do we keep hearing about?  By your own logic those who are at the top would be angels and saints.  Yet, this is not so.   Why is this?   How does hard work always build character?  Why can't the unfairness of life corrupt a man as well?   

Define hard work?
What most here define as hard work, is not having idle time for meaningles nonsense, or the time to concern ones self with the private matters of their neighbor unless it's infringing on their Liberties.

b.  Hard Work treated as an intrinsic value instead of considering it as an extrinsic value.  Hard Work seems to be valued for its own sake without any rhyme or reason to it by the older generation.  I do not agree with this mindset.   To me, hard work has to serve an extrinsic purpose.  For example, why did farmers in the days of yore work on farms and why did shepherds do what they did?  For them, it was necessary for them to eat.   Hard Work served a purpose and a place.   Hard Work produced something of extrinsic value.  There is another thing that hard work accomplishes.   To achieve something one wants to achieve.   For example, we have the fictional classic star trek with captain kirk.   He and his crew wanted to see what was out there.  So, they worked hard and working hard had a purpose.   Let's say one had a big field to plow.   If one can obtain a tractor or another device that could cut one's work down in half and give more time for contemplation and reflection why wouldn't one do so?  Why wouldn't we work hard in an intelligent, rational and smart way to achieve a purpose that is extrinsic and something that brings personal fulfillment?   Why work for work's sake?

Why do the retired take up hobbies that others deem as work?
Because idle time is self defeating. Man was designed to meet and beat goals, remove all obstacles from mans path, and what is his purpose in life?
Hard work in and by itself is fulfillment.

c.   Hasty Generalization of Today's Youth - Today's youth come in many different shapes and different sizes.   Not all of them had and has an easy life.   Some come from poorer backgrounds in which some did have to take on adult responsibilities at an early age.

You just described life memoriam.

d.  Narcissistic Youth (may be based in truth but not totally) - Why are today's youth entitled and narcissistic?   What the older generation fails to do is to capture the full story.   For a certain subgroup (middle class, upper class, some poor).  In today's society the narrative is to push the youth down the college pipeline.   They were told that if they didn't work hard, graduate high school and go to college they would have no future and they would be working at McDonalds.

Here are a number of issues I have with the older generation's argument about Narcissistic youth.   

i.   It is the older generation who set the golden path and set the path at the time.  The path the young ones went on was the only path they knew and understood.   What does this mean?   For the youth or at least a number of them, hard work means exactly what was defined to them.   

ii.  In addition, the same thing applies to the concept of earning.  From their point of view, a number of college graduates feel and believe, because of what they were conditioned to believe, that they did earn a job in their respective fields and the middle class lifestyle that comes with it by the merit of working hard, graduating high school, college and getting that degree. 

iii.  As a corollary to claim that kids today have a sense of entitlement and are narcissistic one has to ask what an entitlement mentality is.   The definition is that one believes that one is owed things that are unearned and undeserved privileges and rights.    For at least college grads, would you say that a sense of entitlement was their issue.  No, I do not believe so because they don't feel that they are owed things that are unearned and undeserved but feel that they were cheated from what they did earn and deserve. 

No, they were lied to, pure and simple.

iv.   https://whyifailedinamerica1.wordpress.com/2015/09/03/working-at-mcdonalds-hallmark-of-failure-and-shame/   Here is what I wrote here as well and this explains Kim in my opinion .    The reason she and others feel embarrassed at working at McDonalds or the cafeteria is that they were conditioned to feel shame.  For them and even myself (I'm sorry to say)  it is a hallmark of shame and failure.   Because of my aspergers which gives me a more black and white, rigid mindset it is even more difficult for me to change this within myself.     For those who are able to do so, then do so. 

e.   Please, I implore you guys to read what I say and to hearken onto my words with a rational and open mind and please don't attack my character nor my attitude and please read the parable of the cave by Plato.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave

Imagine being constrained to a dark cave for all of one's life to a wall and the only thing one understands is shadows.

You're right, the left shamed the kids into believing that flipping burgers is a meaningless dead end job.
Problem is, they again were lied to, all kids need an entry level job, one that creates work ethic and skills.
There is nothing wrong with flipping burgers or mopping floors, especially when it opens doors for them.

I remember an Russian immigrant that was hired by a local McDonalds as a janitor in the early 70s, he didn't speak a lick of English, I know, I tried to talk to him.

A year later he came up and talked to me and explained how he appreciated my attempt to reach out to him because most had ignored him.
He went on to explain his goal of one day owning that particular restaurant. (to think, I thought he was full of BS)

He went on to McDonald college where he learned every aspect of the business.
The last time I saw him, he not only owned that store, he went on to buy and build 7 altogether, and that was 1980.

That's my definition of hard work with a goal.

[kroz]

Excellent response, solar.

I didn't have time to address all of that.  I'm glad you did.

[Solar]

Excellent response, solar.

I didn't have time to address all of that.  I'm glad you did.

Thanks, but I doubt he'll get it.

[supsalemgr]

Thanks, but I doubt he'll get it.

All he posted in his long epistle was nothing more than a bunch of excuses for not working hard. As you said, he probably won't get it.

[Solar]

All he posted in his long epistle was nothing more than a bunch of excuses for not working hard. As you said, he probably won't get it.

Sad, isn't it? Which is why I asked he define hard work.

[cubedemon]

Define hard work?
What most here define as hard work, is not having idle time for meaningles nonsense, or the time to concern ones self with the private matters of their neighbor unless it's infringing on their Liberties.

Well, like it has been said.  It is relative.   Therein lies the problem.  I can think I'm working hard whereas you may not think so and vice versa.   What is meaningless to you may be meaningful to me.  Your red is my green and your green is my red. 

Why do the retired take up hobbies that others deem as work?
Because idle time is self defeating. Man was designed to meet and beat goals, remove all obstacles from mans path, and what is his purpose in life?
Hard work in and by itself is fulfillment.
You just described life memoriam.

I see what you are saying and can see it as having intrinsic value.   I didn't understand that before but now I do.  What I was talking about is work that comes like this.   One digs a hole and once he is done digging the hole he fills it up again.    He does that for  an amount of time.  The work has no purpose unless the person enjoys digging holes or is getting exercise. 

No, they were lied to, pure and simple

Agreed!   Here is what I do not grasp.   If they were lied to then why punish them?   Why is it their fault if they could not make a life for themselves because they followed information that was faulty and they trusted those who were in charge of them and deferred to their authority like they were supposed to do?   

You're right, the left shamed the kids into believing that flipping burgers is a meaningless dead end job.

Can you explain further please if you do not mind?   Thank You!

Problem is, they again were lied to, all kids need an entry level job, one that creates work ethic and skills.

Here are some things again that I don't grasp. 

a.  How does an entry level job create a work ethic when we have those who rise to the top and still lack character and a work ethic.   I believe Ken Lay is a good example.   He started out by mowing lawns and delivering newspapers.   During the Enron Scandal where was his work ethic and character?   If work truthfully created a work ethic then wouldn't those at the top who work hard to achieve their positions have moral and virtuous character?   What about Bill Clinton?   Didn't he work hard to get to where he was at and start off somewhere?   He still received oral sex though from Monica Lawinsky.   So, not only did he cheat on his wife Hillary but did he not disrespect the oval office?   Didn't he lie under oath as well?  How did he develop a good work ethic and good character throughout his career?   

So, how does hard work always lead to good character?    Can you please explain further?

There is nothing wrong with flipping burgers or mopping floors, especially when it opens doors for them.

I remember an Russian immigrant that was hired by a local McDonalds as a janitor in the early 70s, he didn't speak a lick of English, I know, I tried to talk to him.

A year later he came up and talked to me and explained how he appreciated my attempt to reach out to him because most had ignored him.
He went on to explain his goal of one day owning that particular restaurant. (to think, I thought he was full of BS)

He went on to McDonald college where he learned every aspect of the business.
The last time I saw him, he not only owned that store, he went on to buy and build 7 altogether, and that was 1980.

Excellent story but it doesn't make any sense because it has missing specifics.   If this man came over in today's world without speaking a lick of English would McDonalds have hired him today?  Would he not need excellent communication skills?   If he didn't speak a lick of English then how was he able to work?  What was his initial job exactly?   Was he a janitor?  How was he able to do what his boss asked?   If he took people's orders then how was he able to understand what the customer was ordering?   Did he have someone to translate for him initially?   How did he learn to speak English?   Did he receive free tutoring?  Did he learn through osmosis? While he was working at McDonalds, did he have a part time shift or a full time shift?   How did he support himself with the salary he was making plus being able to afford things like medical care and insurance?   Did he have others in his life that assisted him and explain things to him or did he do this all on his own?   

That's my definition of hard work with a goal.

I do understand the point you were trying to make with the story.   The issue is it lacks certain specifics details like I asked about above.   It is like listening to a record or CD that skips multiple times in a row.  If I do come across as facetious or disrespectful I am not meaning to.  I really am lacking pertinent specifics to make your story coherent in my mind.

[cubedemon]

Thanks, but I doubt he'll get it.

There are some things I do get but there are things I really do not get.   That's why I'm here asking logical questions and presenting my points as to why certain things makes no sense to me.   I'm trying to get it.  It's that I'm lacking certain specifics and how certain specifics connect together.   Problem is, we're both speaking a different version of English which might as well be two different languages. 

[walkstall]

There are some things I do get but there are things I really do not get.   That's why I'm here asking logical questions and presenting my points as to why certain things makes no sense to me.   I'm trying to get it.  It's that I'm lacking certain specifics and how certain specifics connect together.   Problem is, we're both speaking a different version of English which might as well be two different languages.

Solar speaking Conservative.           cubedemon speaking liberal.