Dr Adrian Rogers,1931 You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it

Started by walkstall, September 15, 2015, 02:03:57 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

cubedemon

Quote from: supsalemgr on September 16, 2015, 10:44:34 AM
All he posted in his long epistle was nothing more than a bunch of excuses for not working hard. As you said, he probably won't get it.

This is another standard about American society I literally do not grasp nor understand.  Why is one not allowed to make excuses even if the excuses were based in sound logical reasoning? 

Let's say I'm a janitor working somewhere.   I'm told to clean a spill.   I go to get my equipment to clean including wet signs.  For whatever reason, the room the equipment is in is locked.   Only the boss has the key.  Yet, my boss is in a meeting and just started or he is nowhere to be found and I try looking and can't find him.  There are three options that I see to do.

a.  if the boss is in a meeting I could disturb the meeting.   Let's say I give the excuse that I couldn't clean cause the door was locked and he still was upset and I was making excuses for disturbing the meeting.  Then what?

b.   I could just leave the spill and do something else while I wait for the boss.  I put stuff around the spill to make sure no one slips.   Let's say he still gets upset and asks why I didn't clean up the spill?   I tell him he was in a meeting.   He says then you should've disturbed me.  There are no excuses for this?

c.   I could go out and buy equipment with my own money and return the stuff later.  I leave and boss accuses me of floundering about.  I tell him what I did and he said I should've came and got him.  I tell him he was in a meeting and says you should've disturbed me.  There are no excuses for this?   

So, how does one handle stuff like this and why are excuses wrong to give no matter the situation?   Again, I don't get it.
b.   

cubedemon

Quote from: walkstall on September 16, 2015, 12:03:04 PM
Solar speaking Conservative.           cubedemon speaking liberal.

I Disagree!   He is speaking Neurotypical English.   I am speaking Asperger English. 

http://web.archive.org/web/20080606024118/http://web.syr.edu/~jisincla/language.htm

Solar

Quote from: cubedemon on September 16, 2015, 11:48:51 AM
Well, like it has been said.  It is relative.   Therein lies the problem.  I can think I'm working hard whereas you may not think so and vice versa.   What is meaningless to you may be meaningful to me.  Your red is my green and your green is my red. 
If a blind man has to color match wires, a virtual impossible task, is extremely hard work.
One needs to stay with their skill set, and enjoy hard work.

QuoteI see what you are saying and can see it as having intrinsic value.   I didn't understand that before but now I do.  What I was talking about is work that comes like this.   One digs a hole and once he is done digging the hole he fills it up again.    He does that for  an amount of time.  The work has no purpose unless the person enjoys digging holes or is getting exercise.
If work serves no purpose? It's probably a govt job, sriously. :laugh:

QuoteAgreed!   Here is what I do not grasp.   If they were lied to then why punish them?   Why is it their fault if they could not make a life for themselves because they followed information that was faulty and they trusted those who were in charge of them and deferred to their authority like they were supposed to do?   
No one is punishing them, we're using basic tough love. They got sold a Bill of goods, it's up to them to quit whining and make something of themselves.
Simply going to school and expecting the world to open it's arms to you is living an illusion.

QuoteCan you explain further please if you do not mind?   Thank You!
PC rules. They shamed kids into believing the Capitalist system is evil, that it wants slaves/drones., but follow their plan of leftist indoctrination centers (Universities) you won't have to be a drone.
Yeah, they were lied to, we're a Capitalist competitive nation, where hard work is the way of the land in achieving the American dream.


Quotea.  How does an entry level job create a work ethic when we have those who rise to the top and still lack character and a work ethic.   I believe Ken Lay is a good example.   He started out by mowing lawns and delivering newspapers.   During the Enron Scandal where was his work ethic and character?   If work truthfully created a work ethic then wouldn't those at the top who work hard to achieve their positions have moral and virtuous character?   What about Bill Clinton?   Didn't he work hard to get to where he was at and start off somewhere?   He still received oral sex though from Monica Lawinsky.   So, not only did he cheat on his wife Hillary but did he not disrespect the oval office?   Didn't he lie under oath as well?  How did he develop a good work ethic and good character throughout his career?   
Starting at the bottom is entry level work, and the first thing one realizes is the harder they work, the more valuable they become to the employer, the faster they advance.
Meaning, show up on time, be courteous, go above and beyond what's expected of you.
You advance, as you learn what employers want, so you take this new found ethic to a better employer, it's exactly what we're looking for.

QuoteSo, how does hard work always lead to good character?    Can you please explain further?
It doesn't, character is an individual trait, and if you don't have good character, you will not have good work ethics either.

QuoteExcellent story but it doesn't make any sense because it has missing specifics.   If this man came over in today's world without speaking a lick of English would McDonalds have hired him today?  Would he not need excellent communication skills?   If he didn't speak a lick of English then how was he able to work?  What was his initial job exactly?   Was he a janitor?  How was he able to do what his boss asked?   If he took people's orders then how was he able to understand what the customer was ordering?   Did he have someone to translate for him initially?   How did he learn to speak English?   Did he receive free tutoring?  Did he learn through osmosis? While he was working at McDonalds, did he have a part time shift or a full time shift?   How did he support himself with the salary he was making plus being able to afford things like medical care and insurance?   Did he have others in his life that assisted him and explain things to him or did he do this all on his own?   

How hard is it to hand a mop to someone and point to the floor?
The owner took a chance, luckily for the owner, he stumbled across a man with the ethic of hard work pays off, the guy understood that hard work was the path to achieving the American dream.
The guy learned the language of the land well enough to get by, though I admit, he was still hard to understand, but despite the obstacles, he persevered.


QuoteI do understand the point you were trying to make with the story.   The issue is it lacks certain specifics details like I asked about above.   It is like listening to a record or CD that skips multiple times in a row.  If I do come across as facetious or disrespectful I am not meaning to.  I really am lacking pertinent specifics to make your story coherent in my mind.

Let your experience fill in the gaps. You don't need all the irrelevant details, when the basics tell the entire story, a story of a man busting his ass to make a life for himself in the face of unrelenting obstacles..

Here's what the leftists want. Unions, they want everyone employed, paid the same regardless of the job, so there is no reason leave the job you're in.
Problem is, this removes the human equation for personal achievement, promotions, raises, so why work hard, why create a quality product?
The leftist way caries an end goal of communism, where the State provides you a job based on your skills as they deem necessary.
You may prove to be an excellent engineer, but if the State is flushed with engineers, they use your next skill-set, and if you haven't one, you may wind up being a house painter in a dead end job you cannot leave because they've removed the free enterprise system.

Since we're not a socialist nation, it's incumbent upon you to make your way in life, where the sky is the limit.
Personally, I prefer the freedom to fail or succeed.
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

Solar

Quote from: cubedemon on September 16, 2015, 11:53:19 AM
There are some things I do get but there are things I really do not get.   That's why I'm here asking logical questions and presenting my points as to why certain things makes no sense to me.   I'm trying to get it.  It's that I'm lacking certain specifics and how certain specifics connect together.   Problem is, we're both speaking a different version of English which might as well be two different languages.
I understand. I think the problem is, you way over think everything, don't look at it through a microscope.
When approaching an issue, go with your first gut instinct. Like the guy in my story, he didn't need to be shown how to use a mop, most likely because he'd used one before, so he did the best job he could, and with his work ethic, he probably went above and beyond what was asked of him.

Could it be, that jsut maybe you need to start at the bottom in an entry level job and see how the real world works?
You can read every book their is on how to mop a fllor, but until you actually do it, you'll never get it.
Take a shot, apply for an entry level position as a janitor, or golpher at a car lot, get your foot in the door, you never know where it might lead.

Let me tell you how I spent my all of my 20's seeking employment.
I'd have some menial job working construction or something, then one day on the way to work, I'd ask God for direction, and invariable he'd say turn right, pull in there and talk to that guy. I'm not making this up, it's the Gods truth.

I'd strike up a conversation with the guy and after awhile the guy would give me a lead on a job.
I'd go in, interview and was almost always hired on the spot, granted, these weren't really skilled positions, but they always lead to a better position, or a new lead.
The point is, you just have to get up the nerve to ask for a job, anything if you really want to get a start.

By the way, every single job I had, was in preparation for later in life of my career.
Thank you God, whom allowed me to retire in my 40s.

Listen to your gut, it's God talking....
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

walkstall

Quote from: cubedemon on September 16, 2015, 12:12:37 PM
I Disagree!   He is speaking Neurotypical English.   I am speaking Asperger English. 

http://web.archive.org/web/20080606024118/http://web.syr.edu/~jisincla/language.htm


QuoteSolar speaking Conservative.           cubedemon speaking liberal.


A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."

supsalemgr

Quote from: cubedemon on September 16, 2015, 12:08:04 PM
This is another standard about American society I literally do not grasp nor understand.  Why is one not allowed to make excuses even if the excuses were based in sound logical reasoning? 

Let's say I'm a janitor working somewhere.   I'm told to clean a spill.   I go to get my equipment to clean including wet signs.  For whatever reason, the room the equipment is in is locked.   Only the boss has the key.  Yet, my boss is in a meeting and just started or he is nowhere to be found and I try looking and can't find him.  There are three options that I see to do.

a.  if the boss is in a meeting I could disturb the meeting.   Let's say I give the excuse that I couldn't clean cause the door was locked and he still was upset and I was making excuses for disturbing the meeting.  Then what?

b.   I could just leave the spill and do something else while I wait for the boss.  I put stuff around the spill to make sure no one slips.   Let's say he still gets upset and asks why I didn't clean up the spill?   I tell him he was in a meeting.   He says then you should've disturbed me.  There are no excuses for this?

c.   I could go out and buy equipment with my own money and return the stuff later.  I leave and boss accuses me of floundering about.  I tell him what I did and he said I should've came and got him.  I tell him he was in a meeting and says you should've disturbed me.  There are no excuses for this?   

So, how does one handle stuff like this and why are excuses wrong to give no matter the situation?   Again, I don't get it.
b.

You are now moving into troll territory. The above is a distraction. However,  the obvious answer is the spill should be cleaned ASAP. Therefore, it would be OK to interrupt the dumb ass boss who has the only key.
"If you can't run with the big dawgs, stay on the porch!"

cubedemon

Quote from: supsalemgr on September 16, 2015, 02:58:32 PM
You are now moving into troll territory. The above is a distraction. However,  the obvious answer is the spill should be cleaned ASAP. Therefore, it would be OK to interrupt the dumb ass boss who has the only key.

If I offended you or anyone else then what I ask is for you and others here to please forgive me for my trespass.


cubedemon


Solar

Quote from: cubedemon on September 16, 2015, 12:08:04 PM
This is another standard about American society I literally do not grasp nor understand.  Why is one not allowed to make excuses even if the excuses were based in sound logical reasoning? 

Let's say I'm a janitor working somewhere.   I'm told to clean a spill.   I go to get my equipment to clean including wet signs.  For whatever reason, the room the equipment is in is locked.   Only the boss has the key.  Yet, my boss is in a meeting and just started or he is nowhere to be found and I try looking and can't find him.  There are three options that I see to do.

a.  if the boss is in a meeting I could disturb the meeting.   Let's say I give the excuse that I couldn't clean cause the door was locked and he still was upset and I was making excuses for disturbing the meeting.  Then what?

b.   I could just leave the spill and do something else while I wait for the boss.  I put stuff around the spill to make sure no one slips.   Let's say he still gets upset and asks why I didn't clean up the spill?   I tell him he was in a meeting.   He says then you should've disturbed me.  There are no excuses for this?

c.   I could go out and buy equipment with my own money and return the stuff later.  I leave and boss accuses me of floundering about.  I tell him what I did and he said I should've came and got him.  I tell him he was in a meeting and says you should've disturbed me.  There are no excuses for this?   

So, how does one handle stuff like this and why are excuses wrong to give no matter the situation?   Again, I don't get it.
b.
Go buy a roll of paper towels and tell him no charge. Your initiative will go a long way towards a raise.
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

cubedemon

Quote from: Solar on September 16, 2015, 04:55:17 PM
Go buy a roll of paper towels and tell him no charge. Your initiative will go a long way towards a raise.

Solar, the point I was making is that I literally don't grasp certain aspects of American society.   Why is one not allowed to make excuses no matter the circumstances and the case even if the excuse is based upon sound and logical reasoning?   How do I avoid committing wrongdoing?

Another thing, you're telling me to take the initiative and tell him no charge.   Supsalemgr is telling me to interrupt the meeting.     The other move is to block it off the spill with certain other objects.  Which is the correct move to make here?

You're telling me to use my gut instinct.  Well, my gut instinct would tell me that there are three possibilities each with the possibility of wrongdoing.   So, in essence its a catch-22 and its damned if I do and damned if I do not.   

Finally, I did apologize for entering troll territory as Supsalemgr said.   How am I entering troll territory though?   What exactly am I doing wrong?   What can I do to avoid it in the future?

cubedemon

Quote from: Solar on September 16, 2015, 01:06:49 PM

Let your experience fill in the gaps. You don't need all the irrelevant details, when the basics tell the entire story, a story of a man busting his ass to make a life for himself in the face of unrelenting obstacles..



How?   How do I do this especially if my brain is wired differently than the average joe?   Won't my experiences or the interpretation of my experiences be different and have the possibility of being misconstrued.   For me, without you telling me that about that it isn't hard to point to the mop and the place to clean the story you gave didn't make any sense to me.   With this added detail, I can now conceive how it was logically possible for him be able to work at McDonalds and how communication can effectively take place back and forth.   I can now connect the dots a bit better. 


Solar

Quote from: cubedemon on September 16, 2015, 05:25:15 PM
Solar, the point I was making is that I literally don't grasp certain aspects of American society.   Why is one not allowed to make excuses no matter the circumstances and the case even if the excuse is based upon sound and logical reasoning?   How do I avoid committing wrongdoing?

Another thing, you're telling me to take the initiative and tell him no charge.   Supsalemgr is telling me to interrupt the meeting.     The other move is to block it off the spill with certain other objects.  Which is the correct move to make here?

You're telling me to use my gut instinct.  Well, my gut instinct would tell me that there are three possibilities each with the possibility of wrongdoing.   So, in essence its a catch-22 and its damned if I do and damned if I do not.   

Finally, I did apologize for entering troll territory as Supsalemgr said.   How am I entering troll territory though?   What exactly am I doing wrong?   What can I do to avoid it in the future?
You trapped yourself with three options, when in truth you have hundreds of options.
Take off your work shirt, wipe up the spill, ask other employees if they have an extra towel, but some towels.
The employer will appreciate your initiative, but if he told you not to bother him with trivial crap, then don't do it.

A fire is an emergency, an life threatening accident, is an emergency, interrupt him with an emergency, a spill is not an emergency, do your job, clean up, so clean it up, no matter what it takes.
Go buy a damn mop for crying out loud.
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

cubedemon

Quote from: Solar on September 16, 2015, 06:22:46 PM
You trapped yourself with three options, when in truth you have hundreds of options.
Take off your work shirt, wipe up the spill, ask other employees if they have an extra towel, but some towels.
The employer will appreciate your initiative, but if he told you not to bother him with trivial crap, then don't do it.

A fire is an emergency, an life threatening accident, is an emergency, interrupt him with an emergency, a spill is not an emergency, do your job, clean up, so clean it up, no matter what it takes.
Go buy a damn mop for crying out loud.

Your right Solar.  There are other options my friend.   Some good, some not so good.

cubedemon

Quote from: Solar on September 16, 2015, 01:59:33 PM
I understand. I think the problem is, you way over think everything, don't look at it through a microscope.
When approaching an issue, go with your first gut instinct. Like the guy in my story, he didn't need to be shown how to use a mop, most likely because he'd used one before, so he did the best job he could, and with his work ethic, he probably went above and beyond what was asked of him.

Listen to your gut, it's God talking....

Let's take this in a different tact.   You're telling me to use my gut and that it is God talking.   I am assuming all of this is true about God. 

1.  God wants a relationship with his creation, right?

2.  Part of a relationship involves communication meaning that there is a mutual understanding of what the other person says, means and their intent behind the words and actions.   

3.  God formed thee in thy mother's womb, right?

4.  If God formed thee in thy mother's womb with a specific nature than wouldn't God communicate with me in a way that I could understand through my own God created nature and God created understanding?   I am part of God's creation, right?   He knows how I work, think and function so why wouldn't he speak in a tongue that was specific to how I work, think and function?

supsalemgr

Quote from: cubedemon on September 20, 2015, 02:12:56 PM
Let's take this in a different tact.   You're telling me to use my gut and that it is God talking.   I am assuming all of this is true about God. 

1.  God wants a relationship with his creation, right?

2.  Part of a relationship involves communication meaning that there is a mutual understanding of what the other person says, means and their intent behind the words and actions.   

3.  God formed thee in thy mother's womb, right?

4.  If God formed thee in thy mother's womb with a specific nature than wouldn't God communicate with me in a way that I could understand through my own God created nature and God created understanding?   I am part of God's creation, right?   He knows how I work, think and function so why wouldn't he speak in a tongue that was specific to how I work, think and function?

God does not speak with you. He expects you to have faith in him and he will lead you through your life. One might think they are your chiocedsand decisions, but with faith they are actually his.
"If you can't run with the big dawgs, stay on the porch!"