Do You Take the Bible Literally & Seriously? You're a Threat to the State

[Yawn]

Trooper Joe Kluczynski taught a 2-hour section on sovereign citizens.  Kluczynski spent most of his two hours focusing on how, in his view and apparently the view of Homeland Security, people turn to the sovereign citizen movement.  Kluczynski started off by saying there are probably some sovereign citizens in this room and gave a generalized list of those groups that have sovereign citizen views. 

Among those groups, Kluczynski had listed, were those who believe America was founded on godly principles, Christians who take the Bible literally, and "fundamentalists".  Kluczynski did not explain what he meant by "fundamentalists" but from the context it was clear he was referring again to those who took the Bible literally or "too seriously."

"He had a list of groups of people who are likely or who are sovereign citizens. One was Christians and I don't remember how he worded it, but it was Christians — but when he got to that part he said these are the people who take the Bible literally...these are the people who think that America was founded on Christian principles," he continued.  Source

[kramarat]

I was going to start another thread, but this ties right in....

One of my wife's brothers recently quit the Presbyterian church he was a member of. You're not going to believe the reason.

The new Sunday school format, is to teach all of the kids that the stories from the Bible are just that, stories...as in, fictional stories.
Call me crazy, but the way I see it, if kids are taught that the Bible is a work of fiction, then it seems to follow, that the entire concept of God and Jesus are something to be outgrown later in life; like santa claus.

I don't know how prevalent this is, but it's pretty alarming. It's also clear evidence that progressive liberals are moving in on the churches, and reducing the significance of the Bible in children's hearts and minds.

[JustKari]

I was going to start another thread, but this ties right in....

One of my wife's brothers recently quit the Presbyterian church he was a member of. You're not going to believe the reason.

The new Sunday school format, is to teach all of the kids that the stories from the Bible are just that, stories...as in, fictional stories.
Call me crazy, but the way I see it, if kids are taught that the Bible is a work of fiction, then it seems to follow, that the entire concept of God and Jesus are something to be outgrown later in life; like santa claus.

I don't know how prevalent this is, but it's pretty alarming. It's also clear evidence that progressive liberals are moving in on the churches, and reducing the significance of the Bible in children's hearts and minds.

Finding a good Sunday School Curriculum is difficult, a lot of them seem to follow the "story" model and many children do have difficulty understanding that this is history, not story hour.  We have also left churches because the Sunday School was weak.

[kramarat]

Finding a good Sunday School Curriculum is difficult, a lot of them seem to follow the "story" model and many children do have difficulty understanding that this is history, not story hour.  We have also left churches because the Sunday School was weak.

I don't know all of the details, but it sounds like the Sunday school teachers are being specifically instructed to present the stories of the Bible as "just stories", as in, not to be taken literally. I can understand simplifying the Bible so that kids can understand the message of the story they are being told, but not telling them that it is a made up story. They won't know the difference between the Bible and Mother Goose. Not a good sign.

I also caught something on FB or somewhere, about a group called "Christians for gay marriage".

[MFA]

Finding a good Sunday School Curriculum is difficult, a lot of them seem to follow the "story" model and many children do have difficulty understanding that this is history, not story hour.  We have also left churches because the Sunday School was weak.

This is true.  Telling the stories is the bread and butter of traditional Sunday School.  This was my pet peeve with the Bible series on History--telling the stories without telling the story.

The second problem is not giving interpretation and appropriate application.  One of the Sunday School teachers at my church was teaching the story of David and Goliath and using it to teach about bullying.  Not only is that not what the story is about (dealing with bullies) but imagine some kid taking what he learns from that story and applying it directly to the schoolyard bully...

[JustKari]

This is true.  Telling the stories is the bread and butter of traditional Sunday School.  This was my pet peeve with the Bible series on History--telling the stories without telling the story.

The second problem is not giving interpretation and appropriate application.  One of the Sunday School teachers at my church was teaching the story of David and Goliath and using it to teach about bullying.  Not only is that not what the story is about (dealing with bullies) but imagine some kid taking what he learns from that story and applying it directly to the schoolyard bully...

  Yikes, that was some pretty poor forethought.  I am not surprised though, often Sunday school teachers are the very few willing to volunteer.  In fact, I should probably volunteer. 

[kramarat]

  Yikes, that was some pretty poor forethought.  I am not surprised though, often Sunday school teachers are the very few willing to volunteer.  In fact, I should probably volunteer. 

I'm sure you've heard the latest mantra, "Jesus was a socialist".

[Solar]

My Sunday school teacher was so bad, she made rehular school look like a vacation.
She had no idea how to connect with kids, thought we were adults and talked to us in the same way, everything went over our heads.
I remember it like it as yesterday, even the smells from 1959, old and moldy.

I think the only reason I had to go was so my parents could get a break.

[JustKari]

I'm sure you've heard the latest mantra, "Jesus was a socialist".

Socialism inherently puts the government in charge of all people and social problems, this is the antithesis of what Jesus preached.  He preached that people should care for the poor, that of whom much is given, much is expected.  Socialism leaves you nothing left to help the poor, or leaves you one of them.  Plus, it also gives the false impression that lots of things are already being done fore the poor.  All Jesus really said about government was pay your taxes.  People say that Jesus was a socialist for two reasons, the first is to feel better about wanting a government that does their work for them and secondly, because they think Christian Conservatives are gulible enough to believe it.

[kramarat]

My Sunday school teacher was so bad, she made rehular school look like a vacation.
She had no idea how to connect with kids, thought we were adults and talked to us in the same way, everything went over our heads.
I remember it like it as yesterday, even the smells from 1959, old and moldy.

I think the only reason I had to go was so my parents could get a break.

Being raised Catholic, I had catechism on Saturday mornings and church on Sunday. It was usually like what you experienced, but for a couple of years, my teacher was a beautiful blond woman, early 20's, so I didn't mind. It was also the late 60's.

I remember she played the entire album, "Jesus Christ Superstar", in class, which probably would have landed her in big trouble if our priest had found out. I haven't listened to it since, but I don't remember anything offensive, and the teacher truly looked at Jesus as a hero to mankind.

[MFA]

  Yikes, that was some pretty poor forethought.  I am not surprised though, often Sunday school teachers are the very few willing to volunteer.  In fact, I should probably volunteer. 

A Sunday School volunteer with even decent Bible knowledge and adequate teaching ability can impact the lives of many people immeasurably.  Do it!

[Mountainshield]

Socialism inherently puts the government in charge of all people and social problems, this is the antithesis of what Jesus preached.  He preached that people should care for the poor, that of whom much is given, much is expected.  Socialism leaves you nothing left to help the poor, or leaves you one of them.  Plus, it also gives the false impression that lots of things are already being done fore the poor.  All Jesus really said about government was pay your taxes.  People say that Jesus was a socialist for two reasons, the first is to feel better about wanting a government that does their work for them and secondly, because they think Christian Conservatives are gulible enough to believe it.

I wholly agree with you, the teachings of the Bible is not a blueprint for state governance, it is spiritual and individual governance. That is what is so great about the founding fathers, they knew this.

Many socialist will quote of context bible passages that would seem out of context to be a rule against capitalism in the sense that is against materialism. But Socialism is based on christian principles as most classic socialist during the early 19th century was genuine christians, what they failed to understand is that to use violence to force people to i.e give to the poor is as you say antithetical to Christianity.

And in any case there is nothing more materialistic as socialism is a stage for communism which is dialectical materialism.