Commands From God Vs Our Inalienable Rights

[walkstall]

Perhaps you should read it sometime...

Sir do you have time to answer 500.000.000 questions?  Around the Constitution of the United States of America.   

[cubedemon]

Classic "apples to oranges" comparison!

I can see why you would see it this way.  Your answer below adds more caramel to the apples. 

In the case of the military, police departments, fire departments etc, citizens are paying for services provided by those organization for the common good. Money is paid for services rendered. 


In the case of the Welfare State, the Government is arbitrarily taking wealth from one group of citizens and re-distributing it to another group of citizens.

So, what you're telling me is that it is moral for the government  to stick a gun in your face and say "GIVE" to fund these things if it meets the following conditions, a.  it is utilitarian meaning that it provides value and/or utility and b.  it has to be specifically authorized in the constitution.   Is this correct?   

A lot of Conservatives don't support the war in Iraq and Afghanistan either. However, the military (and its use) is specifically authorized by the U.S. Constitution. Redistribution of wealth is not. The maxim holds up because, as with the fire department, police department, etc, it is money paid for services rendered. If you don't like what your elected officials are doing with those services, maybe you should think about electing officials who will repeal the War Powers act.

1.   See Above

2.   I was talking about concepts and ideas not what is specifically written in our US Constitution. 

It is far easier to hold corrupt private organization to account than it is the Federal Government.

Again, how do you know this?

The development of a large class of poor people who are dependent upon the Government for their very livelihood.

Based upon how welfare is today including what it provides, the rules for staying on it and how much it does provide including SSDI (Social Security Disability Insurance) and the stigma that comes with these things why would anyone choose to be on welfare or SSDI?   Why would anyone make such a choice?   

I don't know about other states but in the state of Georgia which is a very conservative state.   Here are the rules to be able to utilize TANF. 

http://dfcs.dhs.georgia.gov/tanf-eligibility-requirements

Why would anyone subject themselves to this?

Now, let's look at the State of New York which I presume is a very liberal state

https://otda.ny.gov/programs/temporary-assistance/

One has a time limit for receiving of benefits even in a very liberal state.   

Again, why would anyone subject themselves to this and how is anyone making a livelihood from this?

Can you show me specific people right now making a livelihood from the government?   Who is receiving this mysterious livelihood? 

As a person on SSDI and a person who has talked to others on SSDI, one doesn't receive much on SSDI.  One does not make a livelihood from that.   Yes, I did manage to have some jobs only by the grace of God.   I didn't seek them out on my own nor earn them on my own.   I was simply in the right place at the right time.   What I've been told is that my state is the most difficult state to qualify for SSDI benefits and I somehow managed to qualify for  them the first time I applied. 

SSDI requires one to have been working, so one can pay taxes including taxes for social security.   SSDI is not welfare because it is money from the taxes I did manage to put in for social security from the jobs I did have plus some interest.  So, I did earn my SSDI because I qualified under its parameters including putting my own money in.      SSDI does not pay much so again, where is the livelihood.  Even if I was receiving a livelihood then it's something I earned. 

The Constitution of the United States of America.

No need for the sarcastic eye roll.  Here is the point.  Anyway, who were the authors of these things?   Who were they?  They're the founding fathers who were imperfect men.   They're the ones who laid down the parameters of the constitution based upon ideas they had.   When they met for the constitutional convention because The Articles of Confederation failed none of them agreed upon everything.  None of them always got what they wanted.   They had to compromise on a lot of things which politicians and people in their everyday life do today.   The constitution is a series of compromises that comprises the structure of our government including the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial in which each branch was supposed to check each other therefore limiting and spreading out who has power so not one person or group has absolute power.   

I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who said that one must have a rebellion every 20 years or so.  I could be wrong about this fact.   To me, it doesn't just mean a literal revolution with guns and soldiers.  It means one should re-think one's ideas from time to time.  One must question one's ideas and the ideas of others.   The constitution is not a holy document with ideas that are infallible.  The ideas are ideals that we as Americans try to subscribe to the best we can.   They're just that.  Ideals.  Not things that are set in stone. 

The two excellent things about our nation and others like ours which nations like North Korea and others like NK lack is a.  the ability to even discuss this stuff without fear of imprisonment and/or death b.  the idea that there is a checks and balances not just amongst various governments in our society including the federal but amongst us, the citizenry.  By we the people even discussing tyranny and we as a people fearing tyranny, tyranny will be kept at bay.   The government is made up of people with their roles with various beliefs and ideas of their own and we the people who are not in government have our own ideas and beliefs of our own.   We're all the checks and balances and we're all America and as long as these discussions go on things will be okay.   

[cubedemon]

Okay, this is a very deep subject that requires more than a few sentences.  But I will say that I believe the Scriptures when they say that "Before the foundation of the earth, God pre-ordained" those who would become believers in Him.  That is a very difficult doctrine, but it is pure Scripture.  I could give you many scriptures to support this.

The point is..... God ordains who will become His people.  That includes infants and all mankind.  His sheep will hear His voice.

Romans 9 tells us that God created some for destruction.  That is a difficult doctrine.... but truth.  Some people will never become believers because it is not providential. 

I think the best way of looking at it is that if there were no blackness, we would be unable to understand the blessing of light.  Sin exists because we can better appreciate and understand God's grace. 

The old testament law was given to us as a tutor (according to Hebrews) that we might be able to understand good vs. evil.  That we might be able to see the wonder of God's grace to sinners. 

God reveals Himself to all men, but not all men will respond to Him.

I know this is over 120 days but this is still difficult for me to understand.

Why do not all respond to him?  Is it because God doesn't allow them to or they choose not to?   Can they choose to respond whatsoever?  Is it their own ego?   If it is, what causes the ego?   Do they cause their own ego or does God choose them to have the ego so they can't choose God?

Why do we need sin to better appreciate and understand God's grace?   Why must darkness exist with light?

Does this mean that it was God's purpose for Satan was to rebel against him?   

[Steve,SPHR]

If we put aside for a second the devil in Eden when God banished Adam and Eve because they ate the apple which caused them to realize they were naked and become "aware"

do you think God does not want us to know everything?  He wants to keep us below a certain level?

what do you think?

[walkstall]

If we put aside for a second the devil in Eden when God banished Adam and Eve because they ate the apple which caused them to realize they were naked and become "aware"

do you think God does not want us to know everything?  He wants to keep us below a certain level?

what do you think?

So does SPHR stand for, Senior Professional in Human Resources or Solidarity for Palestinian Human Rights? 

[Steve,SPHR]

the first one. I am in HR.

Like many I use this moniker on other boards (HR) and they contain numerous conservatives so in the event I meet someone who knows me here they will recognize me.

[Solar]

the first one. I am in HR.

Like many I use this moniker on other boards (HR) and they contain numerous conservatives so in the event I meet someone who knows me here they will recognize me.

I feel your pain, my wife just transferred out of HR.
Welcome to the forum...

[Steve,SPHR]

 

If it were not for the people, HR would be a pretty good job!

Thanks for the welcome, I appreciate it. 

I've been reading for a few days which is what attracted me here.  This seems like a very popular active board with some very intelligent passionate people who like to discuss things in some detail which is what I am looking for.

Thanks again, Solar.

[walkstall]

the first one. I am in HR.

Like many I use this moniker on other boards (HR) and they contain numerous conservatives so in the event I meet someone who knows me here they will recognize me.

My youngest daughter is also in HR for a very large company in Seattle.


Welcome young man. 

[tac]

the first one. I am in HR.

Like many I use this moniker on other boards (HR) and they contain numerous conservatives so in the event I meet someone who knows me here they will recognize me.

Welcome aboard Steve from a rabid Bronco fan.

[Steve,SPHR]

Thank you, Walks, I appreciate the welcome!

Your daughter is in Seattle, wonderful place, how do you reconcile she is with all those Liberals?

Just kidding, thanks again!

[Steve,SPHR]

Welcome aboard Steve from a rabid Bronco fan.

WONDERFUL!  tac thank you for the welcome I have to say that AFC Championship game  WAS the Super Bowl last year.  Your Broncos beat the Patriots like no one else could have.  I have always really respected Wade Phillips.  What a great guy I was really happy he got to reach this goal after being with so many crappy teams in his whole career.  He is a defensive Genius!

If it wasn't for Wade Phillips the Patriots would have won the Super Bowl again but I take my hat off to you and your team, well done and I couldn't desire a better outcome for Peyton unless it was for TomBrady!

[walkstall]

Thank you, Walks, I appreciate the welcome!

Your daughter is in Seattle, wonderful place, how do you reconcile she is with all those Liberals?

Just kidding, thanks again!

In her spare time her and my young grandson are educating the Liberals.  They both learned sitting at my knee as I learned from my father.  But some times I had to go into the wood shed for additional training.    

[supsalemgr]

If it were not for the people, HR would be a pretty good job!

Thanks for the welcome, I appreciate it. 

I've been reading for a few days which is what attracted me here.  This seems like a very popular active board with some very intelligent passionate people who like to discuss things in some detail which is what I am looking for.

Thanks again, Solar.

Welcome to the board. Like Solar, I appreciate the fact you took the time to digest this board for awhile to get a feel foe what we are.

[Steve,SPHR]

Welcome to the board. Like Solar, I appreciate the fact you took the time to digest this board for awhile to get a feel foe what we are.

Thanks for the welcome, I really appreciate it!