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Religion Forum => Religion Forum => Topic started by: alienhand on November 05, 2018, 09:10:11 PM

Title: Cheerful Giver and Hell
Post by: alienhand on November 05, 2018, 09:10:11 PM
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Corinthians+9%3A6-7&version=ESV

6 The point is this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully[a] will also reap bountifully. 7 Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

If God truthfully loves a cheerful giver then why is one under the threat of hell if one chooses not to give?  How is it possible to be a cheerful giver if one is forced to give?
Title: Re: Cheerful Giver and Hell
Post by: taxed on November 06, 2018, 02:57:28 AM
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Corinthians+9%3A6-7&version=ESV

6 The point is this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully[a] will also reap bountifully. 7 Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

If God truthfully loves a cheerful giver then why is one under the threat of hell if one chooses not to give?  How is it possible to be a cheerful giver if one is forced to give?

Did you take your meds?
Title: Re: Cheerful Giver and Hell
Post by: Solar on November 06, 2018, 06:28:11 AM
Did you take your meds?
That may be the problem. He took them.
Title: Re: Cheerful Giver and Hell
Post by: alienhand on November 06, 2018, 11:03:12 AM
Actually, I've been off of them for a while.  Let's just say I've realized certain truths.  I was stuck in a cave and chained to a wall and the shadows were my reality.  When I was released from my chains I turned around and stepped out of the cave.  I saw light and the sun for the 1st time and realized the world I knew and understood was a fraction and was a delusion.  I stepped out of the darkness and into the light.
Title: Re: Cheerful Giver and Hell
Post by: alienhand on November 06, 2018, 10:49:44 PM
If the government does something similar to this then the government is called tyrannical and the people who do it are tyrants, liberals, socialists, etc yet when God does the same thing on a more universal level it is considered just and acceptable.  Why?

Why is it wrong for government to force others to give yet it is moral and just for God who is the government of us all to force all of us to do so with threats and fear of hell and burning in the lake of fire?
Title: Re: Cheerful Giver and Hell
Post by: Solar on November 07, 2018, 04:26:05 AM
If the government does something similar to this then the government is called tyrannical and the people who do it are tyrants, liberals, socialists, etc yet when God does the same thing on a more universal level it is considered just and acceptable.  Why?

Why is it wrong for government to force others to give yet it is moral and just for God who is the government of us all to force all of us to do so with threats and fear of hell and burning in the lake of fire?
Check yourself, you just put Govt on the same level as God.
Title: Re: Cheerful Giver and Hell
Post by: alienhand on November 07, 2018, 08:35:23 AM
Check yourself, you just put Govt on the same level as God.

In other words, God is beyond reproach and question?  You believe that we're God and God is us or the collective theory.   If this is true then shouldn't we all be on the same level?  If not then why not?

To Christians who believe in the holy scriptures, how do you know God is really good and perfect?  What is your justification for this especially as he even says our ways are not his and we wouldn't understand his ways?  B/c he and the Bible say so?  And, is something wrong because it is wrong or is it wrong b/c God says it is?

Title: Re: Cheerful Giver and Hell
Post by: Solar on November 07, 2018, 09:31:04 AM
In other words, God is beyond reproach and question?  You believe that we're God and God is us or the collective theory.   If this is true then shouldn't we all be on the same level?  If not then why not?

To Christians who believe in the holy scriptures, how do you know God is really good and perfect?  What is your justification for this especially as he even says our ways are not his and we wouldn't understand his ways?  B/c he and the Bible say so?  And, is something wrong because it is wrong or is it wrong b/c God says it is?
You need to educate yourself, I have no interest in entertaining questions even a 6 yro figures out on their own.
Title: Re: Cheerful Giver and Hell
Post by: milos on November 07, 2018, 12:37:42 PM
Why is it wrong for government to force others to give yet it is moral and just for God who is the government of us all to force all of us to do so with threats and fear of hell and burning in the lake of fire?

Because God is not the government, God is the Creator, and government is not the Creator, but the Creation as all the people are. So, it is wrong for the government to play God.

To Christians who believe in the holy scriptures, how do you know God is really good and perfect?  What is your justification for this especially as he even says our ways are not his and we wouldn't understand his ways?  B/c he and the Bible say so?  And, is something wrong because it is wrong or is it wrong b/c God says it is?

Only because of God there is "right" and "wrong". Because God is "the one who is", he is the truth. Without God, nothing could be "right" or "wrong". And that is why any kind of Satanism is based on denial of God, and so on denial of "right" and "wrong", on denial and relativization of moral values.
Title: Re: Cheerful Giver and Hell
Post by: alienhand on November 08, 2018, 02:41:30 AM
You need to educate yourself, I have no interest in entertaining questions even a 6 yro figures out on their own.

If a 6 year old truthfully figures things out on their own then why do we need teachers and parents at all?  Your comment makes absolutely no sense.
Title: Re: Cheerful Giver and Hell
Post by: alienhand on November 08, 2018, 02:45:40 AM
Because God is not the government, God is the Creator, and government is not the Creator, but the Creation as all the people are. So, it is wrong for the government to play God.

Only because of God there is "right" and "wrong". Because God is "the one who is", he is the truth. Without God, nothing could be "right" or "wrong". And that is why any kind of Satanism is based on denial of God, and so on denial of "right" and "wrong", on denial and relativization of moral values.

In other words, God is the definer of what is good and evil then which he can change at any time.  Which means, good and evil are arbitrary.  If good and evil are arbitrary to what God says it is then how can one define that God is good?  How is that logically possible?
Title: Re: Cheerful Giver and Hell
Post by: alienhand on November 08, 2018, 02:53:19 AM
No one has answered this question.  How can anyone truthfully be a cheerful giver under the threats of hell if one does not choose to give.  It is sort of like a Mafia protection racket in which a person is forced under the threat of the mafia to pay them protection money so they don't break my knuckles or kill me.

How can one truthfully be cheerful about giving under the threat of violence whether it is from a man, the government or God?  So, how can God want a cheerful giver under the threat of punitive punishments if one doesn't follow his arbitrary and capricious commands.   How is God good exactly?  What makes him good?
Title: Re: Cheerful Giver and Hell
Post by: alienhand on November 08, 2018, 02:55:11 AM
You need to educate yourself, I have no interest in entertaining questions even a 6 yro figures out on their own.

Another thing about this.  Do they really figure out things on their own or is it that they're whipped and beaten down and all independent thought is removed from them so they obey without any question whatsoever?  Which really means we're all supposed to be individuals like everyone else.  This is what growing up truthfully entails.  It means to obey and conform like robots and do as everyone else with no question whatsoever. 
Title: Re: Cheerful Giver and Hell
Post by: Solar on November 08, 2018, 05:12:21 AM
Another thing about this.  Do they really figure out things on their own or is it that they're whipped and beaten down and all independent thought is removed from them so they obey without any question whatsoever?  Which really means we're all supposed to be individuals like everyone else.  This is what growing up truthfully entails.  It means to obey and conform like robots and do as everyone else with no question whatsoever.
This is just silly. Stop over thinking shit that has no answers. I can't demand God come down and set you straight, no more than I make govt bend to my will, simply because both are collectives, but one gives you life, while the other forces your life to behave a certain way.
So ask yourself, whose the better entity, God or Govt? Most sane people choose God, while liberals choose govt.
Title: Re: Cheerful Giver and Hell
Post by: ConservativeInCT on November 08, 2018, 05:46:30 AM
Actually, I've been off of them for a while.  Let's just say I've realized certain truths. I was stuck in a cave and chained to a wall and the shadows were my reality.  When I was released from my chains I turned around and stepped out of the cave.  I saw light and the sun for the 1st time and realized the world I knew and understood was a fraction and was a delusion.  I stepped out of the darkness and into the light.

That explains a lot.
Title: Re: Cheerful Giver and Hell
Post by: walkstall on November 08, 2018, 02:12:39 PM
That explains a lot.


 :lol:  He this way if he on of off meds.  Just a lazy ass lib looking for a hand out.  Who now questions God.   :lol:  He putting government right up there with God, being that the government give him FREE hand out. 
Title: Re: Cheerful Giver and Hell
Post by: alienhand on November 08, 2018, 07:58:38 PM
This is just silly. Stop over thinking shit that has no answers. I can't demand God come down and set you straight, no more than I make govt bend to my will, simply because both are collectives, but one gives you life, while the other forces your life to behave a certain way.
So ask yourself, whose the better entity, God or Govt? Most sane people choose God, while liberals choose govt.

You're fucking kidding me right?

If I don't do what gov't says I will receive negative consequences like going to prison, fines, etc.  In North Korea, I would end up in a labor camp or executed.

If I don't do what God says I will burn in hell for eternity in the lake of fire.

What in the given fuck?  How is God better then gov't when he claims to love a cheerful giver but ever lasting hellfire is for those who don't comply? 

You hate gov't b/c of this yet you love God in spite of doing the same things? :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy:

 
Title: Re: Cheerful Giver and Hell
Post by: milos on November 09, 2018, 12:46:54 AM
In other words, God is the definer of what is good and evil then which he can change at any time.  Which means, good and evil are arbitrary.  If good and evil are arbitrary to what God says it is then how can one define that God is good?  How is that logically possible?

Yes, I was also upset about these questions, but the answer is, God is the life, God is the truth, and no one else, and nothing else, without God there is no life, that is why we say God is good.

Human definition of what is good or bad differs from God's definition of what is good or bad. For example, a man would probably think of good as having a happy life, while God as the Creator may have different plans for that man and what is good for him, so from God's perspective it could be better for that man to suffer than to be happy.

No one has answered this question.  How can anyone truthfully be a cheerful giver under the threats of hell if one does not choose to give.  It is sort of like a Mafia protection racket in which a person is forced under the threat of the mafia to pay them protection money so they don't break my knuckles or kill me.

How can one truthfully be cheerful about giving under the threat of violence whether it is from a man, the government or God?  So, how can God want a cheerful giver under the threat of punitive punishments if one doesn't follow his arbitrary and capricious commands.   How is God good exactly?  What makes him good?

You still can't realize that God is our Creator, and we are his Creation, he has given us our lives in the first place, he is the one to be praised for we live at all. That is the first thing to be cheerful for. He, our Creator, wants us to love him and to love our neighbors, but he has given us free will, so that we can choose whether to honestly love him and our neighbors, or not, but also to take consequences for our choice. And taking consequences for our choice is not a threat, because free will and liberty equals responsibility. We are responsible for our actions, and we are receiving reward or punishment accordingly by God's grace.
Title: Re: Cheerful Giver and Hell
Post by: alienhand on November 09, 2018, 10:25:35 AM
Yes, I was also upset about these questions, but the answer is, God is the life, God is the truth, and no one else, and nothing else, without God there is no life, that is why we say God is good.

Human definition of what is good or bad differs from God's definition of what is good or bad. For example, a man would probably think of good as having a happy life, while God as the Creator may have different plans for that man and what is good for him, so from God's perspective it could be better for that man to suffer than to be happy.

You still can't realize that God is our Creator, and we are his Creation, he has given us our lives in the first place, he is the one to be praised for we live at all. That is the first thing to be cheerful for. He, our Creator, wants us to love him and to love our neighbors, but he has given us free will, so that we can choose whether to honestly love him and our neighbors, or not, but also to take consequences for our choice. And taking consequences for our choice is not a threat, because free will and liberty equals responsibility. We are responsible for our actions, and we are receiving reward or punishment accordingly by God's grace.

A robber comes up behind me, points a gun to my head and demands my money.  In that instance I have choice.  I give him the money or I do not.  Both choices have their consequences.  If I give him the money, he takes it and runs away.  If I do not he shoots me.  Let's say I make the choice to refuse.  He shoots me.  I'm dead.  I chose the consequence.  I'm responsible for my actions.  I sent myself to my death by my choice. 

God loves a cheerful giver supposedly.  If I choose to give and do what what he wants which includes accepting Jesus as my lord and savior then I'm saved.  If I choose not to do so then God metaphorically shoots me in the back of the head in his way.  I chose the consequence.  I'm responsible for my choice.  I sent myself to hell by my choice.   How can one cheerfully give under coercion?  Under the robber scenario I'm forced to give him my money.  Even with socialism you all say that one is forced by government to give to others?  How is this not the same thing?
Title: Re: Cheerful Giver and Hell
Post by: alienhand on November 09, 2018, 10:28:53 AM
Let me ask another question about the creation story.  If incest is immoral then how did people get from Adam and Eve to the time of Noah and how did we get from Noah to right now without incest?  How were the people able to keep to God's commands exactly?