Bible beliefs

[Calypso Jones]

With all due respect, you did apply the word "study" and I would like to know the source of your information to portray Joseph as you did; "think Joseph was a snotty arrogant spoil brat of a kid..."
The story of Joseph is taken from the Old Testament, which is considered to be God's infallible Word for those of the Christian Faith. By what measure do you render your assessment of Joseph's character?

I am not criticizing joseph's character.  He became a fine man.  God refined him as he intended and Joseph was blessed and blessed his family with survival...just as God refined the nation of israel when he kept them enslaved to pharaoh for 4oo years.

Read Genesis.  As a child and young man,  Joseph did not endear himself to his brothers.  He spied on them.  He reported on them to their father. He lorded it over them because of his position in his father's heart.  Jacob was not without blame.  He showed favoritism...to Joseph and to Rachel and he hurt his other sons because of that favoritism and he hurt Leah for his unconcern for her.  Remember he put his other wives in front of his caravan when he knew his Brother Esau was coming toward them for he knew not what.   Leah was blessed in that it was through her son Judah that the line of Jesus came through.  And Judah had his character flaws too.

One of the things I like about the bible is that it does not cover up sins and character flaws of those God chooses to bless.   That's what helps to give it authority.  And,  It gives me hope.

[Solar]

With all due respect, you did apply the word "study" and I would like to know the source of your information to portray Joseph as you did; "think Joseph was a snotty arrogant spoil brat of a kid..."
The story of Joseph is taken from the Old Testament, which is considered to be God's infallible Word for those of the Christian Faith. By what measure do you render your assessment of Joseph's character?

Of like minds! I too take issue with the King James rewrite.

[Calypso Jones]

<sigh>  KJV

33 And Jacob lifted up his eyes, and looked, and, behold, Esau came, and with him four hundred men. And he divided the children unto Leah, and unto Rachel, and unto the two handmaids.
2 And he put the handmaids and their children foremost, and Leah and her children after, and Rachel and Joseph hindermost.

KJV

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+37&version=KJV

[Solars Toy]

<sigh>  KJV

33 And Jacob lifted up his eyes, and looked, and, behold, Esau came, and with him four hundred men. And he divided the children unto Leah, and unto Rachel, and unto the two handmaids.
2 And he put the handmaids and their children foremost, and Leah and her children after, and Rachel and Joseph hindermost.

KJV

You are correct but I am not sure how that is Rachel and her children's fault. 

I am not criticizing joseph's character.  He became a fine man.  God refined him as he intended and Joseph was blessed and blessed his family with survival...just as God refined the nation of israel when he kept them enslaved to pharaoh for 4oo years.

Read Genesis.  As a child and young man,  Joseph did not endear himself to his brothers.  He spied on them.  He reported on them to their father. He lorded it over them because of his position in his father's heart.  Jacob was not without blame.  He showed favoritism...to Joseph and to Rachel and he hurt his other sons because of that favoritism and he hurt Leah for his unconcern for her.  Remember he put his other wives in front of his caravan when he knew his Brother Esau was coming toward them for he knew not what.   Leah was blessed in that it was through her son Judah that the line of Jesus came through.  And Judah had his character flaws too.

One of the things I like about the bible is that it does not cover up sins and character flaws of those God chooses to bless.   That's what helps to give it authority.  And,  It gives me hope.

Can you direct me to where it shows Joseph was spying on his brothers etc?  I would like to read that part since it was not covered in my bible study.

Thanks - Toy

[Mercy Otis Warren]

First - From your original question it did seem your main focus.
Second -  I was raised to ask someone more knowledgeable (my Pastor) about biblical questions I did not understand.
Third - I wasn't being rude I just figured this wasn't the thread to go into the story of Joseph.

I am not sure why you decided to go into profanity and to accuse me of something when you don't know me or any possible motive I might have.  If you have hundreds of books and studied theology and the Bible for years then maybe you should already have the answer to your own question.

Toy 

ASSUMING your pastor is more knowledgeable isn't all that brilliant either.  Doing your own research would be better...if you can.   I certainly wouldn't go to the pastor of the Westboro Church for Biblical interpretations.

And isn't it interesting that you state:  "you don't know me or any possible motive I might have", when several of us new members have had that thrust on us, including Taxed claiming I probably voted for Hillary of all people.  And thinking he had Calypso pegged, when he was so incredibly WAY off base.  Frankly, some of the attacks WE'VE endured are unbelieveable. 

[Mercy Otis Warren]

Some Christian white racists use the bible to justify their racism.  Kind of odd considering there are no white people in that book.

Provide some examples of this...

[Solars Toy]

ASSUMING your pastor is more knowledgeable isn't all that brilliant either.  Doing your own research would be better...if you can.   I certainly wouldn't go to the pastor of the Westboro Church for Biblical interpretations.

And isn't it interesting that you state:  "you don't know me or any possible motive I might have", when several of us new members have had that thrust on us, including Taxed claiming I probably voted for Hillary of all people.  And thinking he had Calypso pegged, when he was so incredibly WAY off base.  Frankly, some of the attacks WE'VE endured are unbelieveable.

Whatever happened between you and Taxed is between the two of you(and CJ) and it certainly was no part of this thread or the conversation CJ and I were having.

Toy

[Calypso Jones]

You are correct but I am not sure how that is Rachel and her children's fault. 
Can you direct me to where it shows Joseph was spying on his brothers etc?  I would like to read that part since it was not covered in my bible study.

Thanks - Rochelle

sure.  I'm not saying it is Rachel's or Joseph's fault.   There was definitely competition between Rachel and Leah.  Leah had many children and Rachel was barren.  Rachel had Jacob's love and Leah didn't.   Don't forget the argument about the mandrake root.    I feel sorry for Leah but she was blessed by God. 

As for Joseph Spying. Gen 37.    I don't think he considered it spying...tattle tale probably and Jacob is at fault here.   He sent his youngest son, already disliked, used him to report on the doings of the other sons as they were tending the flocks.  Put yourself in their places.   Joseph knew they were united against him since he was the favored son and daddy sent him to report on the older brothers.  Wouldn't you consider the little brat to be spying on you telling daddy everything you were doing?  Humiliating and infuriating.

Joseph learned from this.  He learned to be more guarded in what he said.

These aren't superior human beings..  they had faults as all of us but God used them for his purposes.  That rather gives me a sense of hope. 

[Solars Toy]

sure.  I'm not saying it is Rachel's or Joseph's fault.   There was definitely competition between Rachel and Leah.  Leah had many children and Rachel was barren.  Rachel had Jacob's love and Leah didn't.   Don't forget the argument about the mandrake root.    I feel sorry for Leah but she was blessed by God. 

As for Joseph Spying. Gen 37.    I don't think he considered it spying...tattle tale probably and Jacob is at fault here.   He sent his youngest son, already disliked, used him to report on the doings of the other sons as they were tending the flocks.  Put yourself in their places.   Joseph knew they were united against him since he was the favored son.  Wouldn't you consider the little brat to be spying on you telling daddy everything you were doing?  Humiliating and infuriating.

Joseph learned from this.  He learned to be more guarded in what he said.

These aren't superior human beings..  they had faults as all of us but God used them for his purposes.  That rather gives me a sense of hope.

I agree there were a lot of faults by all the players.  But the main player I blame is Jacob (Israel).  I will check back into chapter 37 and see what I get out of it.

Being the baby of my family (and used by my siblings to spy on each other) maybe this is a sore spot for me.    My siblings also used me to get ice cream from the dairy bar in the summer since Dad rarely told me no in those instances.  Toy

[Calypso Jones]

I agree there were a lot of faults by all the players.  But the main player I blame is Jacob (Israel).  I will check back into chapter 37 and see what I get out of it.

Being the baby of my family (and used by my siblings to spy on each other) maybe this is a sore spot for me.    My siblings also used me to get ice cream from the dairy bar in the summer since Dad rarely told me no in those instances.  Toy

yeah.  LOL  I was the oldest in my family.  BUT I watched my 3 interact and whoever was not in the house at the time was the one that was blamed for any transgression.  LOL

[Calypso Jones]

I agree there were a lot of faults by all the players.  But the main player I blame is Jacob (Israel). 

I don't blame him...he was human.  As were his children.  Look at the history of Reuben....slept with Bilhah.  Look at Judah.    His sons died one after the other and he refused to do the right thing by his daughter in law Tamar.  She tricked  him but he betrayed her first.   Then one of the twin sons born to Tamar and Judah was in the line of Christ.   

Look at Rahab...the prostitute...line of Christ.  Ruth, Moabitess; Ruth's people worshipped Chemosh (heathen god who required sacrifice of babies), line of Christ.  God uses whom he so pleases and does not hesitate to show the warts...cause we all have them.

[Solars Toy]

I don't blame him...he was human.  As were his children.  Look at the history of Reuben....slept with Bilhah.  Look at Judah.    His sons died one after the other and he refused to do the right thing by his daughter in law Tamar.  She tricked  him but he betrayed her first.   Then one of the twin sons born to Tamar and Judah was in the line of Christ.   

Look at Rahab...the prostitute...line of Christ.  Ruth, Moabitess; Ruth's people worshipped Chemosh (heathen god who required sacrifice of babies), line of Christ.  God uses whom he so pleases and does not hesitate to show the warts...cause we all have them.

God did not and still does not use perfect people for His plan. 

Funny but when you really get into reading parts of the Bible (especially the Old Testament) it can be shocking what was going on and how God calls those who don't always seem "worthy" of the job.  Toy

[Calypso Jones]

God did not and still does not use perfect people for His plan. 

Funny but when you really get into reading parts of the Bible (especially the Old Testament) it can be shocking what was going on and how God calls those who don't always seem "worthy" of the job.  Toy

absolutely

[Calypso Jones]

Just finished up a study on Daniel.  IT was AWESOME.


NOW THAT was a GOOD man.  He didn't consider himself a good man.    Have you done that study.  Taken as a young man, more than likely eunuchized before the age of 18 and lived his life in the service of Babylonian and  Medo Persian Kings.

[WMK]

I am not criticizing joseph's character.  He became a fine man.  God refined him as he intended and Joseph was blessed and blessed his family with survival...just as God refined the nation of israel when he kept them enslaved to pharaoh for 4oo years.

Read Genesis.  As a child and young man,  Joseph did not endear himself to his brothers.  He spied on them.  He reported on them to their father. He lorded it over them because of his position in his father's heart.  Jacob was not without blame.  He showed favoritism...to Joseph and to Rachel and he hurt his other sons because of that favoritism and he hurt Leah for his unconcern for her.  Remember he put his other wives in front of his caravan when he knew his Brother Esau was coming toward them for he knew not what.   Leah was blessed in that it was through her son Judah that the line of Jesus came through.  And Judah had his character flaws too.

One of the things I like about the bible is that it does not cover up sins and character flaws of those God chooses to bless.   That's what helps to give it authority.  And,  It gives me hope.

I know the Scripture as it concerns the life of Joseph, Jacob, and the remaining 11 tribes of Israel (Joseph's brethren).
There is not one iota of scriptural reference as to Joseph having said or acted out of spite for his brethren. Nor did he lie, deceive or pridefully look down on them because of the prophetic dream(s) he shared. He was obvious shown great favoritism by his father, Jacob, being the son of his older age. And as for his so called "spying" Joseph reported dutifully to his father, Jacob, as requested by him. Jacob loved and trusted his son implicitly, is what that suggest to me. And even when Jacob rebuked Joseph for citing the 2nd dream God revealed to him, it was because even he was taken back by what it revealed. However, and this is the real tell, Jacob pondered what was said and took it to heart.  Gen. 37:11 "His brothers were jealous of him, but his father kept the saying in mind."
Now, Scripture does  make specific references to the hatred and evil intentions that Joseph's brethren had plotted.  Moreover, they fully acknowledged this after Jacob was embalmed, fearing Joseph would seek retribution for their evil deed(s).

It is far better to read out of Scripture than to read into it.