Author Topic: as we (Christians) see see the day drawing near  (Read 3129 times)

Online walkstall

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Re: as we (Christians) see see the day drawing near
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2019, 09:30:44 PM »
Chill with the doom and gloom man. I dont think we are anywhere near the days of Noah. Remember, in his day his family were the only believers left on the planet. EVERYONE ELSE had turned from God and either served demons or served themselves.

Did you know those in the early church also thought they were in the end times already? And many generations since have also thought they were living in the end times due to the corruption and sin they witnessed in their times.

In fact globally, christianity is on the rise, the fastest growing religion in the world.


 "the end times"   Just remember " the end time" is just around the corner, most people do not live
past 80, 90 or 100 years old.  So time is near for each generation. 
A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession.  I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.  ~ Ronald Reagan ~

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."

Offline alienhand

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Re: as we (Christians) see see the day drawing near
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2019, 09:47:08 PM »
Chill with the doom and gloom man. I dont think we are anywhere near the days of Noah. Remember, in his day his family were the only believers left on the planet. EVERYONE ELSE had turned from God and either served demons or served themselves.

Did you know those in the early church also thought they were in the end times already? And many generations since have also thought they were living in the end times due to the corruption and sin they witnessed in their times.

In fact globally, christianity is on the rise, the fastest growing religion in the world.

1.   I believe the Bible said that the end times would come like a thief in the night.  We wouldn't even know when they were coming.

2.  I read the Noah's Ark story.   what he wanted Noah to do (build an Ark with certain measurements and specs), what God planned to do (flood the earth), why he was going to do it (other people were violent).  It rained for 40 days and 40 nights and he divided up the species of clean and unclean animals.  I think it was 2 of each for clean and I think 7 for each unclean (I don't remember).  After the flood he made a covenant with a rainbow saying he would never do it again.  I think he told them to refill the earth. 

It really doesn't go into much detail as to who the people were?   What were there lives like?  It's like a lot of detail was whitewashed and blotted out.   I never read in there that they served demons at all in any capacity.  If they did I don't see where the Bible said they did.  Maybe they served themselves like trying to conquer and subdue each other and steal from each other. 

Forgetting all the logistics of the ark and how we were able to get from Adam and Eve to Noah and then Noah to now were the infants back then so violent that they earned God's wrath of this magnitude as well.  What did the infants back then do that they had to be washed away as well? 

3.  More then likely I'm reading these words through sinful eyes.   And, that's why I'm reading it wrong more then likely.  If my nature, man's nature is to sin then how is it possible for any of us to choose God at all.  How can we have that Godly sorrow and be able to ask for forgiveness without God choosing to cleanse us and put his holiness into us?

4.  In the end of times supposedly the beast will have every man rich or poor take a mark.  Even if someone resists the mark won't we still have that spiritual mark which is that sinful nature?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 09:55:59 PM by alienhand »

Offline T Hunt

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Re: as we (Christians) see see the day drawing near
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2019, 11:40:52 PM »
1.   I believe the Bible said that the end times would come like a thief in the night.  We wouldn't even know when they were coming.

2.  I read the Noah's Ark story.   what he wanted Noah to do (build an Ark with certain measurements and specs), what God planned to do (flood the earth), why he was going to do it (other people were violent).  It rained for 40 days and 40 nights and he divided up the species of clean and unclean animals.  I think it was 2 of each for clean and I think 7 for each unclean (I don't remember).  After the flood he made a covenant with a rainbow saying he would never do it again.  I think he told them to refill the earth. 

It really doesn't go into much detail as to who the people were?   What were there lives like?  It's like a lot of detail was whitewashed and blotted out.   I never read in there that they served demons at all in any capacity.  If they did I don't see where the Bible said they did.  Maybe they served themselves like trying to conquer and subdue each other and steal from each other. 

Forgetting all the logistics of the ark and how we were able to get from Adam and Eve to Noah and then Noah to now were the infants back then so violent that they earned God's wrath of this magnitude as well.  What did the infants back then do that they had to be washed away as well? 

3.  More then likely I'm reading these words through sinful eyes.   And, that's why I'm reading it wrong more then likely.  If my nature, man's nature is to sin then how is it possible for any of us to choose God at all.  How can we have that Godly sorrow and be able to ask for forgiveness without God choosing to cleanse us and put his holiness into us?

4.  In the end of times supposedly the beast will have every man rich or poor take a mark.  Even if someone resists the mark won't we still have that spiritual mark which is that sinful nature?

1. Ya he says something like no one will know the day or the hour but that it will come with a great roar like many trumpets or some such. Honestly I'm thinking that the human language probably doesnt even have the right words to describe it since it has never happened before and language is built on past experiances.

But he does tell us some signs of the end times, and that it will be like "in the days of noah" which is taken to mean widespread unbelief which would also result in much sin and evil among mankind.

2. When I say 'demons' I'm talking about the nephalim. Now there is alot of speculation regarding them and that's a whole another topic, with the bible not offering much info on them.
But also in the new testement there is a verse that says when pagans serve idols as gods they are really serving demons. 1 Corinthians 10:20
 
I'm not sure what you are asking about in regards to infants? Perhaps you cld fill me in.

3. Ya dont think you are alone. Alot of ppl have struggled with that same conundrum too. Even those with strong faith have persistent doubts.  But we dont need a strong faith to be saved. He says that faith as small as a mustard seed saves.

So how do I know if I'm saved? Well simply by asking the question I have already admitted that I know I have a need to be saved. Do I believe God sent his son jesus to save me? Yes. BOOM! I know I am saved!

It's that easy. I didnt do anything there. I can take no credit in my being saved, there was no decision on my part. More like a simple revelation and an acceptance of this revelation, in that I didnt reject it. (By reject I dont mean the consistant nagging doubts everyone has,  but a full blown committed decision to reject. But even this can be forgiven if you come back around later)

Now many will reject this and they do that many ways. They may decide jesus never existed and the whole thing is fake. They may decide that they are so bad of a person that even God cannot save them. (This happened to Judas after he betrayed jesus) Or the reverse, they may think they are so good a person that they dont need God to save them. (This was sorta the case with the pharisees who believed they earned the right to go to heaven by living such pure and holy lives.) But all of these are based on lies the devil spreads. He cannot take salvation from you, only you can throw it away and even then God will give it back to you if you want it again. The only way he can take salvation from us is by convincing us to take it away from ourselves. And even then God will always take us back again.

4. Revelations is full of alot of wierd prophecies and there is alot of speculation into what they mean. But the point of prophecy isnt to predict the future. It is to show us, once the future arrives, that God always knew the future. Its a little bit like the way Q says "future proves past".

It is thru prophecy we can know the bible is Gods true word because there are literally hundreds of individual prophecies written by dozens of prophets in the old testament pointing to Jesus, all of which jesus fulfilled in the new testament. Very very detailed stuff too. I really encourage you to actually look at the lists of examples of the prophecies and see just how complex they are. Here is a top 40 list I found just by using duck duck go. https://jewsforjesus.org/answers/top-40-most-helpful-messianic-prophecies/

Offline T Hunt

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Re: as we (Christians) see see the day drawing near
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2019, 11:48:14 PM »

 "the end times"   Just remember " the end time" is just around the corner, most people do not live
past 80, 90 or 100 years old.  So time is near for each generation.

Ya my father actually just passed away last year at 64 so for him it already is the end time(we found him 'asleep' in his chair election day morning). But at least I will see him again when my end time comes. But until then I need to focus on what's left of this life. As the bible says, "work while it is day" meaning our time is short so use it wisely.

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Re: as we (Christians) see see the day drawing near
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2019, 08:10:18 AM »
To add just a little levity to the conversation, I give you Noah.
If you've never heard this, or even if you have, take a moment for some good clean humor. Bill Cosby "Noah's Ark".

#WWG1WGA

Offline alienhand

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Re: as we (Christians) see see the day drawing near
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2019, 11:51:24 PM »
1. Ya he says something like no one will know the day or the hour but that it will come with a great roar like many trumpets or some such. Honestly I'm thinking that the human language probably doesnt even have the right words to describe it since it has never happened before and language is built on past experiances.

But he does tell us some signs of the end times, and that it will be like "in the days of noah" which is taken to mean widespread unbelief which would also result in much sin and evil among mankind.


I know this table has stats from 2012 and assuming it is accurate it seems like only 33% or about 3/10th of the world's population was Christian.  I doubt there has been any major significant change. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations#Adherent_estimates_in_2012

It seems like by this logic we already have widespread unbelief and a ton of sin and evil among mankind.  It is like another sign that says there are wars and rumors of wars.  Only problem is mankind has always been riddled with wars and rumors of wars. 

Point is that the signs given are vague and can apply in many contexts and for the most part are tautological in every time period. 

2. When I say 'demons' I'm talking about the nephalim. Now there is alot of speculation regarding them and that's a whole another topic, with the bible not offering much info on them.
But also in the new testement there is a verse that says when pagans serve idols as gods they are really serving demons. 1 Corinthians 10:20
 
I'm not sure what you are asking about in regards to infants? Perhaps you cld fill me in.

I've always thought idols meant statues, stars, moons, animals, planets, money, etc or anything other then God. 

As for infants, I forgot to come back to this fill you in my friend.  During that time, more then likely infants existed.  Even though the population may have been riddled in sin they still had children didn't they and some of these children were babies and infants?  Same thing with Sodom and Gormorrah.  Didn't infants exist.  Yet, all inhabitants save for Noah, his wife, his sons and their wives were smited.  So, if all in a group were killed and infants are part of that group then infants would've been killed to since these infants were not Noah, not noah's wife, not noah's sons, nor his son's wives.  What was these infants sins exactly?  What did they do that displeased God and in their infantile state how could they really choose?

This is one of the aspects of the story that makes me question and have doubts.


3. Ya dont think you are alone. Alot of ppl have struggled with that same conundrum too. Even those with strong faith have persistent doubts.  But we dont need a strong faith to be saved. He says that faith as small as a mustard seed saves.

But, can one choose to have this faith, this Godly faith or does it have to be given to you by God?  Predestination says that one can't choose God b/c one is filled with sin and that it is God who chooses his elect?   So, did you choose God or did he choose you as part of his elect? 

And, even with my family and in a crowd of people I've always felt like I was alone.

So how do I know if I'm saved? Well simply by asking the question I have already admitted that I know I have a need to be saved. Do I believe God sent his son jesus to save me? Yes. BOOM! I know I am saved!

But, what does this mean?  How were you able to even admit this to yourself and to even fully know and realize you needed to be saved?   What was the mechanism that caused?  Again, did you fully choose to realize this or did God help you to realize this and grant you this faith that was needed?   Do you understand what I'm asking?  Can you choose on your own to have this Godly faith required or does God choose to give it to you as part of his elect?  So, why couldn't he say you were a part of his elect?   Another conundrum is how can one choose Godliness if that choice is bound and is a slave to sin?   Do we sinners choose God or does God choose which sinners he will save?


It's that easy. I didnt do anything there. I can take no credit in my being saved, there was no decision on my part. More like a simple revelation and an acceptance of this revelation, in that I didnt reject it. (By reject I dont mean the consistant nagging doubts everyone has,  but a full blown committed decision to reject. But even this can be forgiven if you come back around later)


In other words, God chose you. 


Now many will reject this and they do that many ways. They may decide jesus never existed and the whole thing is fake. They may decide that they are so bad of a person that even God cannot save them. (This happened to Judas after he betrayed jesus) Or the reverse, they may think they are so good a person that they dont need God to save them. (This was sorta the case with the pharisees who believed they earned the right to go to heaven by living such pure and holy lives.) But all of these are based on lies the devil spreads. He cannot take salvation from you, only you can throw it away and even then God will give it back to you if you want it again. The only way he can take salvation from us is by convincing us to take it away from ourselves. And even then God will always take us back again.


Then it begs the question.  How do we as sinful and imperfect human beings suss out what is of God, what is of the Devil and what is of our own vain imaginations, ignorance and stupidity?


4. Revelations is full of alot of wierd prophecies and there is alot of speculation into what they mean. But the point of prophecy isnt to predict the future. It is to show us, once the future arrives, that God always knew the future. Its a little bit like the way Q says "future proves past".


But, then how do we choose the future at all?  How do we really have a choice or free will at all? 

It is thru prophecy we can know the bible is Gods true word because there are literally hundreds of individual prophecies written by dozens of prophets in the old testament pointing to Jesus, all of which jesus fulfilled in the new testament. Very very detailed stuff too. I really encourage you to actually look at the lists of examples of the prophecies and see just how complex they are. Here is a top 40 list I found just by using duck duck go. https://jewsforjesus.org/answers/top-40-most-helpful-messianic-prophecies/

I will do this and take a gander.

But, I just find this whole free will vs determinism and predestination confusing.  Even aspects (especially the figurative language aspects) of the Bible is confusing to me. 

Why couldn't the Bible have been written in a more concrete and literal way? 

 

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