Author Topic: America Was Not Founded Upon Godly Principles.  (Read 4409 times)

Offline kramarat

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Re: America Was Not Founded Upon Godly Principles.
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2013, 12:05:29 AM »
If anyone requests, I can list sixteen proofs for why America was not founded upon so called "Godly Principles."

Essentially, there are mentioned in The Bible none of the "Inalienable Rights" or "Freedoms" stated in America's Founding Documents.  As well, God is never named in America's Founding Documents.  If you disagree with this, then go ahead and state what are America's "Godly Principles."

Answer this grasshopper....................

Why does the back of every bill in my wallet say, "In God We Trust"?

Offline kramarat

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Re: America Was Not Founded Upon Godly Principles.
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2013, 12:22:49 AM »
Here's the problem, grasshopper..................

Libs believe that everything good exists within the human realm.

Libs also believe that if they can gain complete control of everything, they can force everyone to be good.

History is not on your side, little bug.

The difference between you and me, is that I realize that perfection can never be attained by a human being...........forced or not.

Jesus is the closest thing to perfection that we will ever know about..................and he wasn't perfect.

THAT WAS THE POINT!!!

Offline kramarat

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Re: America Was Not Founded Upon Godly Principles.
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2013, 12:42:56 AM »
Damn I yearn for an honest debate with a liberal.

Unfortunately, honest and liberal in the same sentence, is an oxymoron.

Offline Yawn

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Re: America Was Not Founded Upon Godly Principles.
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2013, 06:10:28 AM »
Here's the problem, grasshopper..................

Libs believe that everything good exists within the human realm.

Libs also believe that if they can gain complete control of everything, they can force everyone to be good.

History is not on your side, little bug.

The difference between you and me, is that I realize that perfection can never be attained by a human being...........forced or not.

Jesus is the closest thing to perfection that we will ever know about..................and he wasn't perfect.

I have no idea what you believe, but He could not die for your sins (pay the penalty for His creation) without perfection, as GOD deems perfection.

THAT WAS THE POINT!!!

I have no idea what your beliefs are, but H could not die for your sins without perfection as GOD (not Man) deems perfection.

Offline kramarat

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Re: America Was Not Founded Upon Godly Principles.
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2013, 06:33:51 AM »
I have no idea what your beliefs are, but H could not die for your sins without perfection as GOD (not Man) deems perfection.

Are you saying, that as a human, Jesus was perfect from the day he was born until the day he died? I don't think so.

The point I was making, is that libs think that perfection is attainable in the human realm..................but only if they are in complete control.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 06:38:23 AM by kramarat »

Offline kramarat

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Re: America Was Not Founded Upon Godly Principles.
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2013, 06:58:22 AM »
I have my own beliefs, as far as God, Jesus, and the bible go; they don't always fit with traditional religious doctrine.

The biggest difference is; I would never attempt to impose my personal beliefs on others.

Offline Shooterman

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Re: America Was Not Founded Upon Godly Principles.
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2013, 07:53:32 AM »
Here's the problem, grasshopper..................

Libs believe that everything good exists within the human realm.

Libs also believe that if they can gain complete control of everything, they can force everyone to be good.

History is not on your side, little bug.

The difference between you and me, is that I realize that perfection can never be attained by a human being...........forced or not.

Jesus is the closest thing to perfection that we will ever know about..................and he wasn't perfect.

THAT WAS THE POINT!!!

I beg to differ, Kram. If God is perfect, and we, as Christians, are taught he is, then Jesus, God in the form of man, had to be perfect, as well, else His sacrifice on the cross, would have been for naught.
There's no ticks like Polyticks-bloodsuckers all Davy Crockett 1786-1836

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Offline kramarat

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Re: America Was Not Founded Upon Godly Principles.
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2013, 08:23:25 AM »
I beg to differ, Kram. If God is perfect, and we, as Christians, are taught he is, then Jesus, God in the form of man, had to be perfect, as well, else His sacrifice on the cross, would have been for naught.

I would never say that His death on the cross was for naught; I do, however, have a difference of opinion on several things involving Christian belief. None of them are provable, or even arguable.

I reserve the right to be wrong. Jesus already took my punishment for it, if I am.

Offline Shooterman

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Re: America Was Not Founded Upon Godly Principles.
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2013, 09:30:11 AM »
I would never say that His death on the cross was for naught; I do, however, have a difference of opinion on several things involving Christian belief. None of them are provable, or even arguable.

I reserve the right to be wrong. Jesus already took my punishment for it, if I am.

If He was not perfect, then it was for naught.
There's no ticks like Polyticks-bloodsuckers all Davy Crockett 1786-1836

Yankees are like castor oil. Even a small dose is bad.


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Offline kramarat

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Re: America Was Not Founded Upon Godly Principles.
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2013, 09:58:54 AM »
If He was not perfect, then it was for naught.

I'm not saying that I'm right. I've been discussing this with my wife..................who believes the same as you.

I have difficulty with the idea that Christ, (as a flesh and blood human), lived every day of His life in perfection.

When he was 6-7-8-9-10....................... He never contemplated slapping some idiot upside the head?

I can't fathom that.

Offline MFA

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Re: America Was Not Founded Upon Godly Principles.
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2013, 11:03:22 AM »
I'm not saying that I'm right. I've been discussing this with my wife..................who believes the same as you.

I have difficulty with the idea that Christ, (as a flesh and blood human), lived every day of His life in perfection.

When he was 6-7-8-9-10....................... He never contemplated slapping some idiot upside the head?

I can't fathom that.

Contemplating slapping some idiot upside the head is not a sin.

Offline kramarat

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Re: America Was Not Founded Upon Godly Principles.
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2013, 11:09:52 AM »
Contemplating slapping some idiot upside the head is not a sin.

Nor is it perfection...................which is what we were discussing. Absolute perfection, in human form.

Offline Yawn

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Re: America Was Not Founded Upon Godly Principles.
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2013, 11:43:01 AM »
Humans measure "goodness" and "perfection" differently than God does. Yeshua was perfect and He was without sin, otherwise He could not pay the penalty for anyone's sin.

The Biblical definition of sin? Sin is the transgression (breaking) of the Law (Law of God).--1 John 3:4.  What is the Law of God? The Ten Commandments are the foundation of God's Law (similar to our national Constitution). It forms the basis of all that is God.

Offline kramarat

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Re: America Was Not Founded Upon Godly Principles.
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2013, 11:50:54 AM »
Humans measure "goodness" and "perfection" differently than God does. Yeshua was perfect and He was without sin, otherwise He could not pay the penalty for anyone's sin.

The Biblical definition of sin? Sin is the transgression (breaking) of the Law (Law of God).--1 John 3:4.  What is the Law of God? The Ten Commandments are the foundation of God's Law (similar to our national Constitution). It forms the basis of all that is God.

I'm glad you are secure in your beliefs. No argument here.

Offline MFA

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Re: America Was Not Founded Upon Godly Principles.
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2013, 03:38:55 PM »
Humans measure "goodness" and "perfection" differently than God does. Yeshua was perfect and He was without sin, otherwise He could not pay the penalty for anyone's sin.

The Biblical definition of sin? Sin is the transgression (breaking) of the Law (Law of God).--1 John 3:4.  What is the Law of God? The Ten Commandments are the foundation of God's Law (similar to our national Constitution). It forms the basis of all that is God.

The law is the basis of all that is God?  That's not true.  God's primary characteristic is love, not law.  Even his justice and wrath are expressions of his love.  More than "transgressing God's law," sin is rejection of God.  If sin were only or primarily the breaking of God's law, then Adam and Eve would have been guiltless.

 

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