America Was Not Founded Upon Godly Principles.

Started by JoReba, January 05, 2013, 01:40:57 PM

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Yawn

Because GOD said, "REMEMBER the Sabbath, to keep it Holy. Six days shall you labour, but the SEVENTH DAY (not the first day of the week) is the Sabbath of the Lord your God IN IT YOU SHALL NOT DO ANY WORK.

This isn't hard to understand. The Sabbath is a SPECIAL day in the eyes of God. It is a HOLY CONVOCATION. It is a time we are to set aside from OUR pursuits and give that 24 hour period of time to HIM.

Jesus kept the day, the disciples did too, and so did all the holy prophets. Why do today's Christians hold the day in contempt?

Rather than fight and argue with God, why not surrender to His word? Nothing good comes with fighting against the COMMANDMENTS of God

Yawn

#46
Quote from: kramarat on January 12, 2013, 05:23:36 AM


You are demonstrating what I don't like about religion....................ALL of them claim to be right. :mad:

Interesting that you quoted and respond to me and not the guy who doesn't follow the example of Jesus, the apostles and the prophets.

Do you understand what Jesus meant when he said this...

QuoteThey are like children sitting in the marketplace and calling out to each other: "'We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not cry.'

If you don't like to figure out the TRUTH concerning Christianity, why are you attempting to "participate" in this discussion?  If I don't like a topic, I don't interject myself in the middle of a conversation that I have no knowledge of or any desire to learn. RIGHT NOW, my conversation is with MFA since he seems to have a desire to discuss this issue.

kramarat

Quote from: Yawn on January 12, 2013, 06:09:50 AM
Interesting that you quoted and respond to me and not the guy who doesn't follow the example of Jesus, the apostles and the prophets.

Do you understand what Jesus meant when he said this...

If you don't like to figure out the TRUTH concerning Christianity, why are you attempting to "participate" in this discussion?  If I don't like a topic, I don't interject myself in the middle of a conversation that I have no knowledge of or any desire to learn. RIGHT NOW, my conversation is with MFA since he seems to have a desire to discuss this issue.

I'll say any damned thing I feel like, whenever I want to.

When you call Catholics "the counterfeit" church, and say that Protestants follow a sorcerer............you led me to say exactly what I said.

Your attitude is called " self righteousness".

Yawn

You reject the Bible. It is not the source of your beliefs, therefore you cannot engage in an intelligent conversation on the Bible.  My conversation was with MFA, not with you. You told me how you FEEL, and have not proven your point FROM THE SCRIPTURES.  You are not a Christian if you reject the Bible as the inspired Word of God. Therefore, your opinion is not a part of THIS discussion. FEELINGS have nothing to do with provable facts. Do your homework on the origins of the Catholic Church and the "Peter/Simon" who founded it.

MFA

Quote from: Yawn on January 11, 2013, 07:53:47 PM
The apostle was talking to Gentile CONVERTS who had abandoned their pagan days and festivals (Saturnalia, Ishtar etc), and began observing the Christian Sabbath, the Holy Days (Passover, Pentecost, Trumpets, Tabernacles). The apostle was encouraging them to not accept the judgment of the pagans who judged them for abandoning their former practices for the Sabbath, the New Moon and the Holy days, just as I reject your judgment for observing the Days Yeshua, the disciples and all of the prophets observed.

That's an interesting interpretation.  Don't let anyone judge you means don't let pagans judge you?  Does he mean the same in Romans when he talks about avoiding meat served to idols for the sake of those weak in faith?

You're kind of missing the point, though.  I'm not judging you for keeping the Sabbath.  I have not done so.  I don't know why you think I have.

I have responded to your judgment on those who do not and to your calling of another day (a day that "the Lord made") "Satan's Day."

MFA

Quote from: Yawn on January 11, 2013, 08:07:02 PM
You (Satan) said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; above the stars (angels) of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north -- Isaiah

...the King of Tyre?

QuoteSatan rebelled against God, and has always HATED God's Sabbath. He has deceived the whole world into believing they are worshiping God, but it is only a counterfeit. The SABBATH is God's TEST Commandment. It is the one Commandment that most professing "christians" REJECT and refuse to obey. God's Sabbath is at the end of the week. Satan has substituted God's Sabbath for his day, the FIRST day of the week.

What did Jesus do on the Sabbath?  What does it mean to "rest" on the Sabbath?  What did the priests do on the Sabbath?  What does it mean to "keep" the Sabbath and how do you know that Christians who worship together on Sunday don't keep the Sabbath?

QuoteYou have still not shown me where the day of worship of the true God was changed, or "proof" that the Church ever changed the day (until the Catholic Church -- the counterfeit church -- made thew change hundreds of years after the death and resurrection of Christ).

Hundreds of years?  Okay...

The Apocryphal Gospel of Peter refers to the first day of the week as kyriake--the word traditionally translated as "the Lord's Day."  It is an unambiguous connection of "the Lord's Day" with the first day of the week.  This book was written probably early in the second century--not "hundreds of years" after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

QuoteThe true Church follows Yeshua (Jesus). The Great Counterfeit Church followed Simon Magus. The Daughters of this Church (the Protestants) also follow Simon Magus (the Sorcerer)

Wow.  And you accuse me of judging you? :unsure:

MFA

Quote from: kramarat on January 12, 2013, 05:23:36 AM
Rather than trying to figure out what's what in the Bible, why not make every day God's day?


Yes!  Satan doesn't deserve one and does not have exclusive right to one.  Which day does not belong to God?

MFA

Quote from: Yawn on January 12, 2013, 05:58:35 AM
Because GOD said, "REMEMBER the Sabbath, to keep it Holy. Six days shall you labour, but the SEVENTH DAY (not the first day of the week) is the Sabbath of the Lord your God IN IT YOU SHALL NOT DO ANY WORK.

This isn't hard to understand. The Sabbath is a SPECIAL day in the eyes of God. It is a HOLY CONVOCATION. It is a time we are to set aside from OUR pursuits and give that 24 hour period of time to HIM.

And how do we do that?

QuoteJesus kept the day, the disciples did too, and so did all the holy prophets. Why do today's Christians hold the day in contempt?

Jesus actually exonerated his disciples when they broke the law as given in the Old Testament by breaking the heads off grain to eat.

QuoteRather than fight and argue with God, why not surrender to His word? Nothing good comes with fighting against the COMMANDMENTS of God

And by "His word," what you mean is, what you are saying...

MFA

Quote from: Yawn on January 12, 2013, 11:25:29 AMYou are not a Christian if you reject the Bible as the inspired Word of God.

Watch your judgments again, there buddy.  There were Christians before the Bible was written.  Jesus said, "All authority in heaven and earth has been given to me..."  He never said, "All authority in heaven and earth has been given to those books you will write about me."

The Bible does not say that whoever does not accept the Bible as the inspired Word of God is not a Christian (although it stands to reason to ask where someone who follows Christ is getting his/her information if not from the Bible).

walkstall

Quote from: MFA on January 12, 2013, 11:37:52 AM
Yes!  Satan doesn't deserve one and does not have exclusive right to one.  Which day does not belong to God?

I have yet to understand how long a day is (was) in Gods time.   Or what day of the week God starting working, as I am sure there were no days or weeks at that time. 

I think time was made by man not by God.  If God made 7 days a week, how could one of the 7 days be bad.

How long was a day in Gods time?
A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."

Yawn

Quote from: MFA on January 12, 2013, 11:37:52 AM
Yes!  Satan doesn't deserve one and does not have exclusive right to one.  Which day does not belong to God?

When you HONOR and worship a god on a day HE (your Creator) hasn't sanctified, you are not honoring your Creator, but instead, the god of this world.

The true God, has not given you the option do decide WHICH day is to be set aside to devote to him as a HOLY Day. You cannot make a day holy--only God can tell you which day is holy.

I'm still waiting for proof FROM THE SCRIPTURES, as to where the Sabbath was changed to Sunday.  The Counterfeit Church BRAGS that it alone has changed "Times & Laws" because they have the authority to do so.  THEY (the Counterfeit Church) brags that the fact that modern "christianity" follows THEM (the other Church) is "proof" that they have this authority to do so.

MFA, please provide your proof that the Sabbath was changed or no longer applies.

MFA

Quote from: walkstall on January 12, 2013, 12:00:32 PM
I have yet to understand how long a day is (was) in Gods time.   Or what day of the week God starting working, as I am sure there were no days or weeks at that time.

I agree, and yet God does communicate his rest and mandates the following of his example.

QuoteI think time was made by man not by God.

Do you mean time or the measuring of time?

QuoteIf God made 7 days a week, how could one of the 7 days be bad.

I agree, although God made other things that ended up bad.

MFA

Quote from: Yawn on January 12, 2013, 12:04:54 PM
When you HONOR and worship a god on a day HE (your Creator) hasn't sanctified, you are not honoring your Creator, but instead, the god of this world.

Isn't everything sanctified in Christ?  Are we really to honor God on one day but not on the rest?

QuoteThe true God, has not given you the option do decide WHICH day is to be set aside to devote to him as a HOLY Day. You cannot make a day holy--only God can tell you which day is holy.

I'm still waiting for proof FROM THE SCRIPTURES, as to where the Sabbath was changed to Sunday.

Well, there is evidence but there isn't absolute proof.  I gave you very early historical evidence (from before the "Catholic Church" was the "Roman Catholic Church").  Not sure why that counts for nothing.

In the Colossians passage as well, Paul says that "these things" (i.e., days, festivals, along with food and drink, etc.) are merely "shadows of things to come."

QuoteThe Counterfeit Church BRAGS that it alone has changed "Times & Laws" because they have the authority to do so.  THEY (the Counterfeit Church) brags that the fact that modern "christianity" follows THEM (the other Church) is "proof" that they have this authority to do so.

I think that's a whole different conversation.

QuoteMFA, please provide your proof that the Sabbath was changed or no longer applies.

Well, you're choosing to ignore, first of all, that Jesus exonerated the specific breaking of Sabbath law--because he is Lord of the Sabbath, and that man was not made for the Sabbath but the Sabbath was made for man.

It's funny, though, that you are going on about this without answering exactly how we "keep the Sabbath" or "honor the Sabbath."  Isn't all of this kind of moot until that's cleared up?  I mean, let's say we agree that Saturday is the "Day That Is Meant To Be Kept Holy," but by "keeping it holy" what I mean is "eating at McDonald's"?

I mean, you still haven't clarified what "keeping the Sabbath" means.

It certainly does not mean "gathering for corporate worship" because there are all kinds of examples in the Bible in which people gathered for worship on days that were not the Sabbath.  It also does not mean "universal avoidance of all kinds of work" because Jesus "worked" on the Sabbath and said that "he was doing what his Father was doing" (i.e, working on the Sabbath).

So...what does it mean to "keep the Sabbath"?  Heck, maybe I'm already doing it but I don't even know it...! :wink:

kramarat

Quote from: MFA on January 12, 2013, 11:37:52 AM
Yes!  Satan doesn't deserve one and does not have exclusive right to one.  Which day does not belong to God?

I know that was a rhetorical question.......but none!

I believe the Bible is the word of God, but it is an attempt to get humans to understand the incomprehensible. Both it's writing, and it's various interpretations have been run through the, (imperfect), human filter. Stuff happens.

Humans are capable of screwing up anything they touch.

MFA

Quote from: kramarat on January 12, 2013, 12:54:13 PM
I know that was a rhetorical question.......but none!

I believe the Bible is the word of God, but it is an attempt to get humans to understand the incomprehensible. Both it's writing, and it's various interpretations have been run through the, (imperfect), human filter. Stuff happens.

Humans are capable of screwing up anything they touch.

Yes.  There's no such thing as biblical application without interpretation and interpretation (even aided by the Holy Spirit) is a human endeavor and thus imperfect.  No one person (or church, or denomination) has a monopoly on Bible truth.