Alcohol consumption

[Mountainshield]

Just wondering about your thoughts considering the consumption of alcohol, in specific beer. Both at personal level and from a generalization level. I'm coming from a biased view here and I'm not about projecting illusion of self superiority because I never drink anymore, I know its perfectly viable to drink/party every weekend and at the same time be an educated responsible citizen.

The party culture in Norway is extremely hard, the frat party style of drinking is popular at age 13 and onwards, and even many friends/coworkers still in their 30's and 40's continue this drunkard style of drinking every weekend. And a weekend without this style of drinking is considered booring. If you say that you don't drink alcohol you are looked at as a freak. Many kids become addicts at young age, many drops out of school or get very low scores due to drinking, many teenage girls get pregnant or get sexually active with drinking at young age etc

I personally think the party lifestyle is very detrimental to society, specifically when you have  a representative government. When the more important aspect of your life is drinking yourself stupid then its a given you will end up with corrupt politicians.

Of course not everyone drinking is consumed by the behavior to the point that subjects not related to having fun is important, but from personal experience and statistical studies there is a significant correlation between the two. Of course the cause-effect can be discussed but the fact that Universities are mainly liberal and the place with most consumption of alcohol/marijuana etc is hardly a coincidence.

There are many biblical reasons for not drinking (Isaiah 5:11, Proverbs 23:20, Romans 13:13, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:18, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10) but they all condem drunkeness, and not the actual drinking itself. From this I at least conclude that drinking yourself drunk is a sin, but having enough will to just drink adequate amount of alcohol to not induce drunkeness is acceptable.

Myself I really really enjoy icecold Dutch beer, but usually one can a day. Now though I never drink because of the wife (she hates all alcohol).

Sorry for rambling but to get to my question.

Are you christian or part of any denomination that has explicit views on drinking?
How much do you drink and what is your opinion on party drinking? Also do you see this as negative trend?

[Solar]

Of course, like many, I base my opinion on personal experience, and all has been bad, from an alcoholic father to friends over indulging, and I too have overindulged during my youth.
Nothing, not one damned thing good developed from drinking, and the more one drinks, the greater chance that something horrible will ensue.
Then there is the issue of the following day depression, so there is two days of one's life that were completely wasted.
Then there is the risk of addiction, something I thank God for saving me from, though I still enjoy a shot of fine whiskey once in awhile.

This is one of those things that man learned thousands of years ago that can ruin a thriving culture, the reason we have the Ten Commandments, yet we still have the stupid that walk among us (liberals) that want to destroy the rules that bind society, the things we've all agreed upon for centuries, all in a grand experiment.
One that will take us back to the beginning of time, and tribal warfare, or one dictator rule, which ever comes first.

[Yawn]

Great Britain has the same problem with their youth. Like you said, drinking in moderation is not a sin. Drunkenness is. Who cares what others do or how they perceive you. Like my mom always said, "If your friends jump off a bridge, will you?"

I personally don't drink, because my dad went through my teen years  as a drunk. He sobered up during my later adult years. He was an embarrassing drunk. A father needs to be a MAN and not an embarrassment to his kids.

[JustKari]

I have many friends who choose to never drink, because they do not want people to see them purchasing it and assume they are hypocrites.  I don't personally drink, but it isn't because of the sin vs. not sin question, I had a cousin killed by a drunk driver when I was young, whether it is the negative feelings I have about that, or an actual allergy, I don't know, but drinking makes me physically ill, even in very small amounts.  My husband enjoys a drink now and then, I just don't try to join him anymore.

Drunkenness is sin, as you said, that much is clear.  Drinking in and of itself is not.  Though wine was vastly different then, Jesus' first miracle was turning water into wine for a wedding.

[Moishe3rd]

Well... It depends on the day.  Today being Purim, alcohol consumption is encouraged!
Of course it helps to be Jewish....
But, as this is the first time I have been to this forum in the last hundred years; this is an appropriate topic.
A freilichin Purim to all!

[kramarat]

I'd probably be considered a heavy drinker by today's standards. 4-5 beers a day after work, (Busch, which is pretty weak), and I'll get pretty lit up on either a Friday or Saturday night, with several whiskey drinks followed by a good bit of beer. It's fun.

During the late 60's and early 70's, I was raised in a neighborhood of responsible middle class people, and the weekends were usually floating parties, particularly in the summer. The beers and drinks would flow, and it would usually involve cooking out. The parents drank, and us kids would ride our bikes or play. Nothing terrible ever happened, and on Monday, everybody went back to work.

So yeah. I get together with friends on the weekend and get intoxicated. We'll have music playing, sometimes a bon fire, play music, and we'll either cook steaks, steam oysters, or some other yummy food. Driving is strictly prohibited, (no that anyone tries it), and we'll take turns spending the night at whoever's house that is having the gathering. We don't get falling down drunk, but I'd be lying if I said we weren't buzzed. Things are usually wrapped up by midnight.

That said, I also know that a lot of people aren't capable of taking a measured and responsible approach to moderate intoxication. If they were, we could take the hardcore libertarian stance, and legalize all drugs tomorrow.

[walkstall]

Well... It depends on the day.  Today being Purim, alcohol consumption is encouraged!
Of course it helps to be Jewish....
But, as this is the first time I have been to this forum in the last hundred years; this is an appropriate topic.
A freilichin Purim to all!

Nice that you could drop in Rabbi. 
Thank you and a freilichin Purim to you and your family and friends young man.

[JustKari]

Well... It depends on the day.  Today being Purim, alcohol consumption is encouraged!
Of course it helps to be Jewish....
But, as this is the first time I have been to this forum in the last hundred years; this is an appropriate topic.
A freilichin Purim to all!

Freilichin Purim and welcome back :)

[kramarat]

Well... It depends on the day.  Today being Purim, alcohol consumption is encouraged!
Of course it helps to be Jewish....
But, as this is the first time I have been to this forum in the last hundred years; this is an appropriate topic.
A freilichin Purim to all!

In my case, it helps to be Irish.

Certain things are just expected.

[Mountainshield]

I'd probably be considered a heavy drinker by today's standards. 4-5 beers a day after work, (Busch, which is pretty weak), and I'll get pretty lit up on either a Friday or Saturday night, with several whiskey drinks followed by a good bit of beer. It's fun.

During the late 60's and early 70's, I was raised in a neighborhood of responsible middle class people, and the weekends were usually floating parties, particularly in the summer. The beers and drinks would flow, and it would usually involve cooking out. The parents drank, and us kids would ride our bikes or play. Nothing terrible ever happened, and on Monday, everybody went back to work.

So yeah. I get together with friends on the weekend and get intoxicated. We'll have music playing, sometimes a bon fire, play music, and we'll either cook steaks, steam oysters, or some other yummy food. Driving is strictly prohibited, (no that anyone tries it), and we'll take turns spending the night at whoever's house that is having the gathering. We don't get falling down drunk, but I'd be lying if I said we weren't buzzed. Things are usually wrapped up by midnight.

That said, I also know that a lot of people aren't capable of taking a measured and responsible approach to moderate intoxication. If they were, we could take the hardcore libertarian stance, and legalize all drugs tomorrow.

Enjoy reading the different posts,

Sounds like a wonderfull neighbourhood and community, Norway does not have this community spirit due to low population density. Though we do have church activities that is somewhat similar (but without the alcohol). If the US economy ever recovers I seriously consider emmigrating.

[kramarat]

Enjoy reading the different posts,

Sounds like a wonderfull neighbourhood and community, Norway does not have this community spirit due to low population density. Though we do have church activities that is somewhat similar (but without the alcohol). If the US economy ever recovers I seriously consider emmigrating.

I was raised in a fairly small subdivision out in a pretty rural area. There really wasn't a lot to do, so our parents made their own fun. There was drinking, but for most, there was also church on Sunday. I never associated social drinking with anything bad, but now that I'm older, I've seen the dark side of both alcohol and drugs. They can definitely be bad, but I think the blame lies with the person and their lack of control, not necessarily the substance used. Much like guns don't kill people; alcohol and drugs don't get bad unless they're abused.

[Mountainshield]

I was raised in a fairly small subdivision out in a pretty rural area. There really wasn't a lot to do, so our parents made their own fun. There was drinking, but for most, there was also church on Sunday. I never associated social drinking with anything bad, but now that I'm older, I've seen the dark side of both alcohol and drugs. They can definitely be bad, but I think the blame lies with the person and their lack of control, not necessarily the substance used. Much like guns don't kill people; alcohol and drugs don't get bad unless they're abused.

Thats whats so dangerous about socialized healthcare or state subsidized healthcare whatever you want to call it. And this is also something that bothers me ALOT about libertarians-liberals. I agree in the ideal world drugs should be free, but when its the taxpayers who have to put up with the bill, then there is no moral/economic justification for legalization of drugs.

In norway you have government heroin clinics, where if you are a registered heroin addict you can get free heroin and free needles. The justification is that it will lead to less crime, but the problem is not punishing/imprisoning them long enough in the first case. And less crime argument is essentially blackmail/terrorim. Give me money or I will commit crime logic.

Same with alcohol, it's more socially acceptable because of tradition, but when I have to pay for someone else not being able to handle the liquor then he shouldnt have the right to drink in the first place, because he is not a independent citizen, he is dependent on other peoples money.

[kramarat]

Thats whats so dangerous about socialized healthcare or state subsidized healthcare whatever you want to call it. And this is also something that bothers me ALOT about libertarians-liberals. I agree in the ideal world drugs should be free, but when its the taxpayers who have to put up with the bill, then there is no moral/economic justification for legalization of drugs.

In norway you have government heroin clinics, where if you are a registered heroin addict you can get free heroin and free needles. The justification is that it will lead to less crime, but the problem is not punishing/imprisoning them long enough in the first case. And less crime argument is essentially blackmail/terrorim. Give me money or I will commit crime logic.

Same with alcohol, it's more socially acceptable because of tradition, but when I have to pay for someone else not being able to handle the liquor then he shouldnt have the right to drink in the first place, because he is not a independent citizen, he is dependent on other peoples money.

I don't think it's a matter of jail time. Drugs and alcohol have been around for a long time, and there were always a few that got addicted. I think the big problems came along when they, (drugs), were made illegal, which glamorized them and made them far more expensive; combined with the liberal midset that crept in, in which no one is responsible for their own actions, or even their own lives.

[Solar]

I don't think it's a matter of jail time. Drugs and alcohol have been around for a long time, and there were always a few that got addicted. I think the big problems came along when they, (drugs), were made illegal, which glamorized them and made them far more expensive; combined with the liberal midset that crept in, in which no one is responsible for their own actions, or even their own lives.

The libertarians in the Haight thought the same thing about the hippies in the 60s, till they trashed the place.

[kramarat]

The libertarians in the Haight thought the same thing about the hippies in the 60s, till they trashed the place.

Yeah. It also turned sour when the hard drugs came into the scene. I don't know the answer. What I do know, is that our laws don't prevent anyone from doing any drug they choose, whenever they want to. If preventing drug use was the goal, it's been a complete failure.

It's too late to turn back the clock, but I think the approach to drugs should have been to shame people out of using them. If drugs were around, (which they already are), and they were looked at as something that losers do, I think less people would use them. Kind of like picking your nose in public. It's not against the law, but most people just don't do it.

Of course, using drugs is yet another thing that the left has worked hard on, to present as cool.