Christian view of Liberalism

[milos]

It is a tribute to the strenght of christianity that politicians and media do everything in their power in futile attempt to crush christianity, they are so afraid of people's faith in God that they have to spend incredible amount of resources to ridicule christianity. The Norse religion in addition to being pagan and heretic was weak, it was a horrible blueprint for civil society. Odin and Thor pagans was crushed by the forces of Olav Tryggvason with the blessing of God, and society went from slavery based agriculture to yeoman agrarianism.

Yes. The atheists, they just don't want to believe, so they want us to give them the proofs God exists. I like to reply on this that the life itself is a proof - because God is Life. And the pagans, I can understand them. They think pagan beliefs are the roots of their national identity. I agree they are, but for me as a Christian our pagan roots are now just a cultural background, and not a belief. Because, polytheism doesn't make any sense to me - God can be only one for everyone, the Creator of everything and everyone.

Thanks for the perspective and knowledge on Habsburg Empire.

Maybe the Holy Roman Empire was better, because it was predominantly German, and the kingdoms, and principalities, and free cities, etc, from which it consisted of, were mostly equal in their rights I suppose. At the other side, the Habsburg Empire was quite different, all other peoples except Austrians were feeling enslaved. There was a famous partially successful national revolution of 1848-49. And only Hungarians got their kingdom in 1867 when the empire was redefined as Austro-Hungarian. All other peoples were dissatisfied.

Regarding the US/Nato led intervention I have always been pro intervention with regards to ending the conflict, however the terms imposed by the US/EU were detrimental to both the peace effort and in promoting stability. Serbians was blamed for a war that they did not start. And I apologize on behalf of my government in not granting Milošević amnesty. Even though not innocent, there were no innocent political leaders in that war and it was wrong to blame serbia for the war just as it was wrong to blame germany for ww1. We might disagree on the likes of Arkan however, but this is not important.

Well, regarding Kosovo, I think the intervention didn't end the conflict, it just helped one side, but the conflict is still there. Milošević was a criminal and a traitor to most Serbs, including me. Do you know that during the war of 1991-1995 between Serbs and Croats, their presidents, Slobodan Milošević and Franjo Tuđman, were best buddies at the same time? They had a deal to rob their peoples, and they have jointly put the stolen money on their bank accounts in Cyprus and France, billions of euros. And regarding the war in Bosnia, as determined by the UN Hague Tribunal, Serbs were 100% guilty, Croats were 50% guilty - 50% innocent, and Muslims were 100% innocent, while all sides did war crimes. Selective justice is not a justice, but just a political propaganda. About Arkan, well, he is not important. He was an agent of Yugoslav secret service before the war, and during the war he was a criminal, and he probably did some war crimes. (He did crimes in Serbia as well.)

I was under the impression however that the Serbian populace at large wants to become a full EU member, how is Serbian society today with regards to Christianity and the EU?

Regarding Christianity, around 90% of people are formally Christian (80% Serbian Orthodox). But, you know, there is a difference in being a proclaimed Christian and a true believer Christian. The latter are maybe a couple of percent, but it is not up to me to judge, just saying my opinion. There are also some atheists and pagans. Regarding EU, a few year ago there were 80% of supporters and 20 % of non supporters. Regarding NATO however, the situation was opposite - 20% of supporters and 80% of non supporters. But nowdays, people realise EU will blackmail us to recognize Kosovo independence if we want to join EU, so the support to EU has fallen to less than 50%. I myself think European Union is a communist organization which does not represent true European values. It seems Germany is our largest obstacle for joining EU, so if we are finally not accepted into EU, I will be glad to shout out loud: Danke Deutschland! Ha ha, Angela, please, don't let us in!

[Mountainshield]

Yes. The atheists, they just don't want to believe, so they want us to give them the proofs God exists. I like to reply on this that the life itself is a proof - because God is Life. And the pagans, I can understand them. They think pagan beliefs are the roots of their national identity. I agree they are, but for me as a Christian our pagan roots are now just a cultural background, and not a belief. Because, polytheism doesn't make any sense to me - God can be only one for everyone, the Creator of everything and everyone.

I agree, as a norwegian I love my cultural heritage, and I like reading Håvamål and think it is important to preserve artififacts for future generations as this is our identity, but where I differ from some other norwegians is in the signficance of Norse religion as they tend to romanticize pagan belief when in fact you read håvamål and see it's application to society it is not a civil society, and it stagnated Scandinavia economic/cultural progress.

Maybe the Holy Roman Empire was better, because it was predominantly German, and the kingdoms, and principalities, and free cities, etc, from which it consisted of, were mostly equal in their rights I suppose. At the other side, the Habsburg Empire was quite different, all other peoples except Austrians were feeling enslaved. There was a famous partially successful national revolution of 1848-49. And only Hungarians got their kingdom in 1867 when the empire was redefined as Austro-Hungarian. All other peoples were dissatisfied.

Thats true, the Holy Roman Empire was more  a political confederation than a federal system, if you don't have representation in your government (I don't necessarily mean democratic representation) then you also don't have any loyalty to the institutions. As you said the mayor flaw of the Habsburg Empire was not creating a sense of loyalty and give ethnic groups representations.

Well, regarding Kosovo, I think the intervention didn't end the conflict, it just helped one side, but the conflict is still there. Milošević was a criminal and a traitor to most Serbs, including me. Do you know that during the war of 1991-1995 between Serbs and Croats, their presidents, Slobodan Milošević and Franjo Tuđman, were best buddies at the same time? They had a deal to rob their peoples, and they have jointly put the stolen money on their bank accounts in Cyprus and France, billions of euros. And regarding the war in Bosnia, as determined by the UN Hague Tribunal, Serbs were 100% guilty, Croats were 50% guilty - 50% innocent, and Muslims were 100% innocent, while all sides did war crimes. Selective justice is not a justice, but just a political propaganda. About Arkan, well, he is not important. He was an agent of Yugoslav secret service before the war, and during the war he was a criminal, and he probably did some war crimes. (He did crimes in Serbia as well.)

I see i'm sorry for my ignorant statement then, I never knew that fact about Slobodan Milošević and Franjo Tuđman. History is more incredible than fiction, disgusting corruption. The UN Hague Tribunal is no more about justice than the UN commission for human rights is about preventing genocide or oppression, the whole UN is rotten to the core.

Regarding Christianity, around 90% of people are formally Christian (80% Serbian Orthodox). But, you know, there is a difference in being a proclaimed Christian and a true believer Christian. The latter are maybe a couple of percent, but it is not up to me to judge, just saying my opinion. There are also some atheists and pagans. Regarding EU, a few year ago there were 80% of supporters and 20 % of non supporters. Regarding NATO however, the situation was opposite - 20% of supporters and 80% of non supporters. But nowdays, people realise EU will blackmail us to recognize Kosovo independence if we want to join EU, so the support to EU has fallen to less than 50%. I myself think European Union is a communist organization which does not represent true European values. It seems Germany is our largest obstacle for joining EU, so if we are finally not accepted into EU, I will be glad to shout out loud: Danke Deutschland! Ha ha, Angela, please, don't let us in!

Yeah, Norway is only EØS member and have the option to opt out, which has served Norway well since the EU parliament has become communist. We don't have to follow the EU regulations, but still we pay taxes to the fatcats in Brussels.

How can Serbia survive without the EU? Hungary for example, being a landlocked country is wholly dependent on the EU for trade, even though China is the mayor trading partner the EU has threatened to stop all imports/exports from Hungary if they leave the EU or don't enforce EU regulations. Serbia also being a landlocked country looks to be in almost the same situation as Hungary. With still 50% supporters for the EU I guess Serbia continue to have many communist like all other european countries that want to welcome the EU and corrupt politicians that want to profit at the expense of the country. I wholly agree with you about the EU, I was a supporter before, but that was before I knew how far left the EU had fallen. I watch a lot of videos from the EU parliament I often see right wing politicians being banned from the assembly for nothing more than stating facts, it is not a democratic organization.

[milos]

How can Serbia survive without the EU? Hungary for example, being a landlocked country is wholly dependent on the EU for trade, even though China is the mayor trading partner the EU has threatened to stop all imports/exports from Hungary if they leave the EU or don't enforce EU regulations. Serbia also being a landlocked country looks to be in almost the same situation as Hungary. With still 50% supporters for the EU I guess Serbia continue to have many communist like all other european countries that want to welcome the EU and corrupt politicians that want to profit at the expense of the country.

Some people here are just stupid, they think if we join EU, the money will start falling from the skies. Serbia can survive without EU. We have huge agricultural resources, including very fertile land and clean water. Also some excellent tourist destinations, like Belgrade with its history spots, night life, and low prices, or country tourism with awesome nature and fresh air and healthy organic food. We produce our own electricity. We had industry once, we can have it again. We are producing aircraft of our own design, so we have technology. Also, we hold the most important geostrategic position in the center of Balkans, large part of Danube, and main land road from Europe to Middle East. Europe just can't ignore us. We plan to build a channel from Danube to Aegean sea, along the rivers of Morava and Vardar, to connect to the seaport of Salonika. But, our most difficult problem are our corrupted politicians. They are destroying our country, stealing our money together with mafia, and moving it outside the country. I am not sure Hungary is dependant on EU either, but their politicians are probably corrupted, too.

[Mountainshield]

Some people here are just stupid, they think if we join EU, the money will start falling from the skies. Serbia can survive without EU. We have huge agricultural resources, including very fertile land and clean water. Also some excellent tourist destinations, like Belgrade with its history spots, night life, and low prices, or country tourism with awesome nature and fresh air and healthy organic food. We produce our own electricity. We had industry once, we can have it again. We are producing aircraft of our own design, so we have technology. Also, we hold the most important geostrategic position in the center of Balkans, large part of Danube, and main land road from Europe to Middle East. Europe just can't ignore us. We plan to build a channel from Danube to Aegean sea, along the rivers of Morava and Vardar, to connect to the seaport of Salonika. But, our most difficult problem are our corrupted politicians. They are destroying our country, stealing our money together with mafia, and moving it outside the country. I am not sure Hungary is dependant on EU either, but their politicians are probably corrupted, too.

It is true, Hungary can survive without the EU with is why they are developing closer ties with China in order to shift trade from the EU. The communist party of Hungary sold off all states assets, banks and resources to European firms for personal profit and then sent the capital gained from these sales to their personal bank accounts. Hungary have many corrupt politicians but they do have now a new group of patriotic and some nationalist politicians that want to save their country and who are not corrupt. The problem is the EU is punishing election results in Hungary with economic sanctions in attempt to force the hungarian people to accept the communist back into power even though they were voted out (democracy in action no?). The Communist also shut down the power plants in Hungary making the country dependent and vassal of Austrian power companies. the EU also set up a telecommunication cartell to control all of Hungarys communication, in march when Hungary was experiencing a blizzard catastrophy these companies wanted huge payment from the government just to send out warning messages, when the hungarian right wing government took matters into its own hands and sent out the warning messages without paying the ludicrious price the EU commission fined Hungary for it...

Another thing, the communist in Hungary made it possible to retire at age 21 if you get a doctor certificate that says you are alcoholic, so now Hungary has over 1 million registered alcoholics recieving wellfare thanks to the communists policy. Great nationbuilding right?

If the EU sets up a trade blockade of hungary then hungary is doomed, the communist have destroyed hungarian agriculture and sold off land to foreigners. If Serbia still has its agriculture and infrastructure then you are on the right track, I pray Serbia will stay independent of the EU. Infrastructure plans like the one you stated here is exactly the type of thing taxes should go too, not wellfare parasites or politicians.

I wish there was an answer to Europe's socialist/communist and their corrupt politicians, they don't produce anything and only ruin our economies.

[milos]

If the EU sets up a trade blockade of hungary then hungary is doomed, the communist have destroyed hungarian agriculture and sold off land to foreigners. If Serbia still has its agriculture and infrastructure then you are on the right track, I pray Serbia will stay independent of the EU. Infrastructure plans like the one you stated here is exactly the type of thing taxes should go too, not wellfare parasites or politicians.

Thank you for the detailed info on Hungary. Serbia still has its agriculture, but our government tries to sell it to some United Arab Emirates' company, behind which it turned out lies Albanian mafia's capital. Previous governments have already sold some water resources and spas to Coca-Cola. So, we are on the same track Hungary was, and it seems people can do nothing to stop that. It is currently one of the most important issues here, but almost all politicians support this sellout of country, both in the government and in the opposition. And those remained political parties and NGOs who speak against this are being silenced in medias, or proclaimed fascist, or banned.

[Troubleshooter]

The problem with liberalism in the US is that they want the freedom to disobey a religion while taking away the right of the religious person to obey his own religion. Two cases follow:

- They demand that all health insurance must pay for abortions and contraception. They also demand that all people must buy health insurance. This forces the religious person who believes that abortion or contraception is wrong to violate his beliefs.

- They demand hiring equality for homosexuals. This causes the religious person to disobey any requirement to not have long-term association with people who deliberately disobey the religion in public.

Note that homosexuality has the death penalty in Islamic Sharia law. Using a US law to force a Muslim who believes Sharia law to hire a homosexual might result in the mysterious death of that homosexual.

[Nicoled789]

Hi!! I am new here!!! I am a 33 year old stay at home, CHRISTIAN and CONSERVATIVE mom, things are so tight right now that we have not even paid rent yet this month... But I am not and will not take a government hand out! What I have decided to do instead is to start my own business, one that I can be proud of and one that will be able to help others in TRUE need. You know, the ones that have found themselves in a difficult spot because of uncontrollable circumstances, not laziness or a desire to be taken care of by others instead of working hard! I was wondering, if there was any way possible that you all may help me spread the word?!?! I have no money of my own to get it going, but I started a kickstarter campaign to hopefully get the ball rolling. It is called G-Word and it is based on the premise that GOD is not a Four letter word. I just need to reach 1500 people in the next 41 days. I do not want to be so forward as to simply post the link and complete info without someones permission, but if you say it is ok, I will send it :)

Please know, from the bottom of my heart, if there is nothing you can do to help me spread the word, I COMPLETELY understand, and will never think any less of you.. I am now and will continue to use the Forum!!

Respectfully,

Nicole

[walkstall]

Hi!! I am new here!!! I am a 33 year old stay at home, CHRISTIAN and CONSERVATIVE mom, things are so tight right now that we have not even paid rent yet this month... But I am not and will not take a government hand out! What I have decided to do instead is to start my own business, one that I can be proud of and one that will be able to help others in TRUE need. You know, the ones that have found themselves in a difficult spot because of uncontrollable circumstances, not laziness or a desire to be taken care of by others instead of working hard! I was wondering, if there was any way possible that you all may help me spread the word?!?! I have no money of my own to get it going, but I started a kickstarter campaign to hopefully get the ball rolling. It is called G-Word and it is based on the premise that GOD is not a Four letter word. I just need to reach 1500 people in the next 41 days. I do not want to be so forward as to simply post the link and complete info without someones permission, but if you say it is ok, I will send it :)

Please know, from the bottom of my heart, if there is nothing you can do to help me spread the word, I COMPLETELY understand, and will never think any less of you.. I am now and will continue to use the Forum!!

Respectfully,

Nicole

If you know how to use our PM (private message system) you can cover that with Solar.   You will see his name throughout the board, just click on his name and you can send him a PM and talk it over with him. 

Welcome to the board by the way.