Quote from: Hoofer on June 13, 2017, 04:02:20 AM
You're not a *real* teacher in a public school, in fact, you can be replaced by a fledgling church organist.  You're a Troll.

I was correct to question your honesty, you've misrepresented yourself and much more of this nonsense would only serve to piss off dedicated teachers and honest, hard working, Union members.  This is truly laughable!

How high up in the union is this Lib?  Wow a music teacher.  My wife can do that at home.  Reading, writing, and arithmetic with out this you can not get a good job. 

Quote from: Proud teacher on June 12, 2017, 10:53:21 PM
Standardized testing is overemphasized, but it is not a complete joke. I teach music, so state/national standardized testing isn't a part of my regular work life. However, I've asked teachers in my building how they feel about it. The general consensus is that it takes more time than it should and carries more weight than it should, but that it tells them a lot of information about their students that is useful. Preparing for testing is only part of what teachers do, though. Often times, they design really exciting, worth while, real world lessons that also prepare kids for doing well on standardized testing. Just because we are teaching basic skills does not mean we are abandoning higher level ones. It is possible to do more than one thing at a time.

It is not BS that charter schools lack funding for basic supplies and for teacher salaries. Or, at least, it is not how they end up using those funds. I have read requests from teachers at charter schools begging for supplies that we have in abundance: paper, pencils, art supplies, and musical instruments just to name a few. I wish students were getting supplies that would put them on equal footing with public schools or private schools. Unfortunately, that isn't always happening. It gets even more complicated when for-profit companies attempt to run charter schools.How do you suppose they save enough money to turn a profit?

Curriculum isn't handed down to me from the school board. It is designed by teachers with a background in the subject and is constantly being reviewed and changed. I've been designing the music curriculum in my district collectively with other music teachers for 11 years. Even then, the curriculum doesn't take up every lesson I teach. There is lots of room for exploration of areas that I feel it is important for students to learn that goes beyond the curriculum. Meanwhile, the school board has to decide which teacher developed initiatives to fund to improve student learning. Some of them are ideas I've mentioned in previous posts. Others include a program to teach children with IQ's exceeding 145 and a high school that partners with local businesses and nonprofits to solve real world problems and offer students on the job experience before they graduate.
Text books are a good starting point, but are far from the whole story. I use the textbooks primarily as references to find suitable songs for my students to learn. Rarely, I find a good lesson or two. A text book cannot teach a student to match pitch when they sing. I can. Not everyone can, and a text book definitely can't.
A textbook cannot teach a student proper instrumental technique. I can.  Not everyone can, and a text book definitely can't. A textbook cannot offer critical feedback on performance interpretation or help students develop their own opinion of how a piece should be performed. I can. Not every teacher can, and a textbook definitely can't.

Could I teach a science lesson from a text book? Yes. At best, all I would do is present the lesson effectively, though. I lack the depth of background to really know how to take it beyond, to the point where an indifferent student might look up and say, "wait a minute. This is interesting." That is why specialization matters to students.

I know a former music teacher who now works at a church. Her church has a lot of home schoolers. She has shared her concerns about the fact that the home school children in her music ministry lack a lot of the basic musical foundations of public school students that she sees. I suggested that she offer music classes to home schoolers to rectify this. I don't know if she's taken on this mission, but she seemed very excited about the idea. There are holes left in a home school education sometimes.

A few years ago, you might have been right. I might have been satisfied to find the one example of an awful home educator and close the book. I don't feel that way anymore. I am not an expert on home school, but I have come to the conclusion based on what I do know that it can be done well, and often is. Sometimes it is not, and I'm not sure how those children are helped. The same is true of public schools. However, when we mess up, we're out front. People can see. Is there transparency for home schooling gone awry? I really hope so.

Regarding your comments on child abuse, yes, you can find examples of teachers doing deplorable things to students. If you can't find as many articles about home educators doing the same, perhaps it is because it is harder for kids to turn in their parents. According to the National Children's Alliance, about 4 out 5 child abusers are parents of their victims.

http://www.nationalchildrensalliance.org/media-room/media-kit/national-statistics-child-abuse

Let me be clear: I do not believe that any kind of majority of home educators are abusive. Nor do I believe it to be a small minority. It is a very small group of any set of adults that does these things.  Personally, I am very confident that you love your children and would never hurt them. However, just as it is fair for you to worry about what your teachers are doing, we care, too. We worry about what is happening to children. I was asked what I worry about with home schooling, and that is one thing.

Every child benefits from some one-on-one instruction. Regarding disabled children, they are most successful in their least restrictive environment. For some, that is a lot of time one on one. For others, it is in a social setting surrounded by typically functioning peers most of the day. For some, it depends on the subject area.

A parent's love trumps that of a teacher's. No question. However, teachers aren't disconnected. We care deeply for our students, and sometimes a little bit of distance helps people see things clearer, or gives us the ability to help in ways that a parent cannot. This is why it is really effective when parents and teachers work together.

You misunderstood your own question. You asked me about rhetoric regarding non-union workers and how it compared it to home school students. I told you that I didn't see much comparison between home school students and non-union workers. Then, I shared what the discussion is about non-union workers in liberal circles. it centers around low paid non-union workers, mostly.

I do worry about the vast income inequality in this country a lot. I wonder what we can do as a society to help those who are not in a union advocate for themselves. Many of them cannot live a life where they can offer home schooling to their kids. I think unions can be a part of that solution, but certainly not the only solution. You don't have to believe my sincerity about that, but I am quite sincere when I say that it deeply troubles me. No, I do not spend time feeling sorry for home schoolers. I don't have to. Almost all of them are fine.
Free thinking leaves room for many ideas and many possible right answers. There are lots of ways to learn. Home schooling is one way to teach a child. It can be effective in some circumstances and ineffective in others. It is an option for some children and not for others. The same can be truthfully said about public education as well. Advocating for "the only answer" does not sound like free thinking to me.

Just so you know, I'll be moving this to Miscellaneous later, after you've had a chance to see this post.

I'm not sure you realize this, but public school through the Fed was more about indoctrination and conformity than it was about advancing the individual's intellectual capacity, that was the job of the college if one so chooses, this is why the Fed did what they did regarding standardization, they wanted to maintain a uniformity of ideals and advance American culture.
An experiment that made us who and what we were, but the left has destroyed our former culture, and kept the formula in place to create a culture of?
'Fill in the bllank_________', but regardless, the left succeeded in destroying American culture.
Do you agree, or will you deny what they're doing? Why do you think the left fights so hard against vouchers?

Quote from: The Boo Man... on June 12, 2017, 09:25:16 PM
Not this again...

  At least he hasn't tried to explain why libs get a pass for murdering children yet expect him to be the parent substitute, but won't support any school trying to teach both sides.

THAT is the leftist objection to charter schools or particularly to home schooling, which denies the state the chance to wreck your child's brain, destroy all reasoning power, and subjugate him or her to the interests of the all-powerful state. The real slavery is the union member forced to payt duies fdor a cause hge or she does not support. To hold the job, they must pay those dues. Please explainm why that is not a bribe, a kickback, and utterly corrupt.

Then there's the kiddies.

Every time I read of some college allowing creampuff snivelers their newest safe space, multisex facility or erosion of decent people's rights, the egg here is the college and the chicken's the cluck who blindly allows a Mob of shake-down artists to brazenly extort monthly dues, merely to hold their job.

Administrators formed unions, then the assistants. All of them paying to tell their employers what to do, parasites on our public dime, fearful of offering a balanced education or be ostracized by their peers. Thweir peers always matter more than the kids. Kids do not write performance evaluations.

How many unionized classrooms salute the Flag of the United States of America? How many EVER explain the difference between a Republic for which it stands --- and the democracy leftists so openly wish it would become? Sorry! We're socialists! We don't believe in honest elections, free speech, or freedom of thought! Conform, damn you! We will teach you to know better!

Does any educated intelligent America believe that if schools actually TAUGHT civics and the workings of the Electoral College, we would still have gotten Al Gore playing Supreme Court games, or Hillary Clinton mewling over "popular vote"?

How many HIGH SCHOOLS (say, grades 9-12) require one complete semester of one-hour classes each school weekday on how our Constitution and our system of government factually work? Instead, it's rolled into "social studies" or similar titles, glossed over while talking about George Washington's slaves instead of the terrible risks those same Dead White Males undertook so today's leftists can trash their mighty efforts.

Say there, patriot! When's the last time you had someone in military uniform in your classroom, explaining why that teacher is free to teach whatever she does? Or will she stand proudly at the schoolhouse doors, Democrat George Wallace style, keepin' that horrible reality from their eyes?

The same mob of union thugs depriving our kids of both sides ALSO can't devote one hour every classroom day for an entire semester in grades 9 through 12 to make them better citizens. They are not taught what BOTH parties must know, starting with "the Republic for which it stands" --- we are not a democracy and any Hillary Clinton snivel to the contrary, she lost by legitimate tally and now is just a whining bitter has-been. But that's not being taught either, can't imagine why.

Small wonder today's teachers can't support our military; they're too gutless to defend what we have, so surrender now to avoid the rush.

Ah --- surrender! What results ARE those enlightened leftists getting with that one-size-fits-all garbage? ("Oh, we can't interrupt today's work plan or else we can't stuff their heads with the test answers needed to make ME look good on my quarterly reviews---can we?")

Admit failure? Fuhgeddaboudit, your kid is freaking stupid!

(For Gaia's sake here! Can't these fools just accept it that I failed as a teacher and instead pawned the kid off to Special Education --- who conveniently discover a new Learning Disability every time we graduate too many in the other sub-categories? THAT crowd aren't on the same clock! They don't have tests their kids must pass! Hey you in the back row! Here's what to think about this. Don't question it or make me slow down, oversimplifying until the intelligent kids get bored but I accomplished my goal of reaching all students! Yay me! Can I get a Teacher of the WEAK out of it, maybe?

Ah me, how transparent today's undereducated overweening unionists have become, still claiming to be anything save the propagandists that they are, filling kindergardeners' heads with pervert-tolerance filth while dressing our girls as Muslims to get them ready for the downfall you so openly wish for America.

Why is it not a failure to assume a parent's rights and dispense birth control or refer (or even transport) pregnant girls to an infanticide center? By what moral right does any teacher usurp parental control and yet deserve their tax-paid salary, assisting in the homicide of an unborn American citizen? When's the last time schools stressed ADOPTION over cold-blooded barbaric murder?

Teachers are certainly not shy about undermining the Constitution, promoting degenerates, proflifigacy and liberal lies galore. Small wonder charter schools and home schools are winning --- they teach our kids to win, not just be average.

Well hell since we are on the topic of teachers, students, and public education I guess  some students will just have to get sent back to the
"re-ed-u-ma-cation camp".

Meanwhile the teachers will take it upon themselves to correct this wrong from a student.

Trump logos censored in students' yearbook photos

A New Jersey high school has suspended a teacher who served as yearbook adviser after students discovered that logos on their clothing supporting Republican President Donald Trump were censored from their yearbook photos.

Susan Parsons — a technology/media teacher at Wall High School — was suspended Monday, officials at Wall Township Public Schools told NJ.com. Parsons couldn't be reached by phone Monday, the outlet reported, a message to her district email account was returned as "undeliverable" and a woman reached at her listed address in Wall Township declined to comment.

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/06/13/trump-logos-censored-in-students-yearbook-photos-and-faculty-adviser-is-suspended/

Quote from: Bronx on June 13, 2017, 07:38:08 AM
A New Jersey high school has suspended a teacher who served as yearbook adviser after students discovered that logos on their clothing supporting Republican President Donald Trump were censored from their yearbook photos.

Good. The 9th Circus won't hear the lawsuits arising from this.

Facetious as it may sound, it is an American rite of passage that if you want to, you may appear as you wish in your one enduring image of that 12-year phase of your life. Be it a Mohawk or six colors and braids --- it's a tradition. Wear tube tops and later swear you went topless. It's the American High School Thang™.

This however is fraud. The student is buying the yearbook expecting to appear as he/she/ confused actually wanted. The right shyster can earn those kids some fat rewards.

Quote from: Bronx on June 13, 2017, 07:38:08 AM
Well hell since we are on the topic of teachers, students, and public education I guess  some students will just have to get sent back to the
"re-ed-u-ma-cation camp".

Meanwhile the teachers will take it upon themselves to correct this wrong from a student.

Trump logos censored in students' yearbook photos

A New Jersey high school has suspended a teacher who served as yearbook adviser after students discovered that logos on their clothing supporting Republican President Donald Trump were censored from their yearbook photos.

Susan Parsons — a technology/media teacher at Wall High School — was suspended Monday, officials at Wall Township Public Schools told NJ.com. Parsons couldn't be reached by phone Monday, the outlet reported, a message to her district email account was returned as "undeliverable" and a woman reached at her listed address in Wall Township declined to comment.

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/06/13/trump-logos-censored-in-students-yearbook-photos-and-faculty-adviser-is-suspended/

Next, they'll prohibit Christian attire like crosses.
While other schools allow:



http://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/washakie-county-school-officials-ok-gay-senior-s-yearbook-photo/article_255ede77-891b-5faf-8a1f-ebe95ed21a74.html

This was published today and says a lot:

School: You may not recite prayer in the name of Jesus Christ

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/06/13/school-may-not-recite-prayer-in-name-jesus-christ.html

"In short, school officials – in violation of the First Amendment – forced Moriah to censor her personal remarks during the closing exercise of her commencement ceremony merely because of the religious viewpoint of her remarks," the attorney said. "Because of Dr. Rowe's instructions, Moriah was muzzled and restrained by school officials on the penultimate day of her high school career."

The article says that the school broke the law - but, even so, this sentiment is prevalent throughout much of the school system.

Okay, I don't have time right now to respond specifically to everyone, but the basic comments fall under a few categories.

#1. You're a music teacher? That's not a real teacher! Also, you didn't tell us.

I am a real teacher. I have taken the same education classes as all the other teachers, including many of those in private and charter schools. My master's degree is in education. I have answered questions put to me regardless of what the tone of the question was. No one asked what I taught, what my school is like, what students I work with, although someone did ask about the other teachers I work with.

The music industry is a $15 billion industry in the US. I teach my students the basic skills necessary to participate in that sector of the economy. Also, if you want God in your schools, tradition upheld, and patriotism as part of the curriculum, the music teacher is your best bet.

My student's bread and butter daily work is folk music. I don't mean the stuff by Peter, Paul, and Mary. I mean the real old, traditional stuff that has been a part of American culture for generations. The stuff your great grandfathers sang around the fire. If teachers like me didn't teach it, it could get lost and replaced by Katie Perry. Yuck.

I teach every fourth grader "The Star Spangled Banner." Meaning that, for a grade, they have to sing it by themselves and get every single word right. If they don't, they don't pass the test. Then, they have to meet with me at recess, before school, and/or after school until they can do it right. I also teach them the history surrounding the song. It's a story all about our country in a time of war and the United States triumphing. After learning it, they critique different performers' versions. I don't tell them what to think, and they often get very critical of their favorite pop stars when it is not performed with what they consider to be the proper respect.

Reading, writing, and 'rhythmatic? Got it covered. Even though it's not my primary focus, it all happens.

Reading: We read song lyrics all the time in all grade levels. Doing that is one of the best way to help struggling readers get ahead. Not to mention the opportunities for literary analysis of the words.

Writing: I just wrapped up a concert where my 5th graders were pen palling with a choir of senior citizens. I taught them how to write a letter to another person. Not only did I correct grammar and spelling errors, I taught them how to ask questions to keep the conversation going and to value the wisdom and experiences with their elders.

Arithmetic: music is applied math. Counting rhythms teaches children how to count in base 2, 3, or 4. Understanding how those rhythms function in music requires me to cover fractions. We talk about the distance between pitches in a melody. Then, I make them put it into action by performing these pieces. This is not that different from a science project in the role math plays.

Also, choir is a place where students often raise their voices in song to God. In the public schools. I almost always perform some sacred music in my choir. It would be an omission of some of the best music ever written to leave it out. Don't sell music short. It can be the part of public education that best aligns with the values you feel are being marginalized.

#2. You live in a bubble.
We all live in a bubble. Different bubbles. It's getting worse, too. We have reached the point in society where the other side must be not only wrong because they think different than us, but evil. Therefore, we don't talk to each other. We elect public officials who aren't supposed to really work together. When there are problems, like there are in education, we don't even try to see if the other side has a solution to offer which may make sense. We simply tune them out. I'm out here trying to see how the world looks from your bubble. I don't expect to change your minds on much of anything. You won't change my mind on much of anything, either. However, I think that if we seek it out, there is common ground to be had. Even if not, at least we are trying to make America better than it is today, and we take power away from the people and institutions that seek to maintain their power by dividing us. Sometime, try stepping out of your bubble and see what the other side thinks. It's fascinating.

#3. Vouchers
You don't want vouchers in private schools. Here's why. If you take the money, you have to take the students that come with it. Then, you'll have to offer them all the protection and privileges they have in the public schools. That means that if a Muslim child or a homosexual child or a transgendered child wishes to attend a conservative Christian school, you have to say "yes." If they are bullied or harassed and you do not provide what is needed, you will probably be sued. Whether or not they are successful (and they probably would be), they have taken a lot of money you could be spending on the students that you want to be there.

Those who are economically disadvantaged would be worse off than they are now. Many private schools, faced with the costs of dealing with students in poverty, would raise their tuition rates above what vouchers provide. Even for those schools that would not do such a thing, there would be issues.

We are a school district of choice in our state. We get students coming in who are dissatisfied with their home district. It usually goes okay for kids in families who can afford to live close to us and have a middle class background to begin with. They can afford to live in our area or there is one parent who can stay at home and shuttle the kids where they need to go. It is harder for those who don't. This year, I had a student whose family brought him to school from 45 minutes away because they believed we could help their child succeed. The problem is, they share a single car as a two parent family. Both parents also work to pay rent and feed their family. This means their child arrives at school tired, gets home late, and they struggle to do their best to help their child succeed. However, they have decided to go somewhere else next year because the logistics are too much to handle.

If vouchers were the norm and there were no more neighborhood schools, this sort of thing would be happening everywhere. Further, there would be no reason for politicians to feel like they needed to fix the problems that do exist in our schools. They could shrug their shoulders and say, "if they don't like the school near them, they could go to the one across town." Meanwhile, nothing gets better for the kids who need our help.

As I have said before.  Do not bunch everyone's post into one big long posts.  Quote each poster and address that post and then move on to the next persons post.  No one like going back to see who said what.   

Just a heads up.  This is the way it works on CPF.   

Quote from: Proud teacher on June 13, 2017, 09:25:18 PM
Okay, I don't have time right now to respond specifically to everyone, but the basic comments fall under a few categories.

#1. You're a music teacher? That's not a real teacher! Also, you didn't tell us.

I am a real teacher. I have taken the same education classes as all the other teachers, including many of those in private and charter schools. My master's degree is in education. I have answered questions put to me regardless of what the tone of the question was. No one asked what I taught, what my school is like, what students I work with, although someone did ask about the other teachers I work with.

The music industry is a $15 billion industry in the US. I teach my students the basic skills necessary to participate in that sector of the economy. Also, if you want God in your schools, tradition upheld, and patriotism as part of the curriculum, the music teacher is your best bet.

My student's bread and butter daily work is folk music. I don't mean the stuff by Peter, Paul, and Mary. I mean the real old, traditional stuff that has been a part of American culture for generations. The stuff your great grandfathers sang around the fire. If teachers like me didn't teach it, it could get lost and replaced by Katie Perry. Yuck.

I teach every fourth grader "The Star Spangled Banner." Meaning that, for a grade, they have to sing it by themselves and get every single word right. If they don't, they don't pass the test. Then, they have to meet with me at recess, before school, and/or after school until they can do it right. I also teach them the history surrounding the song. It's a story all about our country in a time of war and the United States triumphing. After learning it, they critique different performers' versions. I don't tell them what to think, and they often get very critical of their favorite pop stars when it is not performed with what they consider to be the proper respect.

Reading, writing, and 'rhythmatic? Got it covered. Even though it's not my primary focus, it all happens.

Reading: We read song lyrics all the time in all grade levels. Doing that is one of the best way to help struggling readers get ahead. Not to mention the opportunities for literary analysis of the words.

Writing: I just wrapped up a concert where my 5th graders were pen palling with a choir of senior citizens. I taught them how to write a letter to another person. Not only did I correct grammar and spelling errors, I taught them how to ask questions to keep the conversation going and to value the wisdom and experiences with their elders.

Arithmetic: music is applied math. Counting rhythms teaches children how to count in base 2, 3, or 4. Understanding how those rhythms function in music requires me to cover fractions. We talk about the distance between pitches in a melody. Then, I make them put it into action by performing these pieces. This is not that different from a science project in the role math plays.

Also, choir is a place where students often raise their voices in song to God. In the public schools. I almost always perform some sacred music in my choir. It would be an omission of some of the best music ever written to leave it out. Don't sell music short. It can be the part of public education that best aligns with the values you feel are being marginalized.

#2. You live in a bubble.
We all live in a bubble. Different bubbles. It's getting worse, too. We have reached the point in society where the other side must be not only wrong because they think different than us, but evil. Therefore, we don't talk to each other. We elect public officials who aren't supposed to really work together. When there are problems, like there are in education, we don't even try to see if the other side has a solution to offer which may make sense. We simply tune them out. I'm out here trying to see how the world looks from your bubble. I don't expect to change your minds on much of anything. You won't change my mind on much of anything, either. However, I think that if we seek it out, there is common ground to be had. Even if not, at least we are trying to make America better than it is today, and we take power away from the people and institutions that seek to maintain their power by dividing us. Sometime, try stepping out of your bubble and see what the other side thinks. It's fascinating.

#3. Vouchers
You don't want vouchers in private schools. Here's why. If you take the money, you have to take the students that come with it. Then, you'll have to offer them all the protection and privileges they have in the public schools. That means that if a Muslim child or a homosexual child or a transgendered child wishes to attend a conservative Christian school, you have to say "yes." If they are bullied or harassed and you do not provide what is needed, you will probably be sued. Whether or not they are successful (and they probably would be), they have taken a lot of money you could be spending on the students that you want to be there.

Those who are economically disadvantaged would be worse off than they are now. Many private schools, faced with the costs of dealing with students in poverty, would raise their tuition rates above what vouchers provide. Even for those schools that would not do such a thing, there would be issues.

We are a school district of choice in our state. We get students coming in who are dissatisfied with their home district. It usually goes okay for kids in families who can afford to live close to us and have a middle class background to begin with. They can afford to live in our area or there is one parent who can stay at home and shuttle the kids where they need to go. It is harder for those who don't. This year, I had a student whose family brought him to school from 45 minutes away because they believed we could help their child succeed. The problem is, they share a single car as a two parent family. Both parents also work to pay rent and feed their family. This means their child arrives at school tired, gets home late, and they struggle to do their best to help their child succeed. However, they have decided to go somewhere else next year because the logistics are too much to handle.

If vouchers were the norm and there were no more neighborhood schools, this sort of thing would be happening everywhere. Further, there would be no reason for politicians to feel like they needed to fix the problems that do exist in our schools. They could shrug their shoulders and say, "if they don't like the school near them, they could go to the one across town." Meanwhile, nothing gets better for the kids who need our help.

#1 Music is a great subject - teaches so many skills that other topics don't. It's not usually taken seriously in many schools prior to high school, but is used well in many schools. Thank you for teaching it.

#2 The bubble comment was focused on your experience in your public school - not the general concept you responded with. The good experience in public school you describe is the exception - not the rule. For every one strong public school you identify, I can find ten bad ones. And much of it is driven by the godless approach reinforced by the foundation-less liberal philosophy. And cleaning up the mess won't happen with the government controlling it. Private sector entities can offer competitive products that will bring up the level of all the creeks.

#3 You're identifying vouches with strings attached. So don't take tax money to subsidize schools - let families decide which schools they want to support with their income. A school should be able to decide the curriculum that they offer and parents can send there kids if they value the product - free market offering. Then a Christian school can, for example, identify that homosexuality is wrong according to their belief. If a child who has been coerced to believe homosexuality is normal attends the school, then they need to tolerate the teaching. And a secular school can introduce kids that attend to their arguments for homosexuality - and a Christian who attends would need to tolerate that teaching. Seems natural and logical, doesn't it? So why do we need the government to establish public schools? Why do we need unions?

So I take it Proud teacher is not interested as he is not on page one now. 

Quote from: walkstall on June 16, 2017, 05:49:14 PM
So I take it Proud teacher is not interested as he is not on page one now. 

And here I hadn't had time to get him to address the UNION side of his spiel. Or the notion that being proud of being in a union was somehow in any way laudable. It is impossible for either Dems or GOP to prove or disprove this, but the "common wisdom" figure I keep seeing is that 40% of all union members (ALL unions) are in fact conservatives.

I'd like his take on why extortion does not apply to these teachers. I'd also like to know by what imagined right may any public employee go on strike, and why the governor of any state in which a teachers strike occurs should NOT call in the armed authority to break the strike apart.

More likely here is, he won't think to look to see if the item was moved.

Quote from: quiller on June 16, 2017, 05:59:45 PM
And here I hadn't had time to get him to address the UNION side of his spiel. Or the notion that being proud of being in a union was somehow in any way laudable. It is impossible for either Dems or GOP to prove or disprove this, but the "common wisdom" figure I keep seeing is that 40% of all union members (ALL unions) are in fact conservatives.

I'd like his take on why extortion does not apply to these teachers. I'd also like to know by what imagined right may any public employee go on strike, and why the governor of any state in which a teachers strike occurs should NOT call in the armed authority to break the strike apart.

More likely here is, he won't think to look to see if the item was moved.

He was told it would be move to Miscellaneous.  He also has set the system up to let him know when some one has posted in it.   I am thinking it's by e-mail. 

Quote from: walkstall on June 16, 2017, 06:05:31 PM
He was told it would be move to Miscellaneous.  He also has set the system up to let him know when some one has posted in it.   I am thinking it's by e-mail.

See my post above.....   

Quote from: quiller on June 16, 2017, 06:10:53 PM
See my post above.....   

Your mother would be proud.