Quote from: alienhand on April 16, 2019, 10:19:57 PM
Sir, you must've lived in the town of Pleasantville then where everything is perfect and nothing ever goes wrong, authorities who give perfect advice, have the perfect circumstances, understand everything perfectly, their way of doing things is perfect and is completely selfless.    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasantville_(film)

The millennials (or a number of them) are at where they're at including but not limited having student loan debt b/c of authority of those around them.  It was b/c they listened to their parents, educators and those who were in charge of them they're at where they're at.  Were they taught the way they were supposed to go by their parents, educators and others who were in charge of them as the Bible admonishes them to do? 

If these "authorities" don't uphold their part and fill their charges with a bunch of lies and nonsense then how can one expect these charges to have the respect expected?  Or these same authorities or at least some of them expect their charges to "figure it out themselves through life experiences."  The millennials are where they're at b/c of those who had authority over them helped to lay down and the foundations of the world we live in today.   

Respect has to come from trust.  The trust in knowing that the advice being given is based in truth and not based in ignorance or duplicity.   Quite honestly, I don't trust most authority figures.  Authority figures are human and vulnerable to their own biases, prejudices, frailties,  and their own imperfections.  Even the Bible said to be aware of false prophets.  To me, a trustworthy authority figure is open minded to being questioned and open to being wrong on something.  And, they're willing to do what is right and thirst for righteousness and to thirst for why this something is righteousness.  They're willing to investigate matters at hand and accept opposing evidence to their views and ways of doing things. 

And, that's the thing.  The next generation after the millennial need to hold those in authority over them accountable especially when it comes to their future.  The future in theirs.  Their lives are their own.  They're personally responsible for themselves right and how their future will turn out.   Their future is determined by the choices they make now and knowing what the truth is, correct?  How can they do this if they're expected to submit themselves to authorities and these same authorities proclaim themselves as wise when these authorities are not as wise as they claim and give them a bunch of bullshit advice?

It doesn't mean that one should go out of his way to disrespect them, break laws or be rebellious for the sake of being rebellious.  It doesn't mean to wear a mohawk cause everyone else wears a suit and tie.  It means to hearken on to wise council and disregard the council that is false and not to let someone else's hypocrisy determine the choices one makes. 

And, I think one of my teachers in my past was a pedophile.  I didn't know the term at the time but I knew something was wrong.  He liked this girl a lot way more then seemed appropriate.  I didn't respect him then and I sure as shit don't respect him now. 

I respectfully somewhat disagree.  If respect means common courtesy I think we can be courteous and have common courtesy but if it means do what they want with no question especially if it affect's one's future then I'm very skeptical on this. 

Do you all see why I don't trust authority and hold them in the same regard as you all do?  I just can't.

Pleasantville does not exist, has not existed, will not exist in the future. If this is what you are looking for you might as well stop. We stopped looking a long time ago, along with looking for santa, easter bunny, tooth fairy, ect. If you are still looking may I ask why? If you are thinking we have too many hardships facing us in today's world its a damn good thing you were born in today's world, hate to tell you this, but we as a society have it pretty damn easy compared to what the world has been. What the past generations had was the guts and stamina to overcome it and make it better for the next generations. It's pretty hard to accomplish anything worthwhile while you're busy blaming others for not being up to your standards.  this sentence stands out  Do you all see why I don't trust authority and hold them in the same regard as you all do? Try saying it this way : Do you all see why I don't trust myself and hold me in the same regard as you all do? Most of us, make that all of us, deal with hardships, disappointments, deaths, happenings that are beyond our control, ect. If you are busy concentrating on those you will not see all of the good things that happen to us also.

Quote from: s3779m on April 17, 2019, 04:35:27 AM
Pleasantville does not exist, has not existed, will not exist in the future. If this is what you are looking for you might as well stop. We stopped looking a long time ago, along with looking for santa, easter bunny, tooth fairy, ect. If you are still looking may I ask why? If you are thinking we have too many hardships facing us in today's world its a damn good thing you were born in today's world, hate to tell you this, but we as a society have it pretty damn easy compared to what the world has been. What the past generations had was the guts and stamina to overcome it and make it better for the next generations. It's pretty hard to accomplish anything worthwhile while you're busy blaming others for not being up to your standards.  this sentence stands out  Do you all see why I don't trust authority and hold them in the same regard as you all do? Try saying it this way : Do you all see why I don't trust myself and hold me in the same regard as you all do? Most of us, make that all of us, deal with hardships, disappointments, deaths, happenings that are beyond our control, ect. If you are busy concentrating on those you will not see all of the good things that happen to us also.

You missed the entire point.  The point I was making is if future want a better chance at a future (no guarantees) then they need to question what they're told is true about reality even if it is from a respected authority.  Be courteous to authority figures but be skeptical on what they say.  If the millenials questioned things while they were in school and knew how and what to ask I believe you would more likely see better success from them.   The next gen needs to be courteous, question authority, have a skeptical mind, don't follow your passion or your dreams but follow reality and economics. Use your brain and not your heart!  Accept that things will happen and things will go wrong no matter how much you think things through.  And, learn about the industry before trying to jump into it whether it is being a scientist or being a plumber.  Learn, ask questions, don't just accept what anyone says at face value not your parents, ministers, coaches, experts, etc. 

And, don't let any stop you from doing what you think you can do and don't let others ca-jole you and manipulate you into doing things you can't do.  Only you know you and you understand you.  Yes, listen to the experts and the wise but be skeptical of their advice and teachings may or may not be right for you.

That's the point!

Quote from: alienhand on April 16, 2019, 10:19:57 PM
Sir, you must've lived in the town of Pleasantville then where everything is perfect and nothing ever goes wrong, authorities who give perfect advice, have the perfect circumstances, understand everything perfectly, their way of doing things is perfect and is completely selfless.    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasantville_(film)

The millennials (or a number of them) are at where they're at including but not limited having student loan debt b/c of authority of those around them.  It was b/c they listened to their parents, educators and those who were in charge of them they're at where they're at.  Were they taught the way they were supposed to go by their parents, educators and others who were in charge of them as the Bible admonishes them to do? 

If these "authorities" don't uphold their part and fill their charges with a bunch of lies and nonsense then how can one expect these charges to have the respect expected?  Or these same authorities or at least some of them expect their charges to "figure it out themselves through life experiences."  The millennials are where they're at b/c of those who had authority over them helped to lay down and the foundations of the world we live in today.   

Respect has to come from trust.  The trust in knowing that the advice being given is based in truth and not based in ignorance or duplicity.   Quite honestly, I don't trust most authority figures.  Authority figures are human and vulnerable to their own biases, prejudices, frailties,  and their own imperfections.  Even the Bible said to be aware of false prophets.  To me, a trustworthy authority figure is open minded to being questioned and open to being wrong on something.  And, they're willing to do what is right and thirst for righteousness and to thirst for why this something is righteousness.  They're willing to investigate matters at hand and accept opposing evidence to their views and ways of doing things. 

And, that's the thing.  The next generation after the millennial need to hold those in authority over them accountable especially when it comes to their future.  The future in theirs.  Their lives are their own.  They're personally responsible for themselves right and how their future will turn out.   Their future is determined by the choices they make now and knowing what the truth is, correct?  How can they do this if they're expected to submit themselves to authorities and these same authorities proclaim themselves as wise when these authorities are not as wise as they claim and give them a bunch of bullshit advice?

It doesn't mean that one should go out of his way to disrespect them, break laws or be rebellious for the sake of being rebellious.  It doesn't mean to wear a mohawk cause everyone else wears a suit and tie.  It means to hearken on to wise council and disregard the council that is false and not to let someone else's hypocrisy determine the choices one makes. 

And, I think one of my teachers in my past was a pedophile.  I didn't know the term at the time but I knew something was wrong.  He liked this girl a lot way more then seemed appropriate.  I didn't respect him then and I sure as shit don't respect him now. 

I respectfully somewhat disagree.  If respect means common courtesy I think we can be courteous and have common courtesy but if it means do what they want with no question especially if it affect's one's future then I'm very skeptical on this. 

Do you all see why I don't trust authority and hold them in the same regard as you all do?  I just can't.

I'd like to expand on something you said here.
This was another aspect of the Marxists plan of taking over America. Take over the schools, higher education, start pushing the idea that without a degree, you'll always be stuck in menial labor.
But not everyone wanted, or had the skills to be a scientist or doctor, so they created the Liberal Arts degree, then managed to force Govt into requiring some form of higher learning degree, of course now that they've done this, they needed to fund these colleges because they couldn't deal with the new influx of people entering college. See where this is going?

May parents weren't aware of the Marxist infiltration taking place, all they saw was opportunity for their kids, one they never had, so they pushed them into local colleges in hopes of attending one of the elite colleges around the nation, at the time, a near guaranteed success certificate for life.

That all began to be exposed in the 70s, when "Affirmative Action" hit the nation like a bat upside the head in a dark alley and mugged America. Though that's another story for another time.
Fast forward to today, where a bunch of leftist celebrities have been indicted in a pay to play scheme for their kids to enter these institutions as it becomes clear to the rest of the world, that these universities are nothing more than a scam and why so many kids are saddled with debt they'll never be able to pull off.
In steps Obozo and his bailout for these scam colleges in promising to cover these debts with taxpayer dollars.

Anywhere you find corruption in this country, you find leftists, because Conservatives believe in a fair playing field.
And before you claim so and so did it and they were Republicans? They were not Conservatives.

Quote from: Solar on April 17, 2019, 10:19:14 AM
I'd like to expand on something you said here.
This was another aspect of the Marxists plan of taking over America. Take over the schools, higher education, start pushing the idea that without a degree, you'll always be stuck in menial labor.
But not everyone wanted, or had the skills to be a scientist or doctor, so they created the Liberal Arts degree, then managed to force Govt into requiring some form of higher learning degree, of course now that they've done this, they needed to fund these colleges because they couldn't deal with the new influx of people entering college. See where this is going?

Solar, you know what you're excellent at.  You're good at seeing the bigger picture of things.  Me, I can't do that to save my life.  I end up in the weeds like you said.  When I think through what you said, a lot of my teachers, educators, administrators and others in my life were and are leftists.  So, there does seem to be a strong correlation here.   

Another thing, is menial labor such a bad thing?  Why is it wrong to do menial labor?  Why look down upon it?    I've looked through my family's history My great-grandfather, a jewish immigrant came here and he made a living by being a street sweeper.  He made a living for himself and his family.  He didn't need a college degree.  Yet, he still did good for himself and his family. 

Quote from: Solar on April 17, 2019, 10:19:14 AM
May parents weren't aware of the Marxist infiltration taking place, all they saw was opportunity for their kids, one they never had, so they pushed them into local colleges in hopes of attending one of the elite colleges around the nation, at the time, a near guaranteed success certificate for life.

And, none of the parents really thought this through especially in economic terms.  Wouldn't they think that this whole idea of everyone going to college thing would artificially over-inflate the supply of labor?  You have more potential candidates then there are jobs to go around.  You would think that they would have thought this through and would have concluded that this makes no sense. 

Quote from: Solar on April 17, 2019, 10:19:14 AM

That all began to be exposed in the 70s, when "Affirmative Action" hit the nation like a bat upside the head in a dark alley and mugged America. Though that's another story for another time.

Agreed!  Let's leave it for another time.

Quote from: Solar on April 17, 2019, 10:19:14 AM

Fast forward to today, where a bunch of leftist celebrities have been indicted in a pay to play scheme for their kids to enter these institutions as it becomes clear to the rest of the world, that these universities are nothing more than a scam and why so many kids are saddled with debt they'll never be able to pull off.

Ya, and it is entirely fucked up.  It's b/c a lot of these celebs believe in order for their child to succeed in life they have to go to college.  And, b/c of the influx of ppl going college becomes a lot more competitive. Over abundance of supply of labor.  Supply becomes greater then demand. 

So, here's my question. If these kids have been scammed and I think they have then morally should they be forced to pay off this debt or shouldn't the scammers be forced to pay off this debt? 

Quote from: Solar on April 17, 2019, 10:19:14 AM
In steps Obozo and his bailout for these scam colleges in promising to cover these debts with taxpayer dollars.

This is why I think that the maxim "life is not fair" and we should accept this maxim as truth is bullshit.  To me, it's bullshit to punish those who had nothing to do with the scam.  And, when you charge this to taxpayers that's what one is doing.  And, in this case shouldn't life be more fair and one should demand life to be more fairer in this case? 

Quote from: Solar on April 17, 2019, 10:19:14 AM
Anywhere you find corruption in this country, you find leftists, because Conservatives believe in a fair playing field.
And before you claim so and so did it and they were Republicans? They were not Conservatives.

I believe in a fair playing field as well. 

Another thing.  Personally, I think there is an over-emphasis on academics especially that we're all forced to learn through government law and edict.  Why am I learning things like the quadratic formula which is so goddamned long?  And, once I learn it for the test I end up forgetting it anywhere.  I've never used it in my entire life so far.

Wouldn't it make more sense for me to have learned life skills like first aid, work ethic, how to interview properly, etc, etc instead of being forced by the gov't to go to school to learn useless shit?  Why aren't parents allowed to determine the curriculum for their own children as appropriate?  Why is the department of education deemed more fit to determine what one's child will learn then the parents and how this child will learn it?   Why can't parents be allowed to shop around to determine the best fit for their children?  And, as a person gets older that person determines his own best fit? 

Solar, you, walkstall, supersalesmgr, other people on here come from more rural areas.  How would someone who is removed from you and lives in a city be the better fit at determining what your children should learn and how they should learn it? 

I know what I want to do.  I want to fight back against the liars and deceivers who set today's youth down a bad path and get the next gen on a better one.

Quote from: alienhand on April 17, 2019, 09:15:53 PM
Solar, you know what you're excellent at.  You're good at seeing the bigger picture of things.  Me, I can't do that to save my life.  I end up in the weeds like you said.  When I think through what you said, a lot of my teachers, educators, administrators and others in my life were and are leftists.  So, there does seem to be a strong correlation here.   

Another thing, is menial labor such a bad thing?  Why is it wrong to do menial labor?  Why look down upon it?    I've looked through my family's history My great-grandfather, a jewish immigrant came here and he made a living by being a street sweeper.  He made a living for himself and his family.  He didn't need a college degree.  Yet, he still did good for himself and his family. 

And, none of the parents really thought this through especially in economic terms.  Wouldn't they think that this whole idea of everyone going to college thing would artificially over-inflate the supply of labor?  You have more potential candidates then there are jobs to go around.  You would think that they would have thought this through and would have concluded that this makes no sense. 

Agreed!  Let's leave it for another time.

Ya, and it is entirely fucked up.  It's b/c a lot of these celebs believe in order for their child to succeed in life they have to go to college.  And, b/c of the influx of ppl going college becomes a lot more competitive. Over abundance of supply of labor.  Supply becomes greater then demand. 

So, here's my question. If these kids have been scammed and I think they have then morally should they be forced to pay off this debt or shouldn't the scammers be forced to pay off this debt? 

This is why I think that the maxim "life is not fair" and we should accept this maxim as truth is bullshit.  To me, it's bullshit to punish those who had nothing to do with the scam.  And, when you charge this to taxpayers that's what one is doing.  And, in this case shouldn't life be more fair and one should demand life to be more fairer in this case? 

I believe in a fair playing field as well. 

Another thing.  Personally, I think there is an over-emphasis on academics especially that we're all forced to learn through government law and edict.  Why am I learning things like the quadratic formula which is so goddamned long?  And, once I learn it for the test I end up forgetting it anywhere.  I've never used it in my entire life so far.

Wouldn't it make more sense for me to have learned life skills like first aid, work ethic, how to interview properly, etc, etc instead of being forced by the gov't to go to school to learn useless shit?  Why aren't parents allowed to determine the curriculum for their own children as appropriate?  Why is the department of education deemed more fit to determine what one's child will learn then the parents and how this child will learn it?   Why can't parents be allowed to shop around to determine the best fit for their children?  And, as a person gets older that person determines his own best fit? 

Solar, you, walkstall, supersalesmgr, other people on here come from more rural areas.  How would someone who is removed from you and lives in a city be the better fit at determining what your children should learn and how they should learn it? 

I know what I want to do.  I want to fight back against the liars and deceivers who set today's youth down a bad path and get the next gen on a better one.

You're getting it. Here's the thing, if you think like a lib, you'll be perpetually confused, but if you use critical thought based in values and morals, you'll find the answers come much easier.
Seriously, don't simply accept the lies because that appears to be how things work, stand your ground if you know something is wrong.
Lifes answers will come easier if you base your life on values tried and tested over millennium.
The left hates us for this, which is why they're fighting so damned hard to destroy everything that works.

Quote from: Solar on April 17, 2019, 09:37:33 PM
You're getting it. Here's the thing, if you think like a lib, you'll be perpetually confused, but if you use critical thought based in values and morals, you'll find the answers come much easier.

I can do that. 

Quote from: Solar on April 17, 2019, 10:19:14 AM

Seriously, don't simply accept the lies because that appears to be how things work, stand your ground if you know something is wrong.

I defintely agree with ya!

Quote from: Solar on April 17, 2019, 10:19:14 AM
Lifes answers will come easier if you base your life on values tried and tested over millennium.
The left hates us for this, which is why they're fighting so damned hard to destroy everything that works.

I like this.  Base my life that is based upon values tried and tested over millennium.  Look at what actually works and what made societies flourish and look at what doesn't work and made societies decline.

Societies are based in relationships of individuals interacting with each other for differing reasons.  Relationships are the glue that hold society together.

To have successful relationships they must be based in trust, love and they must be free of duplicity.   

No relationship can be forced.  You can't force others to be together who don't wish to be together. 

Quote from: alienhand on April 17, 2019, 10:51:39 PM
I can do that. 

I defintely agree with ya!

I like this.  Base my life that is based upon values tried and tested over millennium.  Look at what actually works and what made societies flourish and look at what doesn't work and made societies decline.

Societies are based in relationships of individuals interacting with each other for differing reasons.  Relationships are the glue that hold society together.

To have successful relationships they must be based in trust, love and they must be free of duplicity.   

No relationship can be forced.  You can't force others to be together who don't wish to be together.

Our Founders understood this and why they based it on Laws of Nature and Nature's God - True Foundation of Law.
Look it up, the left despises it, the right lives by it, as did millennium of people since the beginning of man.

Laws of Nature and Nature's God - True Foundation of Law

Quote from: Solar on April 18, 2019, 07:52:57 AM
Our Founders understood this and why they based it on Laws of Nature and Nature's God - True Foundation of Law.
Look it up, the left despises it, the right lives by it, as did millennium of people since the beginning of man.

Laws of Nature and Nature's God - True Foundation of Law

I think I understand.  Every species and every individual of that species has a nature or a default operating system.  When we understand and go by that we can thrive.  When we don't we fail.

Quote from: alienhand on April 18, 2019, 10:23:37 AM
I think I understand.  Every species and every individual of that species has a nature or a default operating system.  When we understand and go by that we can thrive.  When we don't we fail.

Pretty much. You can't break the laws of Nature without severe consequence.

Quote from: alienhand on April 17, 2019, 08:30:00 AM
You missed the entire point.  The point I was making is if future want a better chance at a future (no guarantees) then they need to question what they're told is true about reality even if it is from a respected authority.  Be courteous to authority figures but be skeptical on what they say.  If the millenials questioned things while they were in school and knew how and what to ask I believe you would more likely see better success from them.   The next gen needs to be courteous, question authority, have a skeptical mind, don't follow your passion or your dreams but follow reality and economics. Use your brain and not your heart!  Accept that things will happen and things will go wrong no matter how much you think things through.  And, learn about the industry before trying to jump into it whether it is being a scientist or being a plumber.  Learn, ask questions, don't just accept what anyone says at face value not your parents, ministers, coaches, experts, etc. 

And, don't let any stop you from doing what you think you can do and don't let others ca-jole you and manipulate you into doing things you can't do.  Only you know you and you understand you.  Yes, listen to the experts and the wise but be skeptical of their advice and teachings may or may not be right for you.

That's the point!

This is what my answer referred to    "Sir, you must've lived in the town of Pleasantville then where everything is perfect and nothing ever goes wrong, authorities who give perfect advice, have the perfect circumstances, understand everything perfectly, their way of doing things is perfect and is completely selfless.    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasantville_(film). Your posts are different, I usually spend more time trying to understand them to see what you are saying, just skimmed over this one and missed your point.

Quote from: s3779m on April 19, 2019, 05:17:22 AM
This is what my answer referred to    "Sir, you must've lived in the town of Pleasantville then where everything is perfect and nothing ever goes wrong, authorities who give perfect advice, have the perfect circumstances, understand everything perfectly, their way of doing things is perfect and is completely selfless.    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasantville_(film). Your posts are different, I usually spend more time trying to understand them to see what you are saying, just skimmed over this one and missed your point.

My posts are different?  What do you mean? 

The reason I ask is I would like to make my posts more readable to you.  What would help me to accomplish this is to tell me what parts you don't understand. 

Quote from: alienhand on April 19, 2019, 09:04:25 AM
My posts are different?  What do you mean? 

The reason I ask is I would like to make my posts more readable to you.  What would help me to accomplish this is to tell me what parts you don't understand.

Much more into detail. I'm not saying that good or bad, I just need to read them slower.