Two questions:
1. Can someone explain what self-pity is? What does it mean in your own words? I assume it is an emotion of some kind.
2. What is the logical purpose of self-pity? If one is not allowed to feel this emotion whatsoever then why does it even exist? What is self-pity's purpose exactly? I simply want everyone's take and opinion on it.
Sounds like you know what it is because you live it and don't want to. Self loathing is another, or delusional dreamers with grandiose ideas that are unachievable on any level, emotions out of whack.
IMO, God gave us the gift of life, included in this gift was the hope that one would experience love, but to find love one must experience hate to actually appreciate love.
Both are the extremes of the emotional spectrum, with a shitload of gray in between, such as self pity, avarice, jealousy, greed etc. all to be tempered in pursuit of love, the ultimate emotion.
God knew that this would be quite the task for many, so he gave us the Dog, (spelled backwards, "God"), accident? Nope, the lowly dog gives man unquestionable love and adoration without question.
Tell you what, it's pretty hard to be in a shitty mood when you have something that sees only the best in you and nothing else. A tail wag, a lick to greet you after waiting all day for you to return home.
One simply doesn't have time for apathy when you have a dog depending on you for your love and affection.
Get the fuck out of the city, you have imprisoned yourself with fear.
I think it's about time the kid had a army drill instructor for about 2 years. A good therapist would not help him as he would play a therapist like a fiddle, like he does the government.
Quote from: walkstall on February 25, 2019, 06:55:16 AM
I think it's about time the kid had a army drill instructor for about 2 years. A good therapist would not help him as he would play a therapist like a fiddle, like he does the government.
Oddly enough, military would be perfect for him, total structure, rules not to be broken.
However, I doubt they would take him, but something like a volunteer group that travels around the world helping the poor in other countries might be a great experience.
Quote from: Solar on February 25, 2019, 06:00:02 AM
Sounds like you know what it is because you live it and don't want to. Self loathing is another, or delusional dreamers with grandiose ideas that are unachievable on any level, emotions out of whack.
IMO, God gave us the gift of life, included in this gift was the hope that one would experience love, but to find love one must experience hate to actually appreciate love.
Both are the extremes of the emotional spectrum, with a shitload of gray in between, such as self pity, avarice, jealousy, greed etc. all to be tempered in pursuit of love, the ultimate emotion.
God knew that this would be quite the task for many, so he gave us the Dog, (spelled backwards, "God"), accident? Nope, the lowly dog gives man unquestionable love and adoration without question.
Tell you what, it's pretty hard to be in a shitty mood when you have something that sees only the best in you and nothing else. A tail wag, a lick to greet you after waiting all day for you to return home.
One simply doesn't have time for apathy when you have a dog depending on you for your love and affection.
Get the fuck out of the city, you have imprisoned yourself with fear.
With the dog, I actually know what you are talking about. When I was a child my dog was Max the dog. Whenever I was down he knew how to brighten my day. And, not just love and affection but feeding as well and bathing.
As with emotions I wish I was a Vulcan.
Quote from: walkstall on February 25, 2019, 06:55:16 AM
I think it's about time the kid had a army drill instructor for about 2 years. A good therapist would not help him as he would play a therapist like a fiddle, like he does the government.
Here is how it would go down with me and the army drill instructor.
Drill Seargant: Yells "ABOUT FACE"
Me: I turn left to face the wall on the left b/c in my mind that's what I heard him say.
DS: I SEE WE HAVE US A FUCKING COMEDIAN IN HERE! A CANDY ASS SHIT STAIN! DROP AND GIVE ME 20!
Quote from: alienhand on April 07, 2019, 02:24:25 AM
Here is how it would go down with me and the army drill instructor.
Drill Seargant: Yells "ABOUT FACE"
Me: I turn left to face the wall on the left b/c in my mind that's what I heard him say.
DS: I SEE WE HAVE US A FUCKING COMEDIAN IN HERE! A CANDY ASS SHIT STAIN! DROP AND GIVE ME 20!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
20? How about 200! The Drill Intructors always say, "If your not gonna be smart, and least you'll be strong"
Quote from: walkstall on February 25, 2019, 06:55:16 AM
I think it's about time the kid had a army drill instructor for about 2 years. A good therapist would not help him as he would play a therapist like a fiddle, like he does the government.
Here is how it would go down with me and the army drill instructor.
Drill Seargant: Yells "ABOUT FACE"
Me: I turn left to face the wall on the left b/c in my mind that's what I heard him say.
DS: I SEE WE HAVE US A CANDY ASSED COMEDIAN HERE! TRYING TO BE CUTE! DROP AND GIVE ME 50.
Me: *confused as to what he did wrong* ummmm huh?
DS: DROP AND GIVE ME 100!
Me: 100 what?
DS: 100 what sir?
Me: 100 what sir?
DS: PUSH-UPS YOU DUMB ASS PIECE OF SHIT!
Me: Can you repeat the first part sir since I only heard the dumb ass piece of shit part sir?
DS: He screams louder in my ear and yells PUSH-UPS!
Me: Thinks to myself "All I hear is ups this time and also don't understand why he is upset and singled me out. What exactly did I do wrong? Now, I'm stressed trying to figure out what he wants and maybe the man means push-ups. I go ahead and take the guess. I could be wrong and it could be sit ups. It can't be pull ups b/c there is no bar to pull up from." I do the push-ups. They end up being what he expects and after I do them he yells at me to "fall in." I fall in.
DS: He yells "TURN RIGHT, TURN LEFT, FACE THE WALL, "
ME: Thinking " Everyone else faces the wall to the left that I faced earlier and I still don't know what I did wrong from b4. I face wall from another building that is a longer distance from the field we're in.
DS: He yells "WHAT THE LIVING FUCK! DIDN'T I TELL YOU TO FACE THE GODDAMNED WALL!
ME: Becoming more stressed and thinking what the fuck did I do wrong this time? I say to the DS "sir, I am facing the wall."
DS: He yells "I see you didn't learn your lesson from the first time of being funny."
ME: I say "I wasn't trying to be funny sir. I'm facing the wall like you told me to do. I can't help that your communication style is extremely vague and garbled especially when you're yelling.
One of the female recruits laughs.
DS: Yells "Is something funny cadet?"
Female recruit yells "Sir, no sir. Sorry Sir! May I have permission to speak freely."
DS: "Permission granted!"
Female recruit says "I suspect this guy has a form of Higher Functioning Autism sir. He's not trying to be funny or to be a clown. He may not be understanding your orders correctly especially when you're yelling at him."
DS: says "And, how the fuck can you know this."
FR: "B/c I had a younger sister who was killedr who had his condition and would've given similar responses this man gave. And, may I give you my opinion from being the older sister of someone like this man."
DS: says "permission granted."
FR says "In my opinion, this man does not belong on this unit or in the military at all. He needs to be given a Honorable Medical discharge."
I was told to report to the mental health part of the medical unit. The medical staff looked over my paperwork, gave me more thorough medical tests then the average recruit, I was deemed medically unfit for service and was given a medical discharge.
DS: Send him to clean all the Army Latrines for the next 2 years. He will learn how to do one job right before he gets out.
Quote from: alienhand on April 07, 2019, 03:48:57 AM
Here is how it would go down with me and the army drill instructor.
ME: Becoming more stressed and thinking what the fuck did I do wrong this time? I say to the DS "sir, I am facing the wall."
The thing about the Military and what you're not getting, is it matters not that you understood why you're being yelled at, that doesn't matter, what they do is break you down so that you obey an order unquestionably.
That's what Boot camp is all about, it's the DI's job to get you to do as you're told, your individualism is irrelevant, everyone is the same in the end, you all experience the same demeaning treatment, so in the end, you all share a common experience and a common bond.
Case in point. it was the 6th week of basic training, my platoon was dropped off miles from Fort Ord, told to find our way back, simple enough, right? Nope, no compass, taken out in a cattle car without windows in a driving rain.
We used the knowledge we were taught and headed out, hours later we stumbled on the parade grounds, which were actually a huge landing strip about a half mile wide and a mile long used for troop transport.
Out in the middle of the grounds, we all spot a poor caterpillar near drowning, everyone shared the same idea, we needed to save this bug.
Why? Because we had all been stripped of our individuality and freedoms. As a kid, not a one of us would have given a second thought to its plight, but we all suffered the same experience.
we took the bug to a lone latrine in the middle of nowhere and placed him inside where it was dry.
Something I'll never forget...
Quote from: Solar on April 07, 2019, 06:44:56 AM
The thing about the Military and what you're not getting, is it matters not that you understood why you're being yelled at, that doesn't matter, what they do is break you down so that you obey an order unquestionably.
That's what Boot camp is all about, it's the DI's job to get you to do as you're told, your individualism is irrelevant, everyone is the same in the end, you all experience the same demeaning treatment, so in the end, you all share a common experience and a common bond.
Case in point. it was the 6th week of basic training, my platoon was dropped off miles from Fort Ord, told to find our way back, simple enough, right? Nope, no compass, taken out in a cattle car without windows in a driving rain.
We used the knowledge we were taught and headed out, hours later we stumbled on the parade grounds, which were actually a huge landing strip about a half mile wide and a mile long used for troop transport.
Out in the middle of the grounds, we all spot a poor caterpillar near drowning, everyone shared the same idea, we needed to save this bug.
Why? Because we had all been stripped of our individuality and freedoms. As a kid, not a one of us would have given a second thought to its plight, but we all suffered the same experience.
we took the bug to a lone latrine in the middle of nowhere and placed him inside where it was dry.
Something I'll never forget...
I see.
Quote from: alienhand on April 08, 2019, 03:05:59 PM
I see.
Yeah, the military demands conformity, don't ask questions, just follow orders, if you don't understand them precisely, you ask the squad leader.
There is a chain of command for a reason, so the lowly private doesn't waste the time of his commanders.
If you still don't understand the orders, they simply give you a new assigned task, like latrine duty, grounds keeping, painting everything green that doesn't move.
Anyway, that's how it was 40+ years ago. I highly doubt it has changed all that much.
Quote from: Solar on April 08, 2019, 03:41:44 PM
Yeah, the military demands conformity, don't ask questions, just follow orders, if you don't understand them precisely, you ask the squad leader.
There is a chain of command for a reason, so the lowly private doesn't waste the time of his commanders.
If you still don't understand the orders, they simply give you a new assigned task, like latrine duty, grounds keeping, painting everything green that doesn't move.
Anyway, that's how it was 40+ years ago. I highly doubt it has changed all that much.
I would bust my ass to do all three of those things. And, if it was my choice amongst the three I would choose latrine duty. I would do it well. Or, do they still peel potatoes?
Quote from: alienhand on April 08, 2019, 09:29:23 PM
I would bust my ass to do all three of those things. And, if it was my choice amongst the three I would choose latrine duty. I would do it well. Or, do they still peel potatoes?
Did when I was in, but I kinda doubt it now, most of the food comes nearly ready to serve from what I understand..
Quote from: Solar on April 08, 2019, 03:41:44 PM
Yeah, the military demands conformity, don't ask questions, just follow orders, if you don't understand them precisely, you ask the squad leader.
There is a chain of command for a reason, so the lowly private doesn't waste the time of his commanders.
If you still don't understand the orders, they simply give you a new assigned task, like latrine duty, grounds keeping, painting everything green that doesn't move.
Anyway, that's how it was 40+ years ago. I highly doubt it has changed all that much.
Srry to be the bearer of bad news but it has. I was in in the late 2000s and I had a squad leader who had been in since the first gulf war and he wld tell me about how much it had changed since then.
For instance as I was getting out I was hearing that in basic they now get at least one Stress Card that they can use to stop the drill sergeants if the kid was too stressed out. I can only imagine that under obozo it just got worse.
Quote from: Solar on April 08, 2019, 03:41:44 PM
Yeah, the military demands conformity, don't ask questions, just follow orders, if you don't understand them precisely, you ask the squad leader.
There is a chain of command for a reason, so the lowly private doesn't waste the time of his commanders.
If you still don't understand the orders, they simply give you a new assigned task, like latrine duty, grounds keeping, painting everything green that doesn't move.
Anyway, that's how it was 40+ years ago. I highly doubt it has changed all that much.
Back when most of us were growing up the military was not the only place you were taught those basics. It came from parents, teachers and coaches as well.
Quote from: T Hunt on April 09, 2019, 04:28:20 AM
Srry to be the bearer of bad news but it has. I was in in the late 2000s and I had a squad leader who had been in since the first gulf war and he wld tell me about how much it had changed since then.
For instance as I was getting out I was hearing that in basic they now get at least one Stress Card that they can use to stop the drill sergeants if the kid was too stressed out. I can only imagine that under obozo it just got worse.
https://www.stripes.com/blogs-archive/the-rumor-doctor/the-rumor-doctor-1.104348/did-the-army-ever-issue-stress-cards-to-recruits-1.151803
Quote from: supsalemgr on April 09, 2019, 04:40:08 AM
Back when most of us were growing up the military was not the only place you were taught those basics. It came from parents, teachers and coaches as well.
So True. In fact the military counted on basic conformity as a starting point, be it love of country, or basic respect for one another, you know, common traits of man. It must really be a bitch breaking them down from "hood" or "The Block" think, like "You Dissed me Man", hard looks, wrong looks.
I've no doubt they had to fight the gang colors issue as well, because in the military, you're one gang.
I never considered the headache of destroyed families, no father, Hell, no real mother but a gang. I bet the psyche exam weeds out 90% of recruits these days. Makes for pretty slim pickings.
Quote from: Solar on April 09, 2019, 06:28:28 AM
https://www.stripes.com/blogs-archive/the-rumor-doctor/the-rumor-doctor-1.104348/did-the-army-ever-issue-stress-cards-to-recruits-1.151803
You've got to be shitting me! Everyone talked about these like they were a real new thing coming in. Just a sec while I check this...
Holy shit! It is fake for the most part. No official stress cards. I did find one example of someone being given something like a stress card but it was just an individual case not a policy.
https://www.opslens.com/2016/11/politically-correct-military-stress-cards-correlation-safe-spaces/
Wow. It is amazing how an entire group can fall for the same rumor.
That's said I think my initial point still stands, that's basic was getting easier as Obama was coming in. Even my own drill sergeants complained about not being able to say certain things to us. Of course they would smile and say them anyways when the CO wasn't around.
For instance I know one ritual was dying out because others I talked to didnt go thru it. At the end of basic when we got our infant pins we all lined up and put the pins on WITHOUT BACKINGS. Then the drills wld come along and give us each a nice long loving punch right on the pin, driving it into our flesh. This meant alot to me , but it certainly isnt sanctioned and I've heard from some who never did that.
Quote from: T Hunt on April 09, 2019, 07:29:24 AM
You've got to be shitting me! Everyone talked about these like they were a real new thing coming in. Just a sec while I check this...
Holy shit! It is fake for the most part. No official stress cards. I did find one example of someone being given something like a stress card but it was just an individual case not a policy.
https://www.opslens.com/2016/11/politically-correct-military-stress-cards-correlation-safe-spaces/
Wow. It is amazing how an entire group can fall for the same rumor.
That's said I think my initial point still stands, that's basic was getting easier as Obama was coming in. Even my own drill sergeants complained about not being able to say certain things to us. Of course they would smile and say them anyways when the CO wasn't around.
For instance I know one ritual was dying out because others I talked to didnt go thru it. At the end of basic when we got our infant pins we all lined up and put the pins on WITHOUT BACKINGS. Then the drills wld come along and give us each a nice long loving punch right on the pin, driving it into our flesh. This meant alot to me , but it certainly isnt sanctioned and I've heard from some who never did that.
And that's the reason it seemed so credible, because of the damage the left has always done to our military.
I went in under Nixon, then Carter entered the scene, within 3 months morale had plummeted. Deadlined vehicles, replacement parts near impossible to get, equipment failure and most was because of his Middle East debacle over fuel.
We were rationed. no longer allowed to diesel down vehicles, kind of like spraying the entire tank or Jeep with WD-40 once a week, it was a cleaning agent as well as a lubricant, but it got worse, we were hitting 30 below in the Winter, windchill's 70 below, and no heat, Carter had rationed us to 5 gallons a night a heater that needed 10 gallons to heat a 30 by 100' drafty ass Quonset hut for 8hrs.
The Army had been refused to issue extra blankets, so we were forced to screw with the carburetor to be as stingy as possible, so we could wake to freezing, instead of well below.
Those 5 gallons had to stretch to 8 hrs and that was virtually impossible in an uninsulated galvanized halfpipe tube.
Everyone was cranky, the entire camp, even the villagers were affected by our failed morale, far more than Kim Jong Il could ever accomplish. North Korean papers were laughing at our plight, yes, they made it front-page news the entire time I was there, and we deserved it, so to speak, anyway, Carter deserved it.
But it was this loss of morale that made us vulnerable and NK seized on the opportunity, from cross border skirmishes to IED's down the river, (though we simply called them booby traps then).
So in truth, this card isn't all that unbelievable considering what Carter oil crisis, Clinton (don't ask, don't tell) and the Marxist forcing the cultural change to a millennium of tradition, in forcing the military to allow sexual freaks amongst those dedicated to our very survival, now these same soldiers had one more thing to worry about, male on male rape.
It's obvious the left hates the military as well as our country, so much so, even the strangest roomer can become the norm.
Quote from: supsalemgr on April 09, 2019, 04:40:08 AM
Back when most of us were growing up the military was not the only place you were taught those basics. It came from parents, teachers and coaches as well.
I don't agree with this philosophy. The philosophy of unquestionable obedience to a given authority. B/c if I'm put on trial for something, "obeying orders" is not a valid defense.
Another thing, not all authority is an expert on everything.
Quote from: alienhand on April 11, 2019, 10:28:23 PM
I don't agree with this philosophy. The philosophy of unquestionable obedience to a given authority. B/c if I'm put on trial for something, "obeying orders" is not a valid defense.
Another thing, not all authority is an expert on everything.
And therein lies your basic problem. Understanding authority does not mean blind dedication. It is basic respect for authority. My parents were not brilliant people, but they knew a heck of a lot more than I did. As I look back on my parents, teachers and coaches I have no memory of bad advice.
Quote from: supsalemgr on April 12, 2019, 04:44:33 AM
And therein lies your basic problem. Understanding authority does not mean blind dedication. It is basic respect for authority. My parents were not brilliant people, but they knew a heck of a lot more than I did. As I look back on my parents, teachers and coaches I have no memory of bad advice.
Ah my friend, I see! In other words, I'm taking what you all are saying on authority to literally and to ironclad. In other words, I missed the context. That's what happened!
Note to self: When others communicate they have a certain context and intent they're coming from. Make sure to understand the context and intent.
And, I wouldn't mind doing Latrine duty. It wouldn't be the 1st time I cleaned up shit.
Quote from: alienhand on April 12, 2019, 06:49:49 AM
Ah my friend, I see! In other words, I'm taking what you all are saying on authority to literally and to ironclad. In other words, I missed the context. That's what happened!
Note to self: When others communicate they have a certain context and intent they're coming from. Make sure to understand the context and intent.
You should read some of the ancients work on thinking, like Machiavelli, or any one of the great thinkers of the past.
It may help give you a bit more insight into how real thinkers tackled the real problems.
Quote from: Solar on April 12, 2019, 07:49:32 AM
You should read some of the ancients work on thinking, like Machiavelli, or any one of the great thinkers of the past.
It may help give you a bit more insight into how real thinkers tackled the real problems.
I assume when you mean Machiavelli you mean Niccolo Machiavelli who wrote the book called "The Prince" and he said and I will paraphrase "A wise Prince will always keep his subjects in need of him so they may be faithful to him." And, not Tupac, right?
Quote from: alienhand on April 12, 2019, 09:00:37 AM
I assume when you mean Machiavelli you mean Niccolo Machiavelli who wrote the book called "The Prince" and he said and I will paraphrase "A wise Prince will always keep his subjects in need of him so they may be faithful to him." And, not Tupac, right?
Just in general reading, but yes, Niccolò Machiavelli.
Quote from: Solar on April 12, 2019, 09:53:53 AM
Just in general reading, but yes, Niccolò Machiavelli.
got ya
Quote from: supsalemgr on April 12, 2019, 04:44:33 AM
And therein lies your basic problem. Understanding authority does not mean blind dedication. It is basic respect for authority. My parents were not brilliant people, but they knew a heck of a lot more than I did. As I look back on my parents, teachers and coaches I have no memory of bad advice.
Sir, you must've lived in the town of Pleasantville then where everything is perfect and nothing ever goes wrong, authorities who give perfect advice, have the perfect circumstances, understand everything perfectly, their way of doing things is perfect and is completely selfless. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasantville_(film)
The millennials (or a number of them) are at where they're at including but not limited having student loan debt b/c of authority of those around them. It was b/c they listened to their parents, educators and those who were in charge of them they're at where they're at. Were they taught the way they were supposed to go by their parents, educators and others who were in charge of them as the Bible admonishes them to do?
If these "authorities" don't uphold their part and fill their charges with a bunch of lies and nonsense then how can one expect these charges to have the respect expected? Or these same authorities or at least some of them expect their charges to "figure it out themselves through life experiences." The millennials are where they're at b/c of those who had authority over them helped to lay down and the foundations of the world we live in today.
Respect has to come from trust. The trust in knowing that the advice being given is based in truth and not based in ignorance or duplicity. Quite honestly, I don't trust most authority figures. Authority figures are human and vulnerable to their own biases, prejudices, frailties, and their own imperfections. Even the Bible said to be aware of false prophets. To me, a trustworthy authority figure is open minded to being questioned and open to being wrong on something. And, they're willing to do what is right and thirst for righteousness and to thirst for why this something is righteousness. They're willing to investigate matters at hand and accept opposing evidence to their views and ways of doing things.
And, that's the thing. The next generation after the millennial need to hold those in authority over them accountable especially when it comes to their future. The future in theirs. Their lives are their own. They're personally responsible for themselves right and how their future will turn out. Their future is determined by the choices they make now and knowing what the truth is, correct? How can they do this if they're expected to submit themselves to authorities and these same authorities proclaim themselves as wise when these authorities are not as wise as they claim and give them a bunch of bullshit advice?
It doesn't mean that one should go out of his way to disrespect them, break laws or be rebellious for the sake of being rebellious. It doesn't mean to wear a mohawk cause everyone else wears a suit and tie. It means to hearken on to wise council and disregard the council that is false and not to let someone else's hypocrisy determine the choices one makes.
And, I think one of my teachers in my past was a pedophile. I didn't know the term at the time but I knew something was wrong. He liked this girl a lot way more then seemed appropriate. I didn't respect him then and I sure as shit don't respect him now.
I respectfully somewhat disagree. If respect means common courtesy I think we can be courteous and have common courtesy but if it means do what they want with no question especially if it affect's one's future then I'm very skeptical on this.
Do you all see why I don't trust authority and hold them in the same regard as you all do? I just can't.
Quote from: alienhand on April 16, 2019, 10:19:57 PM
Sir, you must've lived in the town of Pleasantville then where everything is perfect and nothing ever goes wrong, authorities who give perfect advice, have the perfect circumstances, understand everything perfectly, their way of doing things is perfect and is completely selfless. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasantville_(film)
The millennials (or a number of them) are at where they're at including but not limited having student loan debt b/c of authority of those around them. It was b/c they listened to their parents, educators and those who were in charge of them they're at where they're at. Were they taught the way they were supposed to go by their parents, educators and others who were in charge of them as the Bible admonishes them to do?
If these "authorities" don't uphold their part and fill their charges with a bunch of lies and nonsense then how can one expect these charges to have the respect expected? Or these same authorities or at least some of them expect their charges to "figure it out themselves through life experiences." The millennials are where they're at b/c of those who had authority over them helped to lay down and the foundations of the world we live in today.
Respect has to come from trust. The trust in knowing that the advice being given is based in truth and not based in ignorance or duplicity. Quite honestly, I don't trust most authority figures. Authority figures are human and vulnerable to their own biases, prejudices, frailties, and their own imperfections. Even the Bible said to be aware of false prophets. To me, a trustworthy authority figure is open minded to being questioned and open to being wrong on something. And, they're willing to do what is right and thirst for righteousness and to thirst for why this something is righteousness. They're willing to investigate matters at hand and accept opposing evidence to their views and ways of doing things.
And, that's the thing. The next generation after the millennial need to hold those in authority over them accountable especially when it comes to their future. The future in theirs. Their lives are their own. They're personally responsible for themselves right and how their future will turn out. Their future is determined by the choices they make now and knowing what the truth is, correct? How can they do this if they're expected to submit themselves to authorities and these same authorities proclaim themselves as wise when these authorities are not as wise as they claim and give them a bunch of bullshit advice?
It doesn't mean that one should go out of his way to disrespect them, break laws or be rebellious for the sake of being rebellious. It doesn't mean to wear a mohawk cause everyone else wears a suit and tie. It means to hearken on to wise council and disregard the council that is false and not to let someone else's hypocrisy determine the choices one makes.
And, I think one of my teachers in my past was a pedophile. I didn't know the term at the time but I knew something was wrong. He liked this girl a lot way more then seemed appropriate. I didn't respect him then and I sure as shit don't respect him now.
I respectfully somewhat disagree. If respect means common courtesy I think we can be courteous and have common courtesy but if it means do what they want with no question especially if it affect's one's future then I'm very skeptical on this.
Do you all see why I don't trust authority and hold them in the same regard as you all do? I just can't.
"Sir, you must've lived in the town of Pleasantville then where everything is perfect and nothing ever goes wrong, authorities who give perfect advice, have the perfect circumstances, understand everything perfectly, their way of doing things is perfect and is completely selfless."I grew up in the 50's in the segregated south. Therefore, I was not immune to less than "nice" talk and actions. Those who had not experienced those times would have a hard time comprehending what it was like.
I am sorry you mistrust authority. Quite frankly, that is a personal challenge. There are plenty examples of positive authority situations. This is where an individual must seek out the positive. Remember this old saying"
"If you think can - you're right. If you think think you can't - you are right".
It is up to you my friend.
Quote from: alienhand on April 16, 2019, 10:19:57 PM
Sir, you must've lived in the town of Pleasantville then where everything is perfect and nothing ever goes wrong, authorities who give perfect advice, have the perfect circumstances, understand everything perfectly, their way of doing things is perfect and is completely selfless. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasantville_(film)
The millennials (or a number of them) are at where they're at including but not limited having student loan debt b/c of authority of those around them. It was b/c they listened to their parents, educators and those who were in charge of them they're at where they're at. Were they taught the way they were supposed to go by their parents, educators and others who were in charge of them as the Bible admonishes them to do?
If these "authorities" don't uphold their part and fill their charges with a bunch of lies and nonsense then how can one expect these charges to have the respect expected? Or these same authorities or at least some of them expect their charges to "figure it out themselves through life experiences." The millennials are where they're at b/c of those who had authority over them helped to lay down and the foundations of the world we live in today.
Respect has to come from trust. The trust in knowing that the advice being given is based in truth and not based in ignorance or duplicity. Quite honestly, I don't trust most authority figures. Authority figures are human and vulnerable to their own biases, prejudices, frailties, and their own imperfections. Even the Bible said to be aware of false prophets. To me, a trustworthy authority figure is open minded to being questioned and open to being wrong on something. And, they're willing to do what is right and thirst for righteousness and to thirst for why this something is righteousness. They're willing to investigate matters at hand and accept opposing evidence to their views and ways of doing things.
And, that's the thing. The next generation after the millennial need to hold those in authority over them accountable especially when it comes to their future. The future in theirs. Their lives are their own. They're personally responsible for themselves right and how their future will turn out. Their future is determined by the choices they make now and knowing what the truth is, correct? How can they do this if they're expected to submit themselves to authorities and these same authorities proclaim themselves as wise when these authorities are not as wise as they claim and give them a bunch of bullshit advice?
It doesn't mean that one should go out of his way to disrespect them, break laws or be rebellious for the sake of being rebellious. It doesn't mean to wear a mohawk cause everyone else wears a suit and tie. It means to hearken on to wise council and disregard the council that is false and not to let someone else's hypocrisy determine the choices one makes.
And, I think one of my teachers in my past was a pedophile. I didn't know the term at the time but I knew something was wrong. He liked this girl a lot way more then seemed appropriate. I didn't respect him then and I sure as shit don't respect him now.
I respectfully somewhat disagree. If respect means common courtesy I think we can be courteous and have common courtesy but if it means do what they want with no question especially if it affect's one's future then I'm very skeptical on this.
Do you all see why I don't trust authority and hold them in the same regard as you all do? I just can't.
Pleasantville does not exist, has not existed, will not exist in the future. If this is what you are looking for you might as well stop. We stopped looking a long time ago, along with looking for santa, easter bunny, tooth fairy, ect. If you are still looking may I ask why? If you are thinking we have too many hardships facing us in today's world its a damn good thing you were born in today's world, hate to tell you this, but we as a society have it pretty damn easy compared to what the world has been. What the past generations had was the guts and stamina to overcome it and make it better for the next generations. It's pretty hard to accomplish anything worthwhile while you're busy blaming others for not being up to your standards. this sentence stands out
Do you all see why I don't trust authority and hold them in the same regard as you all do? Try saying it this way : Do you all see why I don't trust myself and hold me in the same regard as you all do? Most of us, make that all of us, deal with hardships, disappointments, deaths, happenings that are beyond our control, ect. If you are busy concentrating on those you will not see all of the good things that happen to us also.
Quote from: s3779m on April 17, 2019, 04:35:27 AM
Pleasantville does not exist, has not existed, will not exist in the future. If this is what you are looking for you might as well stop. We stopped looking a long time ago, along with looking for santa, easter bunny, tooth fairy, ect. If you are still looking may I ask why? If you are thinking we have too many hardships facing us in today's world its a damn good thing you were born in today's world, hate to tell you this, but we as a society have it pretty damn easy compared to what the world has been. What the past generations had was the guts and stamina to overcome it and make it better for the next generations. It's pretty hard to accomplish anything worthwhile while you're busy blaming others for not being up to your standards. this sentence stands out Do you all see why I don't trust authority and hold them in the same regard as you all do? Try saying it this way : Do you all see why I don't trust myself and hold me in the same regard as you all do? Most of us, make that all of us, deal with hardships, disappointments, deaths, happenings that are beyond our control, ect. If you are busy concentrating on those you will not see all of the good things that happen to us also.
You missed the entire point. The point I was making is if future want a better chance at a future (no guarantees) then they need to question what they're told is true about reality even if it is from a respected authority. Be courteous to authority figures but be skeptical on what they say. If the millenials questioned things while they were in school and knew how and what to ask I believe you would more likely see better success from them. The next gen needs to be courteous, question authority, have a skeptical mind, don't follow your passion or your dreams but follow reality and economics. Use your brain and not your heart! Accept that things will happen and things will go wrong no matter how much you think things through. And, learn about the industry before trying to jump into it whether it is being a scientist or being a plumber. Learn, ask questions, don't just accept what anyone says at face value not your parents, ministers, coaches, experts, etc.
And, don't let any stop you from doing what you think you can do and don't let others ca-jole you and manipulate you into doing things you can't do. Only you know you and you understand you. Yes, listen to the experts and the wise but be skeptical of their advice and teachings may or may not be right for you.
That's the point!
Quote from: alienhand on April 16, 2019, 10:19:57 PM
Sir, you must've lived in the town of Pleasantville then where everything is perfect and nothing ever goes wrong, authorities who give perfect advice, have the perfect circumstances, understand everything perfectly, their way of doing things is perfect and is completely selfless. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasantville_(film)
The millennials (or a number of them) are at where they're at including but not limited having student loan debt b/c of authority of those around them. It was b/c they listened to their parents, educators and those who were in charge of them they're at where they're at. Were they taught the way they were supposed to go by their parents, educators and others who were in charge of them as the Bible admonishes them to do?
If these "authorities" don't uphold their part and fill their charges with a bunch of lies and nonsense then how can one expect these charges to have the respect expected? Or these same authorities or at least some of them expect their charges to "figure it out themselves through life experiences." The millennials are where they're at b/c of those who had authority over them helped to lay down and the foundations of the world we live in today.
Respect has to come from trust. The trust in knowing that the advice being given is based in truth and not based in ignorance or duplicity. Quite honestly, I don't trust most authority figures. Authority figures are human and vulnerable to their own biases, prejudices, frailties, and their own imperfections. Even the Bible said to be aware of false prophets. To me, a trustworthy authority figure is open minded to being questioned and open to being wrong on something. And, they're willing to do what is right and thirst for righteousness and to thirst for why this something is righteousness. They're willing to investigate matters at hand and accept opposing evidence to their views and ways of doing things.
And, that's the thing. The next generation after the millennial need to hold those in authority over them accountable especially when it comes to their future. The future in theirs. Their lives are their own. They're personally responsible for themselves right and how their future will turn out. Their future is determined by the choices they make now and knowing what the truth is, correct? How can they do this if they're expected to submit themselves to authorities and these same authorities proclaim themselves as wise when these authorities are not as wise as they claim and give them a bunch of bullshit advice?
It doesn't mean that one should go out of his way to disrespect them, break laws or be rebellious for the sake of being rebellious. It doesn't mean to wear a mohawk cause everyone else wears a suit and tie. It means to hearken on to wise council and disregard the council that is false and not to let someone else's hypocrisy determine the choices one makes.
And, I think one of my teachers in my past was a pedophile. I didn't know the term at the time but I knew something was wrong. He liked this girl a lot way more then seemed appropriate. I didn't respect him then and I sure as shit don't respect him now.
I respectfully somewhat disagree. If respect means common courtesy I think we can be courteous and have common courtesy but if it means do what they want with no question especially if it affect's one's future then I'm very skeptical on this.
Do you all see why I don't trust authority and hold them in the same regard as you all do? I just can't.
I'd like to expand on something you said here.
This was another aspect of the Marxists plan of taking over America. Take over the schools, higher education, start pushing the idea that without a degree, you'll always be stuck in menial labor.
But not everyone wanted, or had the skills to be a scientist or doctor, so they created the Liberal Arts degree, then managed to force Govt into requiring some form of higher learning degree, of course now that they've done this, they needed to fund these colleges because they couldn't deal with the new influx of people entering college. See where this is going?
May parents weren't aware of the Marxist infiltration taking place, all they saw was opportunity for their kids, one they never had, so they pushed them into local colleges in hopes of attending one of the elite colleges around the nation, at the time, a near guaranteed success certificate for life.
That all began to be exposed in the 70s, when "Affirmative Action" hit the nation like a bat upside the head in a dark alley and mugged America. Though that's another story for another time.
Fast forward to today, where a bunch of leftist celebrities have been indicted in a pay to play scheme for their kids to enter these institutions as it becomes clear to the rest of the world, that these universities are nothing more than a scam and why so many kids are saddled with debt they'll never be able to pull off.
In steps Obozo and his bailout for these scam colleges in promising to cover these debts with taxpayer dollars.
Anywhere you find corruption in this country, you find leftists, because Conservatives believe in a fair playing field.
And before you claim so and so did it and they were Republicans? They were not Conservatives.
Quote from: Solar on April 17, 2019, 10:19:14 AM
I'd like to expand on something you said here.
This was another aspect of the Marxists plan of taking over America. Take over the schools, higher education, start pushing the idea that without a degree, you'll always be stuck in menial labor.
But not everyone wanted, or had the skills to be a scientist or doctor, so they created the Liberal Arts degree, then managed to force Govt into requiring some form of higher learning degree, of course now that they've done this, they needed to fund these colleges because they couldn't deal with the new influx of people entering college. See where this is going?
Solar, you know what you're excellent at. You're good at seeing the bigger picture of things. Me, I can't do that to save my life. I end up in the weeds like you said. When I think through what you said, a lot of my teachers, educators, administrators and others in my life were and are leftists. So, there does seem to be a strong correlation here.
Another thing, is menial labor such a bad thing? Why is it wrong to do menial labor? Why look down upon it? I've looked through my family's history My great-grandfather, a jewish immigrant came here and he made a living by being a street sweeper. He made a living for himself and his family. He didn't need a college degree. Yet, he still did good for himself and his family.
Quote from: Solar on April 17, 2019, 10:19:14 AM
May parents weren't aware of the Marxist infiltration taking place, all they saw was opportunity for their kids, one they never had, so they pushed them into local colleges in hopes of attending one of the elite colleges around the nation, at the time, a near guaranteed success certificate for life.
And, none of the parents really thought this through especially in economic terms. Wouldn't they think that this whole idea of everyone going to college thing would artificially over-inflate the supply of labor? You have more potential candidates then there are jobs to go around. You would think that they would have thought this through and would have concluded that this makes no sense.
Quote from: Solar on April 17, 2019, 10:19:14 AM
That all began to be exposed in the 70s, when "Affirmative Action" hit the nation like a bat upside the head in a dark alley and mugged America. Though that's another story for another time.
Agreed! Let's leave it for another time.
Quote from: Solar on April 17, 2019, 10:19:14 AM
Fast forward to today, where a bunch of leftist celebrities have been indicted in a pay to play scheme for their kids to enter these institutions as it becomes clear to the rest of the world, that these universities are nothing more than a scam and why so many kids are saddled with debt they'll never be able to pull off.
Ya, and it is entirely fucked up. It's b/c a lot of these celebs believe in order for their child to succeed in life they have to go to college. And, b/c of the influx of ppl going college becomes a lot more competitive. Over abundance of supply of labor. Supply becomes greater then demand.
So, here's my question. If these kids have been scammed and I think they have then morally should they be forced to pay off this debt or shouldn't the scammers be forced to pay off this debt?
Quote from: Solar on April 17, 2019, 10:19:14 AM
In steps Obozo and his bailout for these scam colleges in promising to cover these debts with taxpayer dollars.
This is why I think that the maxim "life is not fair" and we should accept this maxim as truth is bullshit. To me, it's bullshit to punish those who had nothing to do with the scam. And, when you charge this to taxpayers that's what one is doing. And, in this case shouldn't life be more fair and one should demand life to be more fairer in this case?
Quote from: Solar on April 17, 2019, 10:19:14 AM
Anywhere you find corruption in this country, you find leftists, because Conservatives believe in a fair playing field.
And before you claim so and so did it and they were Republicans? They were not Conservatives.
I believe in a fair playing field as well.
Another thing. Personally, I think there is an over-emphasis on academics especially that we're all forced to learn through government law and edict. Why am I learning things like the quadratic formula which is so goddamned long? And, once I learn it for the test I end up forgetting it anywhere. I've never used it in my entire life so far.
Wouldn't it make more sense for me to have learned life skills like first aid, work ethic, how to interview properly, etc, etc instead of being forced by the gov't to go to school to learn useless shit? Why aren't parents allowed to determine the curriculum for their own children as appropriate? Why is the department of education deemed more fit to determine what one's child will learn then the parents and how this child will learn it? Why can't parents be allowed to shop around to determine the best fit for their children? And, as a person gets older that person determines his own best fit?
Solar, you, walkstall, supersalesmgr, other people on here come from more rural areas. How would someone who is removed from you and lives in a city be the better fit at determining what your children should learn and how they should learn it?
I know what I want to do. I want to fight back against the liars and deceivers who set today's youth down a bad path and get the next gen on a better one.
Quote from: alienhand on April 17, 2019, 09:15:53 PM
Solar, you know what you're excellent at. You're good at seeing the bigger picture of things. Me, I can't do that to save my life. I end up in the weeds like you said. When I think through what you said, a lot of my teachers, educators, administrators and others in my life were and are leftists. So, there does seem to be a strong correlation here.
Another thing, is menial labor such a bad thing? Why is it wrong to do menial labor? Why look down upon it? I've looked through my family's history My great-grandfather, a jewish immigrant came here and he made a living by being a street sweeper. He made a living for himself and his family. He didn't need a college degree. Yet, he still did good for himself and his family.
And, none of the parents really thought this through especially in economic terms. Wouldn't they think that this whole idea of everyone going to college thing would artificially over-inflate the supply of labor? You have more potential candidates then there are jobs to go around. You would think that they would have thought this through and would have concluded that this makes no sense.
Agreed! Let's leave it for another time.
Ya, and it is entirely fucked up. It's b/c a lot of these celebs believe in order for their child to succeed in life they have to go to college. And, b/c of the influx of ppl going college becomes a lot more competitive. Over abundance of supply of labor. Supply becomes greater then demand.
So, here's my question. If these kids have been scammed and I think they have then morally should they be forced to pay off this debt or shouldn't the scammers be forced to pay off this debt?
This is why I think that the maxim "life is not fair" and we should accept this maxim as truth is bullshit. To me, it's bullshit to punish those who had nothing to do with the scam. And, when you charge this to taxpayers that's what one is doing. And, in this case shouldn't life be more fair and one should demand life to be more fairer in this case?
I believe in a fair playing field as well.
Another thing. Personally, I think there is an over-emphasis on academics especially that we're all forced to learn through government law and edict. Why am I learning things like the quadratic formula which is so goddamned long? And, once I learn it for the test I end up forgetting it anywhere. I've never used it in my entire life so far.
Wouldn't it make more sense for me to have learned life skills like first aid, work ethic, how to interview properly, etc, etc instead of being forced by the gov't to go to school to learn useless shit? Why aren't parents allowed to determine the curriculum for their own children as appropriate? Why is the department of education deemed more fit to determine what one's child will learn then the parents and how this child will learn it? Why can't parents be allowed to shop around to determine the best fit for their children? And, as a person gets older that person determines his own best fit?
Solar, you, walkstall, supersalesmgr, other people on here come from more rural areas. How would someone who is removed from you and lives in a city be the better fit at determining what your children should learn and how they should learn it?
I know what I want to do. I want to fight back against the liars and deceivers who set today's youth down a bad path and get the next gen on a better one.
You're getting it. Here's the thing, if you think like a lib, you'll be perpetually confused, but if you use critical thought based in values and morals, you'll find the answers come much easier.
Seriously, don't simply accept the lies because that appears to be how things work, stand your ground if you know something is wrong.
Lifes answers will come easier if you base your life on values tried and tested over millennium.
The left hates us for this, which is why they're fighting so damned hard to destroy everything that works.
Quote from: Solar on April 17, 2019, 09:37:33 PM
You're getting it. Here's the thing, if you think like a lib, you'll be perpetually confused, but if you use critical thought based in values and morals, you'll find the answers come much easier.
I can do that.
Quote from: Solar on April 17, 2019, 10:19:14 AM
Seriously, don't simply accept the lies because that appears to be how things work, stand your ground if you know something is wrong.
I defintely agree with ya!
Quote from: Solar on April 17, 2019, 10:19:14 AM
Lifes answers will come easier if you base your life on values tried and tested over millennium.
The left hates us for this, which is why they're fighting so damned hard to destroy everything that works.
I like this. Base my life that is based upon values tried and tested over millennium. Look at what actually works and what made societies flourish and look at what doesn't work and made societies decline.
Societies are based in relationships of individuals interacting with each other for differing reasons. Relationships are the glue that hold society together.
To have successful relationships they must be based in trust, love and they must be free of duplicity.
No relationship can be forced. You can't force others to be together who don't wish to be together.
Quote from: alienhand on April 17, 2019, 10:51:39 PM
I can do that.
I defintely agree with ya!
I like this. Base my life that is based upon values tried and tested over millennium. Look at what actually works and what made societies flourish and look at what doesn't work and made societies decline.
Societies are based in relationships of individuals interacting with each other for differing reasons. Relationships are the glue that hold society together.
To have successful relationships they must be based in trust, love and they must be free of duplicity.
No relationship can be forced. You can't force others to be together who don't wish to be together.
Our Founders understood this and why they based it on Laws of Nature and Nature's God - True Foundation of Law.
Look it up, the left despises it, the right lives by it, as did millennium of people since the beginning of man.
Laws of Nature and Nature's God - True Foundation of Law
Quote from: Solar on April 18, 2019, 07:52:57 AM
Our Founders understood this and why they based it on Laws of Nature and Nature's God - True Foundation of Law.
Look it up, the left despises it, the right lives by it, as did millennium of people since the beginning of man.
Laws of Nature and Nature's God - True Foundation of Law
I think I understand. Every species and every individual of that species has a nature or a default operating system. When we understand and go by that we can thrive. When we don't we fail.
Quote from: alienhand on April 18, 2019, 10:23:37 AM
I think I understand. Every species and every individual of that species has a nature or a default operating system. When we understand and go by that we can thrive. When we don't we fail.
Pretty much. You can't break the laws of Nature without severe consequence.
Quote from: alienhand on April 17, 2019, 08:30:00 AM
You missed the entire point. The point I was making is if future want a better chance at a future (no guarantees) then they need to question what they're told is true about reality even if it is from a respected authority. Be courteous to authority figures but be skeptical on what they say. If the millenials questioned things while they were in school and knew how and what to ask I believe you would more likely see better success from them. The next gen needs to be courteous, question authority, have a skeptical mind, don't follow your passion or your dreams but follow reality and economics. Use your brain and not your heart! Accept that things will happen and things will go wrong no matter how much you think things through. And, learn about the industry before trying to jump into it whether it is being a scientist or being a plumber. Learn, ask questions, don't just accept what anyone says at face value not your parents, ministers, coaches, experts, etc.
And, don't let any stop you from doing what you think you can do and don't let others ca-jole you and manipulate you into doing things you can't do. Only you know you and you understand you. Yes, listen to the experts and the wise but be skeptical of their advice and teachings may or may not be right for you.
That's the point!
This is what my answer referred to "Sir, you must've lived in the town of Pleasantville then where everything is perfect and nothing ever goes wrong, authorities who give perfect advice, have the perfect circumstances, understand everything perfectly, their way of doing things is perfect and is completely selfless. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasantville_(film). Your posts are different, I usually spend more time trying to understand them to see what you are saying, just skimmed over this one and missed your point.
Quote from: s3779m on April 19, 2019, 05:17:22 AM
This is what my answer referred to "Sir, you must've lived in the town of Pleasantville then where everything is perfect and nothing ever goes wrong, authorities who give perfect advice, have the perfect circumstances, understand everything perfectly, their way of doing things is perfect and is completely selfless. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasantville_(film). Your posts are different, I usually spend more time trying to understand them to see what you are saying, just skimmed over this one and missed your point.
My posts are different? What do you mean?
The reason I ask is I would like to make my posts more readable to you. What would help me to accomplish this is to tell me what parts you don't understand.
Quote from: alienhand on April 19, 2019, 09:04:25 AM
My posts are different? What do you mean?
The reason I ask is I would like to make my posts more readable to you. What would help me to accomplish this is to tell me what parts you don't understand.
Much more into detail. I'm not saying that good or bad, I just need to read them slower. :thumbup: