Quote from: Mountainshield on August 13, 2015, 08:35:51 AM
You still misunderstand me, in a sample of for example 100,000 individuals randomly chosen there will be if you take ethnicity and income into account there is a correlation between the two. The reasons for this is numerous and quite frankly uninteresting as long as there is a free market, but one of the reasons for blacks in the Americas is the history of slavery and the Cultural implications it has had. While at the same time the small enough factor of genetic heritage will always account for some difference racial income inequality when you do put a large enough group of people together.

Half of my family is black, I have one cousin who is a drug addict whereas his brother is a successful architect with his own company. They both come from the same black household and same upbringing. Of course there is a huge difference at the individual level, but you have to understand that liberals don't care about individuals, they only look at the statistics and the statistics says women earn less money than men therefore there is oppression against women and they look at black's and see that they are more likely to in prison than a white and conclude that there is oppression against black people or racists look at the crime and income statistics and conclude blacks are naturally more criminal or inferior.

There will never be complete equality for both cultural and historic reasons, but also genetic reasons. If we continue to strive for that type of equality we are ruining society in the process as we are striving for impossible. As conservatives we understand "material" equality doesn't really matter as the only equality that matter is under the law, everything else is ones own responsibility.

@kroz, ah I see, but I would still argue that as a society with different social groups and especially immigration we need indoctrination of national unity.

Edit: Btw I have had this conversation with many black people both in and outside my family and they all say without any problem that black people are different from white people even outside culture and skin color. It takes a liberal or a racist to conclude that because of this difference one of the races is worth more or less or should get different laws/services.

I basically agree with everything you say, mountainshield.  I especially agree with the highlighted paragraph above.

As a Nation we have been so blinded by political correctness that we are growing increasingly incapable of acknowledging the obvious.   

Quote from: Mountainshield on August 13, 2015, 08:35:51 AM
You still misunderstand me, in a sample of for example 100,000 individuals randomly chosen there will be if you take ethnicity and income into account there is a correlation between the two. The reasons for this is numerous and quite frankly uninteresting as long as there is a free market, but one of the reasons for blacks in the Americas is the history of slavery and the Cultural implications it has had. While at the same time the small enough factor of genetic heritage will always account for some difference racial income inequality when you do put a large enough group of people together.

I will concede that blacks have been behind economically because of slavery, and Jim Crow laws.  Those are now in the past.  It's time to progress towards the idea of equality across the board.  Time to bring out MLK's dream again and put the victim merchants in the dust bin.  Asians applying to college lose points on their  SAT scores as do whites, while blacks are given added points.  Is this really what people want?  That's a good way to create resentment and keep the divisions alive.  Does the rising tide lift all boats or not?  Are some supposed to get buoyed up even when the tide isn't rising?

I'm sorry that this country had slavery.  But to my knowledge none of my ancestors had any, they were all poor dirt farmers.  I even had thee gg-grandfathers fight in the civil war.  One died, one was disabled and the other one made out okay physically.  They all fought for the north, if that makes any difference.  I've never been prejudiced, and quite frankly I'm tired of people trying to keep the whole slavery, victim thing going.   

Quote from: Dori on August 13, 2015, 11:35:22 AM
I will concede that blacks have been behind economically because of slavery, and Jim Crow laws.  Those are now in the past.  It's time to progress towards the idea of equality across the board.  Time to bring out MLK's dream again and put the victim merchants in the dust bin.  Asians applying to college lose points on their  SAT scores as do whites, while blacks are given added points.  Is this really what people want?  That's a good way to create resentment and keep the divisions alive.  Does the rising tide lift all boats or not?  Are some supposed to get buoyed up even when the tide isn't rising?

I'm sorry that this country had slavery.  But to my knowledge none of my ancestors had any, they were all poor dirt farmers.  I even had thee gg-grandfathers fight in the civil war.  One died, one was disabled and the other one made out okay physically.  They all fought for the north, if that makes any difference.  I've never been prejudiced, and quite frankly I'm tired of people trying to keep the whole slavery, victim thing going.

Yes exactly, positive action/positive racism which liberals use to force equality through tailoring systems to benefit some ethnicity and punish others breed contempt and only increase racism and division. It's a win-win for the liberals, the state gets more controlled, the bureaucracy expands to oversee racial equality, people are divided between ethnic groups fighting for increase in welfare which is easier to control than individual families wanting to improve their economic lot through opportunity and lower taxes.

What conservatives need to do about the legacy of slavery which is still prominent factor for the racial inequality in income and crime in the Americas is to acknowledge the fact and stand firm that in the free market capitalist system we have today that even though more black than whites start at lower economic point due to slavery both have the same chance to succeed through hard work as there is no institutional racism. It is a sad part of history but humanity's history is a sad one universally, capitalism solves the problem today with freedom. This is not the case of Latin America though, and here conservatives can show the true face of leftism by highlighting the racist socialist in Cuba, Mexico, Venezuela and Brazil.

When confronted with slavery it is my own perception that many conservatives tries to explain it away with civil war reference being about state rights and not slavery in order to derail the debate, or that slavery has no cultural implications today whatsoever and that the black culture of criminal behavior that about 10-20% of American black has embraced is self inflicted. This is a losing argument because it is factually/historically wrong and it is only conceding the debate over to both the liberals and the racists. We should not be afraid of this topic, because racial division is the domain of the leftist of both national socialists and socialists and it is only increasing, we can't surrender this topic to them when it is becoming both in USA through Obama and in Europe through Brussels the most important topic in our society because it threaten civil society and civilization.