Quote from: Sick Of Silence on February 21, 2019, 12:36:44 PM

....does not allow me to proud to be white (a.k.a. who I am as a person) or try to hold me down....

So, I don't derail this thread (Following Solar's standard to the best of my ability) I want to respond to this.   To me, it has never, ever made any kind of logical sense to be proud of who one is like being American, Chinese, Black, White, intelligent, Jewish, etc, etc.  What did one do to earn these things?   One is born between differing latitudinal and longitudinal coordinates.  To me, to be proud of these things that are simply intrinsic seem empty and frivolous to me.   What did one do to achieve these things? 

I'm proud that our country was the first country to send the first man to the moon and what we've accomplished but simply to be proud that one is and was born as an American is nonsense, frivolous, meaningless and empty. 

It's like saying one is proud of one's hair color.  What the living fuck!  It's just stupid.  It's beyond retarded.   Maybe it's me and I simply don't get it.

I have a chain saw.  Big fucking deal!   I use that to cut down a tree!  That's an accomplishment.  That's something to be proud of especially if it is one's first time.

Quote from: alienhand on February 22, 2019, 05:03:27 AM
So, I don't derail this thread (Following Solar's standard to the best of my ability) I want to respond to this.   To me, it has never, ever made any kind of logical sense to be proud of who one is like being American, Chinese, Black, White, intelligent, Jewish, etc, etc.  What did one do to earn these things?   One is born between differing latitudinal and longitudinal coordinates.  To me, to be proud of these things that are simply intrinsic seem empty and frivolous to me.   What did one do to achieve these things? 

I'm proud that our country was the first country to send the first man to the moon and what we've accomplished but simply to be proud that one is and was born as an American is nonsense, frivolous, meaningless and empty. 

It's like saying one is proud of one's hair color.  What the living fuck!  It's just stupid.  It's beyond retarded.   Maybe it's me and I simply don't get it.

I have a chain saw.  Big fucking deal!   I use that to cut down a tree!  That's an accomplishment.  That's something to be proud of especially if it is one's first time.

What some of the people are saying when stating they are proud of who they are, is that they are proud of their heritage. If one looks hard enough at the past we will find and learn volumes to be proud of. Quick question, are you proud of all the young men who have died for your freedoms, I believe the libs are ashamed of those young men. There is nothing wrong to say you are proud to be an American or to say you are proud of your heritage. It is the left who is saying you are a racist if you are proud.

Quote from: alienhand on February 22, 2019, 05:03:27 AM
So, I don't derail this thread (Following Solar's standard to the best of my ability) I want to respond to this.   To me, it has never, ever made any kind of logical sense to be proud of who one is like being American, Chinese, Black, White, intelligent, Jewish, etc, etc.  What did one do to earn these things?   One is born between differing latitudinal and longitudinal coordinates.  To me, to be proud of these things that are simply intrinsic seem empty and frivolous to me.   What did one do to achieve these things? 

I'm proud that our country was the first country to send the first man to the moon and what we've accomplished but simply to be proud that one is and was born as an American is nonsense, frivolous, meaningless and empty. 

It's like saying one is proud of one's hair color.  What the living fuck!  It's just stupid.  It's beyond retarded.   Maybe it's me and I simply don't get it.

I have a chain saw.  Big fucking deal!   I use that to cut down a tree!  That's an accomplishment.  That's something to be proud of especially if it is one's first time.

I think you are missing the point on "proud to be an American". Personally, I make it a point to use "grateful" rather then "proud". I think it suits me better as pride can become destructive. I am grateful to be an American because it makes me a member of the greatest country in the history of the world. Our country is a living entity so it is not above making mistakes. However, as whole our country tries to what is right.

Quote from: alienhand on February 22, 2019, 05:03:27 AM
So, I don't derail this thread (Following Solar's standard to the best of my ability) I want to respond to this.   To me, it has never, ever made any kind of logical sense to be proud of who one is like being American, Chinese, Black, White, intelligent, Jewish, etc, etc.  What did one do to earn these things?   One is born between differing latitudinal and longitudinal coordinates.  To me, to be proud of these things that are simply intrinsic seem empty and frivolous to me.   What did one do to achieve these things? 

I'm proud that our country was the first country to send the first man to the moon and what we've accomplished but simply to be proud that one is and was born as an American is nonsense, frivolous, meaningless and empty. 

It's like saying one is proud of one's hair color.  What the living fuck!  It's just stupid.  It's beyond retarded.   Maybe it's me and I simply don't get it.

I have a chain saw.  Big fucking deal!   I use that to cut down a tree!  That's an accomplishment.  That's something to be proud of especially if it is one's first time.

I don't think about the color of my skin. I just go about my day. But, everybody else can be proud of their skin color. Why can't we? That's real equality. But, we can't. We get labeled something negative like a white supremacist. We can't be proud to be white. We are not allowed because the color of our skin. That is real racism and not some long forgotten black facing at a costume party.

It leads back to the original question: who decides what is appropriate and what is not? Who decides who's opinion is valid? Who decides what opinion is valid? What decides if it should be dismissed or needs attention?

Quote from: Sick Of Silence on February 22, 2019, 12:08:46 PM
I don't think about the color of my skin. I just go about my day. But, everybody else can be proud of their skin color. Why can't we? That's real equality. But, we can't. We get labeled something negative like a white supremacist. We can't be proud to be white. We are not allowed because the color of our skin. That is real racism and not some long forgotten black facing at a costume party.

I get what you are saying.  It is inconsistent isn't it? 

Quote from: Sick Of Silence on February 22, 2019, 12:08:46 PM
It leads back to the original question: who decides what is appropriate and what is not? Who decides who's opinion is valid? Who decides what opinion is valid? What decides if it should be dismissed or needs attention?

I say on things like this I say you should decide for yourself using logic and reason and your gut instinct?  Does it make sense?  Does it feel right to you?  For me, it simply doesn't feel right or make sense to be proud of something that is intrinsic or given to me by fate, design, by happen stance, etc?  I simply don't have the feelings of pride for my race or heritage.  That's just me.  If you feel this pride and others are saying you shouldn't feel this pride I say fuck em.  Do what is good for you as long as you bring no harm to anyone else. 

Quote from: s3779m on February 22, 2019, 06:33:09 AM
What some of the people are saying when stating they are proud of who they are, is that they are proud of their heritage. If one looks hard enough at the past we will find and learn volumes to be proud of. Quick question, are you proud of all the young men who have died for your freedoms, I believe the libs are ashamed of those young men. There is nothing wrong to say you are proud to be an American or to say you are proud of your heritage. It is the left who is saying you are a racist if you are proud.

Ok, let me answer.  The answer to your question is both yes and no and I will explain as the question is overly-simplistic.  Let me tackle the no part first.

1.  No, b/c I wouldn't want anyone to die.   The death of someone is horrible for one's loved ones. 

2.  Now, let me tackle the yes part.  Assuming that pride in this context means a deep high respect and high regard then I have a deep and profound high respect and regard for those who were willing to fight for not only my freedom and the freedom of my fellow countrymen but for the freedom of those around the world as well still shackled in bondage.  If they were even willing to disobey orders that were immoral and corrupt to fight for this freedom then my regard goes higher. 

Quote from: alienhand on February 22, 2019, 07:22:11 PM
Ok, let me answer.  The answer to your question is both yes and no and I will explain as the question is overly-simplistic.  Let me tackle the no part first.

1.  No, b/c I wouldn't want anyone to die.   The death of someone is horrible for one's loved ones. 

2.  Now, let me tackle the yes part.  Assuming that pride in this context means a deep high respect and high regard then I have a deep and profound high respect and regard for those who were willing to fight for not only my freedom and the freedom of my fellow countrymen but for the freedom of those around the world as well still shackled in bondage.  If they were even willing to disobey orders that were immoral and corrupt to fight for this freedom then my regard goes higher.

Well said. Great description of our founding fathers and their army. Should that respect make you a racist? As for the first part, yes death is horrible, but they did not die in vain, they died so others could be free, the ultimate sacrifice. 

Quote from: s3779m on February 23, 2019, 02:33:11 AM
Well said. Great description of our founding fathers and their army. Should that respect make you a racist? As for the first part, yes death is horrible, but they did not die in vain, they died so others could be free, the ultimate sacrifice.

I never thought of it that way.  When people break things down for me like you did it helps me to grasp things.  No, it doesn't make me racist.