My Issues with Personal Responsibility Advocates

Started by cubedemon, June 22, 2015, 11:48:52 PM

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Solar

Quote from: Dori on June 24, 2015, 03:42:39 PM
I would probably have moved the pot to the front left.  But even if you moved it to the back, would it have really mattered?  Some things in life like that aren't worth worrying about. 

I think your too hard on yourself.  In a way, there is a certain kind of sweet honesty, in being literal.  I'm wondering if some of your frustration isn't because someone in your life is, or was, being too critical, knowing that you do think this way.
I agree, and well said.
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Solar

Quote from: walkstall on June 24, 2015, 02:41:13 PM
My wife to this day has her moments.   Some days you have to dot all your i's and cross all your t's when talking with her.  She can not look at a news paper with out tell me all the mistakes in the way they write each article.    She is a grammar queen, when I go into town on Monday's and Friday's I get her 2 papers.  She tells me ever thing that's wrong in each article.   My kids got A's in there home work  :lol:  she would not let them take in something that was not worded right.   As it would make her look bad as a mom.
Yeah, my mom was emphatic about grammar, always correcting us. She hated the paper for this reason, she'd miss the point of the article due to poor structure, if it wasn't perfect, she couldn't understand the premise of what they were saying.
I'm a bit like this as well, if someone uses poor context, I literally quit reading their post, it's like deciphering code to my mind.
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cubedemon

Solar

If you don't mind, I would like to get back to the original topic.   I would like to make a comment about the idea of common sense which has been brought up to me.   Common sense assumes that our experiences and our interpretation of our experiences is similar.   Therein lies the problem.  This is not always true.   

Coming from this and my Autism as well, I have no clue as to what these terms even mean: real world and starting at the bottom.   

In order for one to start at the bottom one has to know where this bottom is at.   For example, let's say one wants and desires to be a programmer?   To achieve this position, how does one do this?   Where is the bottom in the hierarchy?   Imagine we have a hierarchical chart.   What are the levels that one must achieve to do this and what are specific and concrete steps that one must do to achieve these levels? 

Does one go to college and get an IT degree with an emphasis in Software Development and slide into a job just like that or is there more one must do?   What is the criteria that one must satisfy to become a programmer and how does one achieve this criteria?   

What are the specific, absolute, correct, detailed instructions that one must do to achieve a programmer position in any company whatsoever?   

I've been told to go out into the real world?   What does this mean exactly in specific and concrete detail?   Do you mean American society?  Do you mean I must socialize with other people?   

Are children literally supposed to be 100% obedient to their parents and obey them 100%?  What does it mean to honor one's father and mother?   What if a parent is a pedophile?  What if a parent encourages a child to steal?  Is the child allowed to disobey?    If a parent says not to interrupt adults when they're speaking is this ironclad and absolute or are there exceptions?   For example, what if a child's brother is choking?   Is the child allowed to interrupt adults when they're speaking in this type of situation?   

What exactly is the absolute and correct way that one must go in concrete and specific detail?

Solar

Quote from: cubedemon on June 24, 2015, 05:36:38 PM
Solar

If you don't mind, I would like to get back to the original topic.   I would like to make a comment about the idea of common sense which has been brought up to me.   Common sense assumes that our experiences and our interpretation of our experiences is similar.   Therein lies the problem.  This is not always true.   
Common sense is knowing not to step out in front of an oncoming car to cross the street.
Critical thinking would be closer to finding an intersection with a light.
Not great examples, but they'll suffice

QuoteComing from this and my Autism as well, I have no clue as to what these terms even mean: real world and starting at the bottom.

Starting at the bottom of any job, is usually the entry level position, from gopher, to sweeping floors. Once they see you are a capable worker, thorough and fast, they find out your skill set and interests and try and fit you to a job.
Once placed within the company as part of the inner workings of the business, you gain "real world" experience, so if you decide to look for a new job, you have the qualifications (Real World Experience) to move right into the new job with little training, something employers look for.

QuoteIn order for one to start at the bottom one has to know where this bottom is at.   For example, let's say one wants and desires to be a programmer?   To achieve this position, how does one do this?   Where is the bottom in the hierarchy?   Imagine we have a hierarchical chart.   What are the levels that one must achieve to do this and what are specific and concrete steps that one must do to achieve these levels?

This is Taxed area of expertise, but to briefly answer, programming is wide open, from corporate, to freelance.
There really isn't a qualification in thois arena, since many kids today come out of high school with an undestanding of programming.

QuoteDoes one go to college and get an IT degree with an emphasis in Software Development and slide into a job just like that or is there more one must do?   What is the criteria that one must satisfy to become a programmer and how does one achieve this criteria?   

What are the specific, absolute, correct, detailed instructions that one must do to achieve a programmer position in any company whatsoever?   
I'd suggest a tech school. Cheaper, and you'll be done in short, possibly less than two years if you really apply yourself.
But I would first find out who's hiring, explain your passion for learning their trade, tell them that you've done the research and found they were the business you found most appealing, and that you're willing to do whatever it takes to get the job.

QuoteI've been told to go out into the real world?   What does this mean exactly in specific and concrete detail?   Do you mean American society?  Do you mean I must socialize with other people?   
In short. Yes. As I stated above, go out and ask employers what it takes to get hired. Show enthusiasm, make them aware you want to work fore them, that you do not move around much and want to be stable.

QuoteAre children literally supposed to be 100% obedient to their parents and obey them 100%?
No.

QuoteWhat does it mean to honor one's father and mother?
Don't bring same to the family.
   
QuoteWhat if a parent is a pedophile?
Get evidence and contact the DA.
QuoteWhat if a parent encourages a child to steal?
Same as above.

QuoteIs the child allowed to disobey?
Of course, if the order is immoral or illegal.
   
QuoteIf a parent says not to interrupt adults when they're speaking is this ironclad and absolute or are there exceptions?
  For example, what if a child's brother is choking?   Is the child allowed to interrupt adults when they're speaking in this type of situation?
What exactly is the absolute and correct way that one must go in concrete and specific detail?

Of course. This is where critical thinking kicks in. Lets say the house is on fire, or someone is breaking into this house with a gun, or someone is being murdered.

Orrrr, you're dying. What is more important to the adult, their meaningless conversation, or your life.
What do you suppose the answer is? Put yourself in their place, where you're talking to someone and someone comes to you and they are bleeding profusely and only have moments to live.

Do you keep talking and let them die, or do you stop and save their life?
 
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cubedemon

So, when a college student graduates like but not limited to a nursing student they need to apply for a janitorial or some other gopher type position and not obtain the job in their field right away? The nursing graduate should get a job as a janitor at a hospital.   Is this what you're saying?

Dori

Quote from: cubedemon on June 24, 2015, 07:57:54 PM
So, when a college student graduates like but not limited to a nursing student they need to apply for a janitorial or some other gopher type position and not obtain the job in their field right away? The nursing graduate should get a job as a janitor at a hospital.   Is this what you're saying?

No, a nursing degree has on the job training in a hospital.  They are usually placed in a job after they get their license.  They probably start out as a floor nurse, changing sheets, giving baths, dumping bed pans, until they learn the hospitals' routine of directly caring for the patients.  Also, it would depend if they specialized, like a surgical nurse, which would take even more training.

What kind of work are you interested in?  Computers? 
The danger to America is not Barack Obama but the citizens capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.

Solar

Quote from: cubedemon on June 24, 2015, 07:57:54 PM
So, when a college student graduates like but not limited to a nursing student they need to apply for a janitorial or some other gopher type position and not obtain the job in their field right away? The nursing graduate should get a job as a janitor at a hospital.   Is this what you're saying?
:lol:
No, you were'nt specific. :wink:
I was talking about someone with no experience, a trade school is a different story altogether.
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Solar

Quote from: Dori on June 24, 2015, 08:09:08 PM
No, a nursing degree has on the job training in a hospital.  They are usually placed in a job after they get their license.  They probably start out as a floor nurse, changing sheets, giving baths, dumping bed pans, until they learn the hospitals' routine of directly caring for the patients.  Also, it would depend if they specialized, like a surgical nurse, which would take even more training.

What kind of work are you interested in?  Computers?
Yeah, janitor. :biggrin:
But you're right, nursing is a learned skill.
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taxed

Quote from: cubedemon on June 24, 2015, 12:53:37 PM
Well she may have had Autism as well.  If I didn't think about the subtext, that would've been my answer as well.  I still have problems with literalism such as that.

It is one of the reasons I have problems with functioning.

If something is vague, I have issues.

Let's say I'm told to put a pot of water on the opposite side of the stove and the pot is on the (front, right) eye.  I'm looking this as I'm looking at a Cartesian plane.  Problem: which axis do I apply it to?  Is left opposite from right, back opposite from front or do I consider both axis's?  How do I apply opposite in this case since opposite is open to interpretation?

I'm 40 years old, and when someone tells me to turn on the front burner, I'll stare at it and try to figure out which one is the front.  This has been how I have thought and processed things since I was very little, and probably why I have literally, never learned a single thing in school.  Not one single thing.  One test question would prompt 100 more questions on the context or how it could be interpreted.

However,

I'm not autistic or have a disability.  I could easily claim that since I couldn't be shoe-horned into the public education system and flunked out of every grade after that one we did finger paints in.  You, and myself, and many, many others, think differently, and it isn't a disability.  You can post on a forum, then you're fine.  Cut out your lazy crap and teach yourself something.
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cubedemon

QuoteYou can post on a forum, then you're fine.  Cut out your lazy crap and teach yourself something.

1.  Cut out your lazy crap
2.  Teach myself something
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
.
.
.
n

and then what?   What are the absolute and correct steps one must do after these first two steps?  What are steps 3 - n?  You're saying nothing. 

Dori

Quote from: cubedemon on June 25, 2015, 06:40:50 AM
1.  Cut out your lazy crap
2.  Teach myself something
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
.
.
.
n

and then what?   What are the absolute and correct steps one must do after these first two steps?  What are steps 3 - n?  You're saying nothing.

Decide what you want to do, or be.  (What is your education?)
The danger to America is not Barack Obama but the citizens capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.

cubedemon

Now,

1.  Go to elementary school
2.  middle school
3.  high school
4.  Go to graduation ceremony (celebrate, everyone is happy, congrats cubedemon, parents say "we're so proud of you."
5.  Go to college and major in Information Technology with an emphasis in software development

6.  At college, I was able to get a job at software support.  Not due to any effort on my part but being at the right place at the right time. 

7.  Was able to obtain internship.

8.  Internship turned into a job.  Graduated College (Repeat #4)


9.  Started looking for work because I needed better pay.  Doesn't know what to type into search engine at first.   After a month of, one figures out some words to type in. 

10.  One looks at job postings even under entry level jobs.  All jobs require multi-skills with each skill requiring x amount of years of experience.  One looks constantly and is told to keep looking for a time.  Nothing happens

11.  Told not to tell my current employer I was looking for work by a loved one.  I was told that they would fire me if I told them.  Didn't know how to verify whether true or not.  Don't know whether this was true or not.

12.  Caught in a catch 22.  Didn't know what to do.  Didn't understand.    Some of the jobs wanted VB.Net knowledge with x amount of years of experience.  I had that.  Couldn't use it as it would require me to tell them about the job I had but in order to do that I would have to let the other job know that I was seeking another job.  Error!  Error! Error!  Contradictory standards.   Doesn't know what to do.  Resolution Unknown!

13.  Forced into mystery shopping in which one had to memorize the questions and then memorize the answers back.  Could not do so.  Forced to lie by making up answers due to impossibility of demands.  Knows what he is doing is wrong.  Tries to get out of it.

14.  Tries to apply to other jobs at Walmart like cashier, etc.  Tries to apply to be a busboy at Hotel.  Tries to apply at other places.  No one calls back.  Was advised to call back and they all said the same thing.  They all said they would call if one was needed.

15.   Tries to obtain assistance from others.  No one answers, says one is entitled to nothing.   Didn't understand how the maxim was true if one wasn't entitled to refuse to commit murder and to commit murder at the same time.  Proof by contradiction said this had to be false.   Realizes something is wrong.  Looks at what people say in their social context.  Realizes error in logic.

16.  Realizes one needed major help.   One goes to the Autism Center.  Gets a diagnosis of Aspergers Syndrome.  Could not afford to go their for assistance.  Now it's $200.00 per month. 

17.  Realizes one needed major assistance still and couldn't get it because one would have to have income to get it.   If one had income and a steady job then would one need assistance to do so? One goes to Voc rehab.  Took a while of prodding and poking to get them to do anything.  Sent to worktec.  Test one's ability to handle a job.  Wrote extensive report on me.  Last minute decides one  needed to go to the autism center which one couldn't afford.

18.  Realizes that w/o major assistance one can't work and one can't receive assistance w/o others providing it.

19.  Realizes that won't happen due to national beliefs like personal responsibility, self-reliance, independence, etc.

20.  Had 2 other blogs before this current 1.

21.  Realized one had to challenge American values, conservatives, personal responsibility advocates since they guard the doors and have the keys.

22.  Attempted to develop my critical thinking and logical skills more.

23.  Eventually stumbled upon necessary vs. sufficient condition.  Realized that just because x was necessary doesn't mean it was sufficient.  A degree may be necessary but may be insufficient.  Realized and understood one of the ways thinking was wrong.  Thought one earned a job by the degree.  Realized one was wrong and it was insufficient.  More requirements were needed to be satisfied.  Can't satisfy them w/o major assistance and questions answered.

24.  Due to country's values and expectations and social parameters.  Won't get it from others.  Entitled to nothing.  Realizes something else.

25.  Realizes why loved ones think I'm more functional and realizes what one must do.  Like Orr in the book Catch 22 one must crash the metaphorical airplane.  https://whyifailedinamerica1.wordpress.com/2015/06/15/the-uncanny-valley/

26.  Eventually writes fanfiction that demonstrates my issues w society, where things can go wrong, and how good intentions and untreated mental illness is the road to hell.  Needs major revisions.  first time writer. no experience.  has a lot to learn

https://cubeangel.wordpress.com/2015/02/27/backdrop-to-my-tampa-fan-fiction/
https://cubeangel.wordpress.com/2014/08/03/the-healing-of-jack-patrick/
https://cubeangel.wordpress.com/2014/10/20/celeste-prices-sister/

27.  Will write autobiography of one's life to give backdrop for others and their autistic children to give an account of what went right and what went wrong  For other parents in the distant future and near future.

kroz

I would think that Aspergers Syndrome would almost rule out working for other people.

Self employment would seem like the best option.  Anything you could do by yourself would eliminate the hazards of conflict and sudden unemployment.

What do you enjoy doing?  Is it marketable?

Dori

Quote from: cubedemon on June 25, 2015, 08:17:09 AM
27.  Will write autobiography of one's life to give backdrop for others and their autistic children to give an account of what went right and what went wrong  For other parents in the distant future and near future.

^I think that's a great idea.  Unfortunately, there isn't enough information/help for people like yourself who want to work, but don't quite fit into the current system.  Hang in there, as long as you keep trying and don't get too discouraged, you will find something out there that fits you.  However, keep busy, like the autobiography.   

It seems to me there is a real need for those with spectrum issues to have some kind of job placement agency. 

Have you developed any software on your own?  It seems like with the popularity of gaming, that might be an area you might like.  Even better, design games for kids with autism.  I know one young boy who is in the middle of the spectrum, but he seems to be unbeatable on those games.
The danger to America is not Barack Obama but the citizens capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.

Dori

Cubedemon

Just spoke with someone who recommended that you look for server and network administration for an internet provider.  There are probably a lot of small to medium size companies in your area.  He said that there doesn't seem to be enough people coming in that can do that kind of work. 

He also mentioned writing technical papers.
The danger to America is not Barack Obama but the citizens capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.