I wish to talk about the concept of gratitude.   I think in some cases it is not a virtue but not a vice.  Of course, we should be appreciative of what we have and what others did do for us but here is where I have an issue.  My issue with gratitude and being grateful is when someone has to be in a bad state for one to be grateful.  In other words, my morality and virtue depends upon someone's suffering.   I must appreciate things I do have because others lack those things including clean drinking water.  That means others must lack water for me to appreciate my having clean drinking water.  In other words, for me to be moral which includes appreciation and gratitude others must be scapegoats. 

How can one be grateful for anything if others must be scapegoats for one to have this gratitude?

Quote from: alienhand on February 24, 2019, 09:37:09 PM
I wish to talk about the concept of gratitude.   I think in some cases it is not a virtue but not a vice.  Of course, we should be appreciative of what we have and what others did do for us but here is where I have an issue.  My issue with gratitude and being grateful is when someone has to be in a bad state for one to be grateful.  In other words, my morality and virtue depends upon someone's suffering.   I must appreciate things I do have because others lack those things including clean drinking water.  That means others must lack water for me to appreciate my having clean drinking water.  In other words, for me to be moral which includes appreciation and gratitude others must be scapegoats. 

How can one be grateful for anything if others must be scapegoats for one to have this gratitude?

Boy, are you off base on this thought process. Thinking being grateful automatically means someone else is being deprived is, quite frankly, delusional. Gratitude, in my view, is recognizing how God has blessed us in so many ways. It has nothing to do with someone else and their condition.

Quote from: supsalemgr on February 25, 2019, 04:27:59 AM
Boy, are you off base on this thought process. Thinking being grateful automatically means someone else is being deprived is, quite frankly, delusional. Gratitude, in my view, is recognizing how God has blessed us in so many ways. It has nothing to do with someone else and their condition.

You had to be polite, didn't you...
I'm simply grateful for the chance at life, including all the hurdles that came at me, that made me who and what I am today.

Quote from: Solar on February 25, 2019, 05:28:53 AM


You had to be polite, didn't you...
I'm simply grateful for the chance at life, including all the hurdles that came at me, that made me who and what I am today.

It was not easy!

Quote from: supsalemgr on February 25, 2019, 07:18:04 AM
It was not easy!

Quote from: supsalemgr on February 25, 2019, 04:27:59 AM
Boy, are you off base on this thought process. Thinking being grateful automatically means someone else is being deprived is, quite frankly, delusional. Gratitude, in my view, is recognizing how God has blessed us in so many ways. It has nothing to do with someone else and their condition.

I never said this.

What I said was others say that one must be grateful for what one has b/c others don't have these things.   Be grateful that you can drink water out of the faucet b/c others in Africa don't have clean drinking water.  You've never heard this or something like it growing up said to you or said by parents and other adults to children? 

When one thinks this kind of message through what it implies is that others must lack and others must suffer for another set of others to be moral and righteous.  It isn't me who believes this.  It is others who believe this by their own words. 

Quote from: alienhand on February 25, 2019, 07:45:18 PM
I never said this.

What I said was others say that one must be grateful for what one has b/c others don't have these things.   Be grateful that you can drink water out of the faucet b/c others in Africa don't have clean drinking water.  You've never heard this or something like it growing up said to you or said by parents and other adults to children? 

When one thinks this kind of message through what it implies is that others must lack and others must suffer for another set of others to be moral and righteous.  It isn't me who believes this.  It is others who believe this by their own words.

BUT, if we install a water system that delivers clean water here, how does that make the water dirty there? In others words it is not the improvements made here that is causing the suffering there. What I see in your posts are the classic socialist lines. Nobody should have anything unless we all can have it. That justifies taking away from one group while claiming to level the playing field. Trouble there, the playing field are never leveled and the socialist keep taking away.

Quote from: alienhand on February 25, 2019, 07:45:18 PM
I never said this.

What I said was others say that one must be grateful for what one has b/c others don't have these things.   Be grateful that you can drink water out of the faucet b/c others in Africa don't have clean drinking water.  You've never heard this or something like it growing up said to you or said by parents and other adults to children? 

When one thinks this kind of message through what it implies is that others must lack and others must suffer for another set of others to be moral and righteous.  It isn't me who believes this.  It is others who believe this by their own words.

I don't care who said what. If one chooses to buy into that BS, go for it. To use the clean water example think of it as we here in the US made a choice to have clean water. That has nothing to do with the water conditions n Africa.

Quote from: s3779m on February 26, 2019, 03:37:46 AM
BUT, if we install a water system that delivers clean water here, how does that make the water dirty there? In others words it is not the improvements made here that is causing the suffering there. What I see in your posts are the classic socialist lines. Nobody should have anything unless we all can have it. That justifies taking away from one group while claiming to level the playing field. Trouble there, the playing field are never leveled and the socialist keep taking away.

I never said anything of what you are claiming I have said.  Have you never heard anyone tell you as an adult teen, or child to be grateful for what you have because others are not as fortunate as you or something along these lines? 

Quote from: alienhand on February 26, 2019, 08:13:18 AM
I never said anything of what you are claiming I have said.  Have you never heard anyone tell you as an adult teen, or child to be grateful for what you have because others are not as fortunate as you or something along these lines?

I said "What I see in your posts are the classic socialist lines" not that you said it. As far as the rest of your question, one does talk to a child differently than to an adult.

Quote from: alienhand on February 24, 2019, 09:37:09 PM
I wish to talk about the concept of gratitude.   I think in some cases it is not a virtue but not a vice.  Of course, we should be appreciative of what we have and what others did do for us but here is where I have an issue.  My issue with gratitude and being grateful is when someone has to be in a bad state for one to be grateful.  In other words, my morality and virtue depends upon someone's suffering.   I must appreciate things I do have because others lack those things including clean drinking water.  That means others must lack water for me to appreciate my having clean drinking water.  In other words, for me to be moral which includes appreciation and gratitude others must be scapegoats. 

How can one be grateful for anything if others must be scapegoats for one to have this gratitude?

They don't.  I have no idea what you're talking about.

Quote from: taxed on February 26, 2019, 04:57:16 PM
They don't.  I have no idea what you're talking about.

That ok, he a liberal living off our tax dollars.

Quote from: s3779m on February 26, 2019, 03:00:33 PM
I said "What I see in your posts are the classic socialist lines" not that you said it. As far as the rest of your question, one does talk to a child differently than to an adult.

What I said and asking about has nothing to do with socialism or politics at all but social and moral.  Have you never been told growing up or as an adult that one must appreciate the food you have b/c others in Africa lacked or you have it good in America compared to other people in other places around the world?  Gratitude is a moral virtue correct or it is considered that, yes?   How can gratitude be a moral virtue if this virtue is dependent upon others being scapegoats?  Gratitude is questionable if others have to suffer for you to be grateful.  Others must lack food in other places for one to appreciate and be grateful for the food one has.   This is the message I hear constantly in our society. 

Quote from: alienhand on February 26, 2019, 08:29:48 PM


What I said and asking about has nothing to do with socialism or politics at all but social and moral.  Have you never been told growing up or as an adult that one must appreciate the food you have b/c others in Africa lacked or you have it good in America compared to other people in other places around the world?  Gratitude is a moral virtue correct or it is considered that, yes?   How can gratitude be a moral virtue if this virtue is dependent upon others being scapegoats?  Gratitude is questionable if others have to suffer for you to be grateful.  Others must lack food in other places for one to appreciate and be grateful for the food one has.   This is the message I hear constantly in our society.

Well then, how about you stop being grateful for anything since you seem to have a problem with both that and comprehending other's posts, and leave being grateful to those of us who do not have a problem with it. I grew up on a farm and still work on one and have never seen as much bull shit as what is in your posts.

Quote from: s3779m on February 27, 2019, 02:58:57 AM
Well then, how about you stop being grateful for anything since you seem to have a problem with both that and comprehending other's posts, and leave being grateful to those of us who do not have a problem with it. I grew up on a farm and still work on one and have never seen as much bull shit as what is in your posts.

Well, I'm not against all forms of gratitude.  As I said, I do think one should be grateful for what one has and for what others do for you.  But the type of gratitude I'm against is the one in which scapegoats are required.   
And, no it's not bullshit.  Some forms of gratitude require scapegoats and sacrificial lambs