snip~
The wreck of a Nazi submarine sunk during World War II has been found off the coast of North Carolina, maritime authorities announced Tuesday. U-boat 576 was found just 240 yards from another wreck: the American freight ship, Bluefields, which it torpedoed in the Battle of the Atlantic in 1942. The twin wrecks were found just 30 miles off the North Carolina coast, the National Oceanic and Atmosphere Administration said.

more @
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/wreck-nazi-u-boat-576-u-s-freighter-found-north-n231301

A sonar image of the wreck of U-576, which has been found just 30 miles off the North Carolina coast.

Quote from: walkstall on October 22, 2014, 07:22:10 AM


snip~
The wreck of a Nazi submarine sunk during World War II has been found off the coast of North Carolina, maritime authorities announced Tuesday. U-boat 576 was found just 240 yards from another wreck: the American freight ship, Bluefields, which it torpedoed in the Battle of the Atlantic in 1942. The twin wrecks were found just 30 miles off the North Carolina coast, the National Oceanic and Atmosphere Administration said.

more @
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/wreck-nazi-u-boat-576-u-s-freighter-found-north-n231301

A sonar image of the wreck of U-576, which has been found just 30 miles off the North Carolina coast.

Cool. Looks to be in remarkably intact condition!

I always love how these journalistic pukes dive for that "Nazi" tag every time they can. "Wreck of Nazi U-Boat 576," as if the submarine has political leanings. The Kriegsmarine was certainly the least politicized branch of the German military during the Nazi years, but in any case, I always marvel at the willingness of talking head types to characterize pieces of machinery as "Nazi."

QuoteGermany's foreign ministry said in a statement to the NOAA that the wreck "should, if possible, remain at their site and location to allow the dead to rest in peace.

Uh, no!!! Lets pull it up and see whats inside, then send the remains back to the families they left behind.
Could it be, Germany is hiding a dirty little secret? We won't know till we bring it top the surface.

Quote from: Solar on October 22, 2014, 08:30:44 AM
Uh, no!!! Lets pull it up and see whats inside, then send the remains back to the families they left behind.
Could it be, Germany is hiding a dirty little secret? We won't know till we bring it top the surface.

Leaving sunken warships in place to be graves of those KIA is pretty common - if not normal - practice. German U-boats had had an utter field day off the US coast earlier in 1942, so this boat was probably just on ordinary war patrol and sunk as a consequence of the US finally changing over to escorted convoys.

Quote from: SVPete on October 22, 2014, 09:33:55 AM
Leaving sunken warships in place to be graves of those KIA is pretty common - if not normal - practice. German U-boats had had an utter field day off the US coast earlier in 1942, so this boat was probably just on ordinary war patrol and sunk as a consequence of the US finally changing over to escorted convoys.

Yeah. Think USS Arizona, with the remains of 1,177 sailors still entombed. U-576 was indeed just one of many plying the eastern seaboard in 1942.

IIRC, some of the waters off the Pacific island of Truk are almost like a warships' and merchant ships' graveyard. Truk was a large Japanese base until USN carrier task forces attacked, sinking many warships and merchant ships. They are being left there, with the remains of of men killed, as graveyards.

Looking over U576's Wikipedia article, she was sunk on her second patrol in the Germans' operations off the US East Coast ("Drumbeat"), and had sunk two ships in her first patrol off the US. Her first patrol was probably before the US woke up to the serious losses when merchant ships were still allowed to sail individually, unconvoyed and unescorted. The ship she sunk before herself being sunk was in convoy, and the presence of the Kingfishers that started her end indicates an escort capable of carrying and launching seaplanes.

Quote from: TboneAgain on October 22, 2014, 07:45:37 AM
Cool. Looks to be in remarkably intact condition!

I always love how these journalistic pukes dive for that "Nazi" tag every time they can. "Wreck of Nazi U-Boat 576," as if the submarine has political leanings. The Kriegsmarine was certainly the least politicized branch of the German military during the Nazi years, but in any case, I always marvel at the willingness of talking head types to characterize pieces of machinery as "Nazi."

To the liberals the war is still going on 

It's pretty funny Karl Dönitz knew they would fail and said something to the effect of "well, let us at least try our best..." upon hearing the news of the war, he wasn't even part of the inner circle of Hitler at that time. Of course he later became the Fuhrer. He was expecting at least 5 more years of military buildup and knew the kriegsmarine would be ineffective due to lack of numbers/wolfpacks.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHnyQXyuTGY

Quote from: SVPete on October 22, 2014, 09:33:55 AM
Leaving sunken warships in place to be graves of those KIA is pretty common - if not normal - practice. German U-boats had had an utter field day off the US coast earlier in 1942, so this boat was probably just on ordinary war patrol and sunk as a consequence of the US finally changing over to escorted convoys.

Sure, that's a nice sentiment, but don't kid yourself, no one follows the rules, not even us.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/cia-soviet-submarine-sunken/2010/02/13/id/349826/

Or this, where a nation raises their own dead. Keep in mind, there was a time when a ship was untouchable, so it became a graveyard in it's own rite.
The only way to insure they remain untouched, is to pass a worldwide ban on all salvage of any kind.

QuoteSeoul, South Korea (CNN) -- South Korea raised a naval ship from the floor of the Yellow Sea that sank under mysterious circumstances last month, Korea's Yonhap news agency reported Thursday.
The bodies of at least 25 of the 45 missing sailors believed to be in the hull of the navy corvette Cheonan were found in the hours after it was raised, Yonhap reported.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/04/15/south.korea.ship/index.html

Quote from: Solar on October 24, 2014, 06:24:54 AM
Sure, that's a nice sentiment, but don't kid yourself, no one follows the rules, not even us.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/cia-soviet-submarine-sunken/2010/02/13/id/349826/

As I posted above,

QuoteLooking over U576's Wikipedia article, she was sunk on her second patrol in the Germans' operations off the US East Coast ("Drumbeat"), and had sunk two ships in her first patrol off the US. Her first patrol was probably before the US woke up to the serious losses when merchant ships were still allowed to sail individually, unconvoyed and unescorted. The ship she sunk before herself being sunk was in convoy, and the presence of the Kingfishers that started her end indicates an escort capable of carrying and launching seaplanes.

I don't see U576 as having been on any sort of special mission. She would not have risked such a mission by attacking the convoy which sunk her.

U576 was a Type VIIC U-Boat, nothing particularly special at the time, produced in large numbers. She has no technological secrets - strong points or weaknesses - that we would need to know of now, >70 years later.

Several Type VIIC U-Boats were captured at the end of the war. There is a Type VIIC U-Boat in a museum in Chicago. So there is no archaeological interest in U576.

There is simply no significant reason to expend the considerable $$ and effort that would be necessary to raise U576.

Quote from: SVPete on October 24, 2014, 06:35:48 AM
As I posted above,

I don't see U576 as having been on any sort of special mission. She would not have risked such a mission by attacking the convoy which sunk her.

U576 was a Type VIIC U-Boat, nothing particularly special at the time, produced in large numbers. She has no technological secrets - strong points or weaknesses - that we would need to know of now, >70 years later.

Several Type VIIC U-Boats were captured at the end of the war. There is a Type VIIC U-Boat in a museum in Chicago. So there is no archaeological interest in U576.

There is simply no significant reason to expend the considerable $$ and effort that would be necessary to raise U576.

Irrelevant regardless, the point is, no nation honors the fallen, not even ours.
And Wiki is a lousy source for anything but propaganda.  We only know what the powers that be, want us to know, it's what we don't know that drives one to seek answers to question not yet asked.

I'd guarantee this ship does not go untouched.

Solar, I only referred to Wikipedia for convenience, but there's no conspiracy or cover-up there. U576's history can be found easily elsewhere. Hitler's "Drumbeat" (Paukenschlag) U-boat campaign is well-known history. The initially foolishly ineffective US response to U-boats in early 1942 is well-known history. And "Drumbeat" was U576's last two patrols. Type VIIC U-boats are no mystery.

Other than reflexive, almost conspiracy-theory-grade, assumption of a decades-long cover-up, where's the reason to raise a very ordinary U-Boat from its grave at the bottom of the Atlantic?

On another sub-topic, that Type VIIC U-boats were used of the US East Coast evidences how unready the U-boat force was. Type VIICs' range made for very brief patrols on station. The Type IX wasn't wonderful, but it had much better range. Just fewer numbers.

Quote from: SVPete on October 24, 2014, 12:28:41 PM
Solar, I only referred to Wikipedia for convenience, but there's no conspiracy or cover-up there. U576's history can be found easily elsewhere. Hitler's "Drumbeat" (Paukenschlag) U-boat campaign is well-known history. The initially foolishly ineffective US response to U-boats in early 1942 is well-known history. And "Drumbeat" was U576's last two patrols. Type VIIC U-boats are no mystery.

Other than reflexive, almost conspiracy-theory-grade, assumption of a decades-long cover-up, where's the reason to raise a very ordinary U-Boat from its grave at the bottom of the Atlantic?

On another sub-topic, that Type VIIC U-boats were used of the US East Coast evidences how unready the U-boat force was. Type VIICs' range made for very brief patrols on station. The Type IX wasn't wonderful, but it had much better range. Just fewer numbers.

Won't know for certain till we look, and you can be certain, we will enter the ship, that's basic human nature of curiosity..

But you're probably right, assuming we honor Germany's request.

QuoteThe German Foreign Office told NOAA that it's not interested in recovering the remains but asked the U.S. to view the wreck as a war grave. "As such, they are under special protection and should, if possible, remain at their site and location to allow the dead to rest in peace," the foreign office said in a statement provided by NOAA.

Quote from: Solar on October 24, 2014, 06:45:18 AM
Irrelevant regardless, the point is, no nation honors the fallen, not even ours.
And Wiki is a lousy source for anything but propaganda.  We only know what the powers that be, want us to know, it's what we don't know that drives one to seek answers to question not yet asked.

I'd guarantee this ship does not go untouched.

Not sure why you beat on Wikipedia so hard. It is indisputable fact that Wikepedia is the best all-around online source for general encyclopedic information. Actually, there's nothing else even close. Yes, there are Wikipedia "editors" who lean to the left, but there are also plenty who lean to the right. (I'm one of those, and have been for years.) Pissing on the site this way is like saying you hate Wrigley Field because leftists and White Sox fans sometimes sit in some of the seats.

Quote from: TboneAgain on October 24, 2014, 04:52:52 PM
Not sure why you beat on Wikipedia so hard. It is indisputable fact that Wikepedia is the best all-around online source for general encyclopedic information. Actually, there's nothing else even close. Yes, there are Wikipedia "editors" who lean to the left, but there are also plenty who lean to the right. (I'm one of those, and have been for years.) Pissing on the site this way is like saying you hate Wrigley Field because leftists and White Sox fans sometimes sit in some of the seats.

Orr, you could simply click on a good encyclopedia site and get the real info, not second hand.
But to think Wiki is a good source for anything is fooling ones self.
Sure, I use it for weights and measure, that sort off thing, but I'd never bet my life on any of it's information.
Check these out.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/wikipedia-losing-contributors-fatal-flaw-the-community-editors/54144

http://www.dailypundit.com/?p=27261

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia