Author Topic: Shocking Facts about Thomas Jefferson  (Read 10297 times)

Trip

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Re: Shocking Facts about Thomas Jefferson
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2013, 09:09:19 AM »
Nice try, Trip. However, much to your dismay, I'm sure, the DOI, is not Law. The fact some principles as laid out within the DOI became law, does not make the DOI binding on any living soul as law.
The DOI is not considered to be the Law of The Land. Surely, if it had been considered so by the Founders, is it not reasonable to believe they would have stated so with the Constitution itself?

I see no mention of the DOI as being considered the Law of The Land. Wishing it so does not make it so.

Guess what,  the U.S. Constitution is not statory law either. None of it is able to be applied as statute.   

In point of fact, the DOI and Constitution are on excatly the same footing - the Organic law of this country. 

In point of fact, the principle and philosophy of the DOI is not just incorporated into the Constitution, but the very cornerstone of the Constitution itself. It's why there are checks and balances. It is why the States are sovereign.  It is why there's a Bill of Rights, with that Bill itself even being unnecessary for those rights to be observed, given the limits on government.

As such,  in recognizing the Constitution to be the Law of the land, one is also recognizing the DOI to be the law of the land.   

There's actually one way the DOI has a foot up on the Constitution.  While the Constitution may one day be thoroughly abandoned, and some other form of government put in its place,  the principles of the Declaration of Independence will still endure, as they are not merely the form of government, but its very principle. 

To no surprise, the DOI itself clearly states the purpose of every form of government.

"Nice try", ya'self.

And "Welcome to America".

Offline Shooterman

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Re: Shocking Facts about Thomas Jefferson
« Reply #46 on: August 09, 2013, 09:28:23 AM »
I truly believe, Trip, you would argue with George Mason himself if he was re-incarnated.
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Trip

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Re: Shocking Facts about Thomas Jefferson
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2013, 10:43:19 AM »
I truly believe, Trip, you would argue with George Mason himself if he was re-incarnated.

And I truly believe, Shooter,  you would embrace the Devil himself if he gave you a simple enough explanation for what you see before you, provided it didn't involve you doing any work, or assuming any responsibility.

I'm not saying you're evil, nor am I saying you're stupid. I am saying you're intellectually lazy and you've been truly negligent in understanding the terms and history of this, your country, over your entire life.   

I don't hesitate at all in saying, at this point, you should truly be ashamed.   I myself have felt that shame, so you certainly are not above it.

But you're not alone in that, and therein lies our problem. 

You're not beyond salvation, and neither are we as a whole,  but it will take work.

What you and I  argue about here is not some minor thing; it is the singular  foundational principle of this country, and no other country in the history of mankind.   

It should be observed, in your position on this issue, that you actually stand shoulder to shoulder with  Marxist "Libs"  arguing the same corruption you do, in order to overturn this country and our freedoms.   

Yet I've told them the same thing that I tell you now. Nowhere does the Declaration of Independence, nor the Constitution itself, involve any sort of reference to equality of ability and skill, much less equality of outcome,     

You don't need to just read the limited text of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution to know this.   You can turn to the 85 lengthy Federalist papers as well. But don't stop there! It's not as if the ideas of this country's principles were plucked out of thin air.  There are numerous political philosophers that preceded the application of ink to these Parchments, going back to Ancient Rome.  Yet no other country established its very existence upon these principles.

While you reference George Mason, he actually does not stand with you either.     

None of this nation's founders, not even ONCE, ever  made the claim that Jefferson corrupted Mason's words, and in fact they all wrote at length to the contrary.  I'm quite certain they were paying far better attention then, than you are now.

And it's not as if the evidence that Pittman is wrong  involves some great, convoluted proof either.   There's a reason that credible constitutional authorities don't reference Pittman at all.
 
It's time for you to wake up.  You're too damn weathered to be this damn ignorant.  Neither the Devil nor Robert Carter Pittman bear any salvation for you.   

But then, again, you're not alone in this problematic condition, so please don't take my comments personally.



Offline Shooterman

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Re: Shocking Facts about Thomas Jefferson
« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2013, 11:22:15 AM »
We all fall far short of the glory of Trip. Hallelujah!
There's no ticks like Polyticks-bloodsuckers all Davy Crockett 1786-1836

Yankees are like castor oil. Even a small dose is bad.
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Trip

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Re: Shocking Facts about Thomas Jefferson
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2013, 11:51:29 AM »
We all fall far short of the glory of Trip. Hallelujah!

You're the one flying your ego ahead of fact.

But then you pulled this same crap the last time we had this discussion too. However you are a great foil to demonstrate why we have such a problem unifying to restore this country.




Offline Shooterman

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Re: Shocking Facts about Thomas Jefferson
« Reply #50 on: August 09, 2013, 11:56:08 AM »
You're the one flying your ego ahead of fact.

But then you pulled this same crap the last time we had this discussion too. However you are a great foil to demonstrate why we have such a problem unifying to restore this country.

Have a good day, Trip.
There's no ticks like Polyticks-bloodsuckers all Davy Crockett 1786-1836

Yankees are like castor oil. Even a small dose is bad.
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Trip

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Re: Shocking Facts about Thomas Jefferson
« Reply #51 on: August 09, 2013, 11:58:04 AM »

Offline kopema

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Re: Shocking Facts about Thomas Jefferson
« Reply #52 on: September 17, 2013, 02:41:35 PM »
What is the bizarre fascination liberals have with lists anyway?

Everything is a Cosmo article these days:  "Eighteen Tricks To Please Your Lover," "Twelve Amazing Gwennyth Hairdo Tips," "Forty Seven Ways The Founding Fathers Were All Communists...."

Why can't airheads figure out just ONE way to shut the Hell up?
‘‘It is not the function of our government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.’’

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Offline daidalos

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Re: Shocking Facts about Thomas Jefferson
« Reply #53 on: September 17, 2013, 03:21:41 PM »
Hey guys. First time poster and history geek here.

I was asked to write an essay on any president for my college American History class. I chose one of my favorite presidents -- Thomas Jefferson -- and centered it on the various contradictions that continue to mar his legacy to this day: http://socyberty.com/history/six-shocking-facts-about-thomas-jefferson/

I wanted to see what you guys think. Were you already aware of these facts before reading the article? Do you think anything should be changed/added?  Do you find these to be truly shocking facts about Thomas Jefferson?

I still have a couple of days before this is due.

Thanks.
To start with Jefferson was not the sole author of the Declaration of Independence contrary to popular myth he was just one of a committee which hammered that document out.
One of every five Americans you meet has a mental illness of some sort. Many, many, of our veteran's suffer from mental illness like PTSD now also. Help if ya can. :) http://www.projectsemicolon.org/share-your-story.html
And no you won't find my "story" there. They don't allow science fiction. :)

Online Solar

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Re: Shocking Facts about Thomas Jefferson
« Reply #54 on: September 17, 2013, 06:04:37 PM »
What is the bizarre fascination liberals have with lists anyway?

Everything is a Cosmo article these days:  "Eighteen Tricks To Please Your Lover," "Twelve Amazing Gwennyth Hairdo Tips," "Forty Seven Ways The Founding Fathers Were All Communists...."

Why can't airheads figure out just ONE way to shut the Hell up?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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#WWG1WGA

Offline daidalos

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Re: Shocking Facts about Thomas Jefferson
« Reply #55 on: September 17, 2013, 08:25:35 PM »
Guess what,  the U.S. Constitution is not statory law either. None of it is able to be applied as statute.   

In point of fact, the DOI and Constitution are on excatly the same footing - the Organic law of this country. 

In point of fact, the principle and philosophy of the DOI is not just incorporated into the Constitution, but the very cornerstone of the Constitution itself. It's why there are checks and balances. It is why the States are sovereign.  It is why there's a Bill of Rights, with that Bill itself even being unnecessary for those rights to be observed, given the limits on government.

As such,  in recognizing the Constitution to be the Law of the land, one is also recognizing the DOI to be the law of the land.   

There's actually one way the DOI has a foot up on the Constitution.  While the Constitution may one day be thoroughly abandoned, and some other form of government put in its place,  the principles of the Declaration of Independence will still endure, as they are not merely the form of government, but its very principle. 

To no surprise, the DOI itself clearly states the purpose of every form of government.

"Nice try", ya'self.

And "Welcome to America".

Wrong again Trip.

The Constitution is in fact a statutory document. It's the highest statutory document in the United States.

Unlike the Declaration of Independence which was and is in fact nothing more than a letter to King George of England informing him of the Colonies intent and reasons for, separation from England as a nation state.

In fact Article six, clause two, of the Constitution itself.

States quite clearly that is is the supreme law of the United States, and thus it is a statutory document.


Quote
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.
.


So lets see, who's right about whether the Constitution is law or not within the United States.

The Constitution itself when it states that it is the Supreme law in the United States?

Or

Trip when he says it is not?

Hmmm, I think I'll believe what the Constitution has to say about the Constitution rather than what trip has to say about it.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 08:45:15 PM by daidalos »
One of every five Americans you meet has a mental illness of some sort. Many, many, of our veteran's suffer from mental illness like PTSD now also. Help if ya can. :) http://www.projectsemicolon.org/share-your-story.html
And no you won't find my "story" there. They don't allow science fiction. :)

Offline LibDave

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Re: Shocking Facts about Thomas Jefferson
« Reply #56 on: October 16, 2013, 06:38:37 PM »
First of all, don't speak ill of the dead.  It's an unfair argument, though in this instance you still fell well short of your adversary.  If you are to carry out a single person spar against the character of the late honorable Thomas Jefferson, at the least you owe him disclaimers of opinion, and verification of facts must be exhaustive.  It is your duty as an author where no defense of character can be expected of your target to take it upon yourself to conduct all due defense as your own.  This entails an honest separation of bias directly opposing your preconceived objective (which caused you allowance to pick the subject from the outset).

You clearly delineate 6 major "shocking" attacks on the character of the honorable Thomas Jefferson, offering only the the weakest of feigned remonstration.  I will attribute this to weakness of mind or torpidity providing you benefit of the doubt as to the dereliction of your fiduciary responsibilities.

Offline norwegen

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Re: Shocking Facts about Thomas Jefferson
« Reply #57 on: November 01, 2013, 12:21:04 PM »
Unlike the Declaration of Independence which was and is in fact nothing more than a letter to King George of England informing him of the Colonies intent and reasons for, separation from England as a nation state.
Greetings, daidalos.

The Declaration of Independence is more than a letter, notice, or statement of intent.  It's actually a binding document, adopted by the Second Continental Congress in 1776.

But as to Jefferson, he was aces.  He never really had a vision for specialization or for laissez-faire economics, believing that "when millions of free people at once turn their thoughts from trade, and the means of acquiring wealth, to agriculture and frugality, it must cause a most sensible alteration in the state," but as a public leader, he was as liberating as they come.

Though only the third president, he actually reduced the size of government.  During his administration, taxes were repealed, the bureaucracy was cut, and even the military was decreased in size (and we were still able to defeat the Barbary Pirates).  Washington and Adams were Federalists and undertook to expand the government, however slightly by today's measures, but by the end of Jefferson's presidency, the only exposure most Americans had to the federal government was mail delivery.  (Or maybe Washington was unaffiliated, I'm not sure, but certainly he allied more with the Federalists than he did with the Republicans.)

For all his flaws, Jefferson appreciated the sovereignty and happiness of his peers, which made for superb leadership.  If I may say, he was, perhaps, our best president.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Shocking Facts about Thomas Jefferson
« Reply #58 on: January 07, 2014, 04:57:11 AM »
Brilliant man. Flawed man. Very different time.
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Offline Stone Cold Conservative

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Re: Shocking Facts about Thomas Jefferson
« Reply #59 on: January 14, 2014, 07:28:22 PM »
That's a lot of big words there gentlemen.  I will try to keep up, but please be mindful I dropped out in the tenth grade.

Thomas Jefferson was the man dog.  He came down there with his pen and he whooped the King of England's ass!  He and the whole crew at Independence Hall, fighting for a better tomorrow, against the great tyrants of the Old World.  What?  You can bemoan the fact that he killed Indians, yeah because the British loved them didn't they?  What?  You can chide the fact that he owned slaves, yeah because King George and his crew they all hated slavery!  What?

The bottom line is that if it weren't for the Jeffersons, if it weren't for the Washingtons, if it weren't for the Adamses or the Hamiltonians there would've been no America.  And with no America there would've been no movement towards the ending of slavery in our Constitution, a fact you can bank on Jack.  So the next time you are hanging with a black friend of yours enjoying a nice Steveweiser, you might want to remember that men like Jefferson paved the way to a better tomorrow!

And that's the bottom line, cos Stone Cold said so!

 

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