Author Topic: Japan North Korea talks re kidnaping and comfort women.  (Read 3559 times)

Offline Akubra

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Japan North Korea talks re kidnaping and comfort women.
« on: June 15, 2014, 12:51:01 AM »
Japan and North Korea to hold talks..

Quote
North Korea admitted in 2002 that it had kidnapped 13 Japanese citizens to train its spies in Japanese language and customs. The subject is highly charged in Japan, where there are suspicions that dozens or perhaps even hundreds of others were taken.

Citing Japanese government sources, Kyodo said both sides were arranging to hold a new round of talks soon, when Pyongyang is expected to set up a special panel to reinvestigate the abductions.

Tokyo hopes Pyongyang will submit a first report on its new probe within the next few months, the news agency said.


http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/japan-north-korea-to-hold-talks-after-kidnaping-breakthrough-report-541697?curl=1402817935


Meanwhile on another site they are telling a slightly different story.

Quote
This will be the first such high-level meeting between the two countries since talks were stalled in late 2012 following a North Korean long-range missile test.

“Our goal is to properly settle outstanding issues of both sides,” said Ryu Song Il, a North Korean official in charge of Japanese affairs at the North Korean foreign ministry. “I believe it is important that relations between the two countries can be improved soon.”

This opinion was not completely endorsed by So Se Pyong, North Korea’s ambassador to the United Nations in Geneva.

“From Japan they just said that the abduction case is not solved yet, but we said that case is fully solved, there is not any problem for that,” he said.

“Instead, we are asking Japan to compensate (for) their crimes, such as the 8.4 million people abducted into Japan during the colonial time and not only that but also some of the Comfort Women case also should be solved.”
http://www.nknews.org/2014/03/north-seeks-comfort-women-compensation-in-japan-talks/

It will be interesting to see how this pans out since North Korea and Japan are never the best of friends...

I doubt that Japan will ever take responsibility for anything they did in North Korea between 1903 and the end of WWII and consequently North Korea will not move on the kidnap thing either.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 01:00:03 AM by Akubra »

Offline SVPete

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Re: Japan North Korea talks re kidnaping and comfort women.
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2014, 06:25:35 AM »
It will be interesting to see how this pans out since North Korea and Japan are never the best of friends...

I doubt that Japan will ever take responsibility for anything they did in North Korea between 1903 and the end of WWII and consequently North Korea will not move on the kidnap thing either.

The horrible things done by Japan in Korea were not limited to what is now North Korea. And since Japan has not admitted to or apologized for much of anything done in Korea in the decades since 1945, I don't expect them to do either in the near future. And if/when they do, will they also do likewise regarding mainland China, Taiwan, the Philippines, the Dutch East Indies (modern Indonesia), etc.?
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Online Solar

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Re: Japan North Korea talks re kidnaping and comfort women.
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2014, 06:36:42 AM »
Japan and North Korea to hold talks..


http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/japan-north-korea-to-hold-talks-after-kidnaping-breakthrough-report-541697?curl=1402817935


Meanwhile on another site they are telling a slightly different story.
http://www.nknews.org/2014/03/north-seeks-comfort-women-compensation-in-japan-talks/

It will be interesting to see how this pans out since North Korea and Japan are never the best of friends...

I doubt that Japan will ever take responsibility for anything they did in North Korea between 1903 and the end of WWII and consequently North Korea will not move on the kidnap thing either.
I was in Korea in the very early 70s, and one thing I noticed, was the older generation so despised the Japanese, that they would spit on anyone that used Japanese slang mixed with Korean.
I know there is agreement on trade between the two, but for all to be forgiven, Japan will need to make a public retribution  before the two can move forward.
The Japanese were brutal, and as much as I love both cultures, Japan deserves 100% of the animosity held.
Man up Japan, do the honorable thing and accept responsibility for your ancestors behavior.
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Offline TboneAgain

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Re: Japan North Korea talks re kidnaping and comfort women.
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2014, 04:16:19 PM »
Up to and through WWII, many Japanese, while sharing fairly obvious anthropological roots with all Southeastern Asian peoples, believed themselves to be superior to all others. A similar delusion was common to some devoted -- fanatical -- Nazis, that their particular strain of white folk was better than every other strain of white folk.
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Offline SVPete

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Re: Japan North Korea talks re kidnaping and comfort women.
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2014, 05:55:46 PM »
Though to a much lesser degree, ethnicism (don't know the right word) is somewhat common among East and Southeast Asians. Han Chinese do not not treat ethnic minorities in China very well. E.G., educational opportunities for Tibetans are only slightly better (if their opportunities are better) than for southern US blacks in the late 50s and early 60s.

But, yeah, the Japanese were very brutal conquerors in Korea and China.
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Offline Mountainshield

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Re: Japan North Korea talks re kidnaping and comfort women.
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2014, 05:36:59 AM »
"Every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

It is not justice for the Japanese government to force it's citizens to pay for the sins of their fathers, a statement of sincere apology from the Japanese government and sincere forgiveness from Korea would go a long way to solve the issue.

But there will always be certain individuals that will use past grudges to justify present compensation from slights they themselves never experienced, was reading ecclesiastes last thursday and this story reminded me of "only a fool hold grudges".
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 05:41:35 AM by Mountainshield »

Online Solar

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Re: Japan North Korea talks re kidnaping and comfort women.
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2014, 05:57:39 AM »
"Every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

It is not justice for the Japanese government to force it's citizens to pay for the sins of their fathers, a statement of sincere apology from the Japanese government and sincere forgiveness from Korea would go a long way to solve the issue.

But there will always be certain individuals that will use past grudges to justify present compensation from slights they themselves never experienced, was reading ecclesiastes last thursday and this story reminded me of "only a fool hold grudges".
In it's simplest of forms, your words ring true.
However, take the North and South Civil war, many alive today suffer from the loss of family land and heritage, along with fortune and insult to family.
Grudges take on many forms, and yes it's best to forgive, but sometimes dangerous to forget.

And no people, this is not a Civil war thread, so don't go there, it was merely an example!
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Offline Mountainshield

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Re: Japan North Korea talks re kidnaping and comfort women.
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2014, 07:28:05 AM »
In it's simplest of forms, your words ring true.
However, take the North and South Civil war, many alive today suffer from the loss of family land and heritage, along with fortune and insult to family.
Grudges take on many forms, and yes it's best to forgive, but sometimes dangerous to forget.

And no people, this is not a Civil war thread, so don't go there, it was merely an example!

That is true, it's important for both Japanese and Koreans to learn about the atrocities committed in WW2 just like it is important to always remember the atrocities committed by the Germans, Russians and also remember the consequences they can bring in the form of Dresden, rape of Berlin and firebombing of Tokyo. But like the Chinese are using the rape of Nanking to justify aggressive expansion into disputed waters with Japan today will only lead to more hate/grudges just as southern men holding grudges against the Union for their family's losses during the civil war.

Also using the Bible as foundation forgiveness should only come after repentance. The Japanese as a collective entity is responsible for it's crimes, but it's citizens that had no hand in the doing does not. It is perverse to force descendents of criminals to repent for the crimes of their fathers, using the most obvious example of liberals forcing white people to collectively apologize and condescendingly showing repentance to random black people which they have never wronged in their life. Forcing Japanese people to pay for the crimes during ww2 is the same principle as that.

I'm not sure if it is genetic or cultural, but it is something that seems inherently honorable about blood feuds or avenging past grievances, if a family or country is unable to avenge themselves against aggression it will send the signal to others that they are easy gain. Not sure if that explains it though..

Offline SVPete

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Re: Japan North Korea talks re kidnaping and comfort women.
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2014, 08:48:28 AM »
Going to quibble your comments on repentance, Ms. Daniel repented for the sins of his nation, things done when he was a child or not yet born. The same is true of Josiah.

At a (modern) national level, current governments do bear some responsibility for previous administrations' actions. Obviously the passage of time is relevant. For example, the heirs of art stolen by the Nazis have some claim on the present German government; OTOH, no English citizen has any sort of claim against the nation of France for the 11th Century invasion of England.

Bear with me a sentence or three longer. I think three concepts are in play in this: acknowledgement; repentance; reconciliation.

Now for some application. The oppression of Korea and the "Comfort Women"  were actions of the Imperial Japanese Government, stemming from the Russo-Japanese War through 1945. The men who perpetrated individual acts oppression and enslavement or took advantage thereof are mostly dead. And the current government is a constitutional monarchy, whose monarch is purely symbolic.

Repentance by specific people for actions they did is no longer possible.

Minimally, the current Japanese government and Japanese culture/society/citizenry should acknowledge - with sorrow - the oppression of the Korean people, women especially. The present government should have directly compensated the "Comfort Women", financially and by publicly acknowledging full responsibility for what was done to them. Sadly whatever of those moral obligations yet remains is mostly no longer possible, as most of these women are dead.

The enormity of the some 4 decades of oppression of an entire ethnic group - almost entirely within the past century - does, IMO, make some sort of national repentance appropriate. But that is a Christian POV, and Christians are a small minority in Japan.

Further, I think South Korea appropriately limits reconciliation with Japan until the government of Japan fully and publicly acknowledges and apologizes for (as a government) its oppression of the Korean people. The bellicosity of NoKo and China force SoKo and Japan to cooperate some, but recent history makes that difficult. With the passage of time, SoKo and Japan may grow closer. How much better if Japan would put that reconciliation process in high gear by fully and publicly acknowledging what happened, with appropriate sorrow?!
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Offline Mountainshield

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Re: Japan North Korea talks re kidnaping and comfort women.
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2014, 09:48:59 AM »
Going to quibble your comments on repentance, Ms. Daniel repented for the sins of his nation, things done when he was a child or not yet born. The same is true of Josiah.

At a (modern) national level, current governments do bear some responsibility for previous administrations' actions. Obviously the passage of time is relevant. For example, the heirs of art stolen by the Nazis have some claim on the present German government; OTOH, no English citizen has any sort of claim against the nation of France for the 11th Century invasion of England.

Bear with me a sentence or three longer. I think three concepts are in play in this: acknowledgement; repentance; reconciliation.

Now for some application. The oppression of Korea and the "Comfort Women"  were actions of the Imperial Japanese Government, stemming from the Russo-Japanese War through 1945. The men who perpetrated individual acts oppression and enslavement or took advantage thereof are mostly dead. And the current government is a constitutional monarchy, whose monarch is purely symbolic.

Repentance by specific people for actions they did is no longer possible.

Minimally, the current Japanese government and Japanese culture/society/citizenry should acknowledge - with sorrow - the oppression of the Korean people, women especially. The present government should have directly compensated the "Comfort Women", financially and by publicly acknowledging full responsibility for what was done to them. Sadly whatever of those moral obligations yet remains is mostly no longer possible, as most of these women are dead.

The enormity of the some 4 decades of oppression of an entire ethnic group - almost entirely within the past century - does, IMO, make some sort of national repentance appropriate. But that is a Christian POV, and Christians are a small minority in Japan.

Further, I think South Korea appropriately limits reconciliation with Japan until the government of Japan fully and publicly acknowledges and apologizes for (as a government) its oppression of the Korean people. The bellicosity of NoKo and China force SoKo and Japan to cooperate some, but recent history makes that difficult. With the passage of time, SoKo and Japan may grow closer. How much better if Japan would put that reconciliation process in high gear by fully and publicly acknowledging what happened, with appropriate sorrow?!

I agree wholly, Germany repented after ww2 (wrongfully continue to oppress their current youth with shame imo) and to use my own country of Norway as an analogy have excellent relations with Germany now after 60 years of healing, Germany is Norway biggest buyer and Germany is Norway's most important manufacturer and in many cases maintenance crew of Norway's machine tools/high tech industrial parts. Noted though that Germany treated Norway as a maiden bride compared to Japan's treatment of Korea as a comfort woman, so maybe not perfect analogy but Norway was still oppressed :P

Have to say I severely dislike your nick, SV means Sosialistisk Venstre/Socialist Left in Norway :P

Offline mdgiles

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Re: Japan North Korea talks re kidnaping and comfort women.
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2014, 08:34:21 AM »
Not the Japanese. They expect unending sympathy for the fact that the US firebombed them, then A-bombed them; a fate brought on them by their leaders. Yet they honored these leaders by burying them in a shrine for their dead soldiers, after they were executed for war crimes. At least Onishi - the founder of the Kamikazes - had enough honor to commit seppuku. And Ugaki the actual head of the Kamikazi, flew the last mission flown by them.
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Offline TboneAgain

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Re: Japan North Korea talks re kidnaping and comfort women.
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2014, 09:14:51 PM »
Not the Japanese. They expect unending sympathy for the fact that the US firebombed them, then A-bombed them; a fate brought on them by their leaders. Yet they honored these leaders by burying them in a shrine for their dead soldiers, after they were executed for war crimes. At least Onishi - the founder of the Kamikazes - had enough honor to commit seppuku. And Ugaki the actual head of the Kamikazi, flew the last mission flown by them.

Coincidental to this discussion, City Journal is currently rerunning a Judith Miller essay from four years ago about Japan's widespread (but rarely discussed and utterly unacknowledged by Japan) use of biological warfare agents in China. Damn good reading!
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Offline Alaska Slim

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Re: Japan North Korea talks re kidnaping and comfort women.
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2014, 03:32:37 AM »
Going to quibble your comments on repentance, Ms. Daniel repented for the sins of his nation, things done when he was a child or not yet born. The same is true of Josiah.

At a (modern) national level, current governments do bear some responsibility for previous administrations' actions. Obviously the passage of time is relevant.
That's actually why I don't think this is as pressing as North Korean abductees from 2002.

That happened only 12 years ago, they could still be alive, and I know some have come back, but I don't know if it's all.

If they haven't, it's an on-going hostage crisis. There's nothing on going about murders from 70-80 years ago.
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