History of the RINO

Started by T Hunt, April 16, 2018, 08:27:17 AM

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Solar

Quote from: |Glitch| on May 14, 2018, 12:09:58 PM
Incorrect.  The US had been off the Gold Standard for 38 years before Nixon took the US off the Silver Standard.  You are confusing Nixon with FDR.  Nixon had no choice but to take the US off the Silver Standard because of the Marshall Plan.  We flooded Europe with US dollars rebuilding it after WW II, and if Nixon had not taken the dollar off of all precious metal standards in 1971 it would have bankrupted the nation.
That's what I said, so how is it incorrect?

https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/gold_convertibility_ends

QuoteAlso incorrect.  There has always been third parties in the US, and the Progressive Party was one of them.
Actually, there are 23 3rd party choices at the moment.

QuoteYou wouldn't call the Libertarian Party or Constitution Party a split from the Republican Party would you?
Yes, I would, as evidenced by many leaving the Dim party in the last decade in search of a new party.

QuoteThen you can't call the Progressive Party a split from the Republican Party either.
The party is packed full of progressives, which is what brought about the TEA rebellion in 2010.

QuoteIncorrect yet again.  The Progressive Party were not leftists.  You are allowing Democrats today define what it means to be progressive, and that is a serious mistake.  Progressives are NOT leftists, not by any stretch of the imagination.

Agree, it's what Marxist do, they usurp terms from the right and wrap themselves in Patriotism, a definite misnomer.
But since they've destroyed the true meaning, let them have it, we will always be Classic Liberals.


Leftists hated the Progressive Party.  President Wilson opposed everything the Progressive Party supported, including women's right to vote.  Leftists are anti-liberty, progressives are pro-liberty - which is why they were all former Republicans and no Democrats.  The Progressive Party also supported a federal anti-lynching law, which every Democrat in Congress opposed.  Just because Democrats claim to be "progressive" or "liberal" does not mean that they are.  Democrats are always claiming to be something they clearly are not.
Again, we agree, but leftists know it only takes one generation to forget the past.

QuoteYou need to read "Age of Reform" by Richard Hofstadter.  It covers US political history from 1890 to 1940.    Written in 1960, he won a Pulitzer Prize for History with this book.
If by "steal" you mean implement a constitutionally authorized tax, how do you think government is funded?  Taxation is not theft.

Another point of contention. At what point in taxation is ever enough?


QuoteI already explained how the Republican Party became associated with being "fiscally conservative."  That was a relatively new phenomena started in the 1950s and did not last very long.  The Republican Party today has been infiltrated by so many Democrats that it is nothing like it was just 20 years ago.
Try 40 years.
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#16
Quote from: Solar on May 14, 2018, 03:25:14 PM
That's what I said, so how is it incorrect?
https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/gold_convertibility_ends
You said Nixon took the US off the Gold Standard.  He did not.  FDR did.

Quote from: Solar on May 14, 2018, 03:25:14 PM
Actually, there are 23 3rd party choices at the moment.
Yes, I would, as evidenced by many leaving the Dim party in the last decade in search of a new party.
The party is packed full of progressives, which is what brought about the TEA rebellion in 2010.
By your definition everyone is either a Republican or a Democrat.  Sorry, but reality doesn't work that way.

The original TEA Party was created in 1972 by Libertarians (which also formed their party in 1972) in Minnesota.  It held its first national protest in DC on April 15, 1977.  As their acronym suggests, they only had one issue - taxation.  They continued to hold national protests on April 15th every year following a massive tax increase.  The last was held on April 15, 1994 after Congress enacted a massive retroactive tax increase in 1993.

Then in 2008 the Ron Paul fanatics high-jacked the TEA Party and started using it for a wide variety of issues that it never espoused before.  The original TEA Party ceased to exist after 2008.  It has become a bastardization.

Quote from: Solar on May 14, 2018, 03:25:14 PM
Agree, it's what Marxist do, they usurp terms from the right and wrap themselves in Patriotism, a definite misnomer.
But since they've destroyed the true meaning, let them have it, we will always be Classic Liberals.
It is how leftists have managed to convince millions that Adolf Hitler, the NAZI Party, and the founder of fascism (Benito Mussolini) were somehow right-wing.  Because we "let them have it" and change definitions to suit their political agenda, thus creating what has become "The Great Lie."

The last thing the Democratic Party wants the public to know is how closely they were aligned with the German NAZI Party throughout the 1920s and 1930s.  Democrats not only supported the concentration camps in NAZI Germany, they created those very same camps in the US.

Quote from: Solar on May 14, 2018, 03:25:14 PM
Another point of contention. At what point in taxation is ever enough?
Under our form of government, whenever the voter decides to elect a politician who isn't interested in raising taxes.  As the adage goes, "you get the government you deserve."  As long as the civically illiterate voters continue to blame the wrong people we can expect the status quo to continue, and eventually get even worse.

The real question is how much government can we afford?  As a constitutional conservative I want to see the federal government held to only those powers granted them by the US Constitution.  Which means that Social Security, MediCare/MedicAid, and all federal social spending would be abolished.  That would cut the federal budget by more than 67%.

Quote from: Solar on May 14, 2018, 03:25:14 PM
Try 40 years.
The Republian Party was still fiscally conservative until 1998.  After Speaker Gingrich resigned, however, that began to change.  They still passed appropriation bills prior to 1999.  That hasn't happened since.  Every budget has been passed using Continuing Resolutions, Omnibus bills, and/or Supplimental Spending bills.  It has been exactly 20 years since the House passed all twelve (13 if you count DC) appropriation bills.

Solar

Quote from: |Glitch| on May 14, 2018, 07:03:57 PM
You said Nixon took the US off the Gold Standard.  He did not.  FDR did.
And nothing happened as far as the price of gold since they kept it locked at $32,0 an ounce, Nixon was the one that literally drew the death blow and opened up the country to the Fiat dollar.
I was in Korea at the time and everyone was buying gold, knowing what was about to happen, I was one of them.

QuoteBy your definition everyone is either a Republican or a Democrat.  Sorry, but reality doesn't work that way.

Wrong! There are so many leftists in the gop'E that happily align with the Dim party, essentially making the party Dim lite.
How is it you can't see how far left the GOP has moved, so much so, they're further left than the Dims of the 60s?


QuoteThe original TEA Party was created in 1972 by Libtertarians (which also formed their party in 1972) in Minnesota.  It held its first national protest in DC on April 15, 1977.  As their acronym suggests, they only had one issue - taxation.  They continued to hold national protests on April 15th every year following a massive tax increase.  The last was held on April 15, 1994 after Congress enacted a massive retroactive tax increase.

I suggest you read a bit more before you start proclaiming the Libertarian movement a TEA movement, that is a complete fallacy, and believe me, you'll get plenty of arguments from other TEA members as well, not just me.
The early Libertarian movement had some great points but was quickly flooded with libs who destroyed the movement.
It wasn't until the gop'E installed Gary Johnson as the head for fear Conservatives might dump the GOP.

http://conservativepoliticalforum.com/history/here's-the-original-libertarian-platform-from-1972/msg309776/#msg309776

QuoteThen in 2008 the Ron Paul fanatics high-jacked the TEA Party and started using it for a wide variety of issues that it never espoused before.  The original TEA Party ceased to exist after 2008.  It has become a bastardization.
OK, cut the Bullshit!
TEA is alive and well and was formed in 2010. This forum is packed full of TEA so called members, since there really isn't an actual party.

QuoteIt is how leftists have managed to convince millions that Adolf Hitler, the NAZI Party, and the founder of fascism (Benito Mussolini) were somehow right-wing.  Because we "let them have it" and change definitions to suit their political agenda, thus creating what has become "The Great Lie."
Correct.

QuoteThe last thing the Democratic Party wants the public to know is how closely they were aligned with the German NAZI Party throughout the 1920s and 1930s.  Democrats not only supported the concentration camps in NAZI Germany, they created those very same camps in the US.
Yes, we've discussed it in great detail over the years.

QuoteUnder our form of government, whenever the voter decides to elect a politician who isn't interested in raising taxes.  As the adage goes, "you get the government you deserve."  As long as the civically illiterate voters continue to blame the wrong people we can expect the status quo to continue, and eventually get even worse.
The Republian Party was still fiscally conservative until 1998.  After Speaker Gingrich resigned, however, that began to change.  They still passed appropriation bills prior to 1999.  That hasn't happened since.  Every budget has been passed using Continuing Resolutions, Omnibus bills, and/or Supplimental Spending bills.  It has been exactly 20 years since the House passed all twelve (13 if you count DC) appropriation bills.

Aw Jeez, have you even looked at our unfunded debt? It happended long before Bush, though he was the first to break with the tradition of feigning a balanced budget.
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Quote from: Solar on May 14, 2018, 07:27:20 PM
And nothing happened as far as the price of gold since they kept it locked at $32,0 an ounce, Nixon was the one that literally drew the death blow and opened up the country to the Fiat dollar.
I was in Korea at the time and everyone was buying gold, knowing what was about to happen, I was one of them.
Nixon had no choice in the matter.  The money we flooded Europe with after WW II was coming back to bite us.  Even with those frozen precious metal prices inflation still skyrocketed.  Since you were in Korea at the time you may not recall the 12% inflation during the mid- and late-70s.  The interest rates on 30-year mortgages reached 18% by 1980.

The recession of 1974 to 1984 makes this last recession from 2008 to 2016 seem rather pathetic by comparison.

Quote from: Solar on May 14, 2018, 07:27:20 PM
Wrong! There are so many leftists in the gop'E that happily align with the Dim party, essentially making the party Dim lite.
How is it you can't see how far left the GOP has moved, so much so, they're further left than the Dims of the 60s?
I ceased being a Republican after the 1992 election, and I certainly am not a Democrat.  Despite your delusions to the contrary, there are more than just Republicans and Democrats.  The universe does not revolve around those two politicial parties no matter how much you may desire it.

Quote from: Solar on May 14, 2018, 07:27:20 PM
I suggest you read a bit more before you start proclaiming the Libertarian movement a TEA movement, that is a complete fallacy, and believe me, you'll get plenty of arguments from other TEA members as well, not just me.
The early Libertarian movement had some great points but was quickly flooded with libs who destroyed the movement.
It wasn't until the gop'E installed Gary Johnson as the head for fear Conservatives might dump the GOP.
I lived it, I don't need to read about it.  John Hospers was the Libertarian Party presidential candidate in 1972.  The Libertarian Party formed in Colorado in December 1971.  In Minnesota in 1972 the TEA Party was created by members of the Libertarian Party.  This is a matter of indisputable fact.  The TEA Party did not begin in 2010, nor did it have anything to do with Gary Johnson.

What part of "TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY" are you not able to grasp?  That was the sole issue of the original TEA Party.  In 2008 Ron Paul fanatics high-jacked the TEA Party and began using it for every possible issue under the sun.  By 2010 every State had two or three different TEA Party organizations, each working on different agendas.

The current TEA Party is nothing like the original.

Quote from: Solar on May 14, 2018, 07:27:20 PM
Aw Jeez, have you even looked at our unfunded debt? It happended long before Bush, though he was the first to break with the tradition of feigning a balanced budget.
It took us 191 years to accumulate a National Debt of one trillion dollars.  It has only taken us another 38 years to increase the National Debt to just over $21 trillion.  It also just so happens that during that very same 38 year period civics went conspicuously missing from public schools.  Coincidence?  I think not.

Solar

Quote from: |Glitch| on May 14, 2018, 07:55:33 PM
Nixon had no choice in the matter.  The money we flooded Europe with after WW II was coming back to bite us.  Even with those frozen precious metal prices inflation still skyrocketed.  Since you were in Korea at the time you may not recall the 12% inflation during the mid- and late-70s.  The interest rates on 30-year mortgages reached 18% by 1980.
The recession of 1974 to 1984 makes this last recession from 2008 to 2016 seem rather pathetic by comparison.
Nixon had a choice, he was a coward and took the easy way out.

QuoteI ceased being a Republican after the 1992 election, and I certainly am not a Democrat.  Despite your delusions to the contrary, there are more than just Republicans and Democrats.  The universe does not revolve around those two politicial parties no matter how much you may desire it.

At the moment, the Establishment owns both party's, so in essence, there is but one party, so get that nonsense out of your head.
In spite of what the gop'E says, the Dim party is all but dead, the GOP needs a boogyman so as to keep people voting in more RINO, that's the way they've been playing it for decades, and it's finally coming to an end.

QuoteI lived it, I don't need to read about it.  John Hospers was the Libertarian Party presidential candidate in 1972.  The Libertarian Party formed in Colorado in December 1971.  In Minnesota in 1972 the TEA Party was created by members of the Libertarian Party.  This is a matter of indisputable fact.  The TEA Party did not begin in 2010, nor did it have anything to do with Gary Johnson.

I never said Johnso had anything to do with TEA, I stated he was a RINO the GOP planted to keep Conservatives from joining the movement.

QuoteWhat part of "TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY" are you not able to grasp?  That was the sole issue of the original TEA Party.  In 2008 Ron Paul fanatics high-jacked the TEA Party and began using it for every possible issue under the sun.  By 2010 every State had two or three different TEA Party organizations, each working on different agendas.

Wrong on so many levels! You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own so-called facts.
Paulbots were small in number, there was no way a handful of people had any influence over the TEA movement, so I don't care what you read or where you heard it, it's just a flat out lie that Paulbots had any influence in TEA. TEA didn't come along until 2009, so that blows that crap out of the water.

QuoteThe current TEA Party is nothing like the original.
It took us 191 years to accumulate a National Debt of one trillion dollars.  It has only taken us another 38 years to increase the National Debt to just over $21 trillion.  It also just so happens that during that very same 38 year period civics went conspicuously missing from public schools.  Coincidence?  I think not.
It is in many ways, Patriots finally found a voice in the new TEA movement, not unlike the Tea rebellion of yesteryear.
Here is the history of the current TEA movement, and I should know, I started this forum shortly after.
That's why it's called a TEA forum.

Quote from: Solar on November 05, 2015, 10:37:02 AM
Remember this day? The inception of TEA, the rest is history in the making, and we are still a part of it.
Dead my Ass! :thumbsup:
Six years ago, CNBC started the Tea Party movement.

On February 24, 2009, while reporting for Squawk Box from the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, Rick Santelli (who was briefly featured during Wednesday's debate) went on a dramatic rant against President Obama's Homeowners Affordability and Stability Plan, a stimulus package aimed at helping homeowners in danger of losing their homes to foreclosure.
A true showman in his element, Santelli then turned around to face his audience. "This is America!" he shouted. "How many of you people want to pay for your neighbor's mortgage that has an extra bathroom and can't pay their bills?" The traders erupted in boos.
The moment read like something straight out of the many Tea Party rallies seen during the 2010 election season.

"President Obama, are you listening?" Santelli boomed. "We're thinking of having a Chicago Tea Party in July," he continued. "All you capitalists show up to Lake Michigan, I'm going to start organizing."
"The government is promoting bad behavior," he said. "How about this, president and new administration, why don't you put up a website to have people vote on the Internet as a referendum to see if we really want to subsidize the losers' mortgages."
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/30/when-cnbc-created-the-tea-party.html
Santelli drew rapturous applause from the floor traders—the "silent majority," as he described them—when he added that the government should "reward people that can carry the water instead of drink the water."
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Quote from: Solar on May 14, 2018, 09:06:40 PM
Nixon had a choice, he was a coward and took the easy way out.
The only choice Nixon had was to freeze prices or bankrupt the country.  He chose the former.  I suppose you would have chosen the latter.

Quote from: Solar on May 14, 2018, 09:06:40 PM
Wrong on so many levels! You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own so-called facts.
Paulbots were small in number, there was no way a handful of people had any influence over the TEA movement, so I don't care what you read or where you heard it, it's just a flat out lie that Paulbots had any influence in TEA. TEA didn't come along until 2009, so that blows that crap out of the water.
It is in many ways, Patriots finally found a voice in the new TEA movement, not unlike the Tea rebellion of yesteryear.
Here is the history of the current TEA movement, and I should know, I started this forum shortly after.
That's why it's called a TEA forum.
You might want to actually look it up and get a clue before you embarrass yourself further.  The very first high-jacking of the TEA Party by Ron Paul fanatics was on December 16, 2007 to raise money for Ron Paul's presidential campaign.  Which obviously had absolutely nothing to do with taxes.  These fanatics continued throughout 2008 and into 2009.  By 2009 the TEA Party was completely consumed by these fanatics.  Not content with the single issue of taxation, the TEA Party now protested on July 4, 2009, September 12, 2009, and November 5, 2009 and it had absolutely nothing to do with taxes on any of those occasions.

These are irrefutable and documented facts.  The only one who is wrong here is you.


Solar

Quote from: |Glitch| on May 14, 2018, 11:58:08 PM
The only choice Nixon had was to freeze prices or bankrupt the country.  He chose the former.  I suppose you would have chosen the latter.
Damn Right! I'd have taken a Capitalists approach and bit the bullet and let the market self correct, the way it is designed.

QuoteYou might want to actually look it up and get a clue before you embarrass yourself further.  The very first high-jacking of the TEA Party by Ron Paul fanatics was on December 16, 2007 to raise money for Ron Paul's presidential campaign.  Which obviously had absolutely nothing to do with taxes.  These fanatics continued throughout 2008 and into 2009.  By 2009 the TEA Party was completely consumed by these fanatics.  Not content with the single issue of taxation, the TEA Party now protested on July 4, 2009, September 12, 2009, and November 5, 2009 and it had absolutely nothing to do with taxes on any of those occasions.

These are irrefutable and documented facts.  The only one who is wrong here is you.

I see, so, just because you believe this, it must be so, is that how you debate?
You see, at this forum, when you post bullshit and someone calls you on it, it's incumbent upon that individual to then, back up their crap with supporting documentation.
I think what you fail to realize is, this forum was at the forefront of the TEA movement, one of the reasons for starting this forum was the TEA movement.
We are a historical timeline of events since its inception.
I gave you solid evidence of TEA's birth, either prove it wrong or concede and drop this silly nonsense.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/when-cnbc-created-the-tea-party
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Quote from: Solar on May 15, 2018, 06:20:57 AM
Damn Right! I'd have taken a Capitalists approach and bit the bullet and let the market self correct, the way it is designed.
Why am I not surprised that you would prefer to destroy the nation.   :rolleyes:

Quote from: Solar on May 15, 2018, 06:20:57 AM
I see, so, just because you believe this, it must be so, is that how you debate?
You see, at this forum, when you post bullshit and someone calls you on it, it's incumbent upon that individual to then, back up their crap with supporting documentation.
I think what you fail to realize is, this forum was at the forefront of the TEA movement, one of the reasons for starting this forum was the TEA movement.
We are a historical timeline of events since its inception.
I gave you solid evidence of TEA's birth, either prove it wrong or concede and drop this silly nonsense.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/when-cnbc-created-the-tea-party
It isn't about belief, it is about fact.  I posted the dates of the TEA Party protests going back to their inception in 1972.  You chose to ignore those facts.  All you have is completely made-up bullshit from some hack who knows even less about US politics than you.  Since you prefer to remain deluded and can't accept any documented fact, I consider this thread to be over.  I already spent too much time trying to educate you about US politics since you clearly needed it.  I don't waste my time with those who refuse to learn and deliberately choose to delude themselves.

walkstall

Quote from: |Glitch| on May 15, 2018, 11:21:04 AM
Why am I not surprised that you would prefer to destroy the nation.   :rolleyes:
It isn't about belief, it is about fact.  I posted the dates of the TEA Party protests going back to their inception in 1972.  You chose to ignore those facts.  All you have is completely made-up bullshit from some hack who knows even less about US politics than you.  Since you prefer to remain deluded and can't accept any documented fact, I consider this thread to be over.  I already spent too much time trying to educate you about US politics since you clearly needed it.  I don't waste my time with those who refuse to learn and deliberately choose to delude themselves.


Sorry but from what I see is you post dates and post what you like around them.  I don't see your dates as facts only what you say.  If you think people will blindly follow you on this board your wrong.

But that's just my way of thinking. 
A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."

Solar

Quote from: |Glitch| on May 15, 2018, 11:21:04 AM
Why am I not surprised that you would prefer to destroy the nation.   :rolleyes:
Allowing unimpeded free market capitalism is your idea of destroying the nation? Your RINO is showing.

QuoteIt isn't about belief, it is about fact.  I posted the dates of the TEA Party protests going back to their inception in 1972.  You chose to ignore those facts.
I'm ignoring the facts? I posted the actual party platform and history, you chose to completely ignore the facts, get your shit right.

QuoteAll you have is completely made-up bullshit from some hack who knows even less about US politics than you.  Since you prefer to remain deluded and can't accept any documented fact, I consider this thread to be over.  I already spent too much time trying to educate you about US politics since you clearly needed it.  I don't waste my time with those who refuse to learn and deliberately choose to delude themselves.

Is that how the Neocon works? You claim to post facts but refuse to back them up, I give you an actual documented accounting of events and I'm the one posting bullshit?
Listen, I know more about political events regarding the GOP and its Establishment than you could ever hope to understand, it is you who were schooled on the subject but chose to bury your head in leftist talking points.

Come on, you've been challenged to back up your so called facts, so get your shit together or the entire forum will see you as I do, a RINO with a mission.
Don't waste my time until you can produce evidence of your lies.
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Solar

Quote from: walkstall on May 15, 2018, 11:55:56 AM

Sorry but from what I see is you post dates and post what you like around them.  I don't see your dates as facts only what you say.  If you think people will blindly follow you on this board your wrong.

But that's just my way of thinking.
Yep, theory and presumptive opinions hold no place in a real debate.
Had he bothered to understand the basics of real debate (accredited accounts, an anchor of this forum) he'd know that fact checking is first and foremost in backing one's claims, though, had he known this, he wouldn't have come off looking like such a fool.

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Quote from: walkstall on May 15, 2018, 11:55:56 AM

Sorry but from what I see is you post dates and post what you like around them.  I don't see your dates as facts only what you say.  If you think people will blindly follow you on this board your wrong.

But that's just my way of thinking.
How about the CATO Institute saying the exact same thing that I have been posting?  They even mention December 16, 2007 as the date the TEA Party (which was started by Libertarians in 1972) began their fund raiser for Ron Paul.  I mean how difficult is it to Google "December 16, 2007 Ron Paul?"

Libertarian Roots of the Tea Party

I can't believe nobody on this forum remembers the Libertarian TEA Party from the 1990s, 1980s, and 1970s.  Is everyone under the age of 30, or is there selective amnesia taking place?

walkstall

Quote from: |Glitch| on May 16, 2018, 04:15:59 PM
How about the CATO Institute saying the exact same thing that I have been posting?  They even mention December 16, 2007 as the date the TEA Party (which was started by Libertarians in 1972) began their fund raiser for Ron Paul.  I mean how difficult is it to Google "December 16, 2007 Ron Paul?"

Libertarian Roots of the Tea Party

I can't believe nobody on this forum remembers the Libertarian TEA Party from the 1990s, 1980s, and 1970s.  Is everyone under the age of 30, or is there selective amnesia taking place?


It's not my place to look up your posting.  You make the statement it's your place to back it up on this board.  Also on most other boards I have been on for the last 25+ years.
A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."

Solar

Quote from: |Glitch| on May 16, 2018, 04:15:59 PM
How about the CATO Institute saying the exact same thing that I have been posting?  They even mention December 16, 2007 as the date the TEA Party (which was started by Libertarians in 1972) began their fund raiser for Ron Paul.  I mean how difficult is it to Google "December 16, 2007 Ron Paul?"

Libertarian Roots of the Tea Party

I can't believe nobody on this forum remembers the Libertarian TEA Party from the 1990s, 1980s, and 1970s.  Is everyone under the age of 30, or is there selective amnesia taking place?
Still waiting for proof. And no, an opinion piece from two years after the inception of TEA is not proof.
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Quote from: walkstall on May 16, 2018, 05:22:34 PM

It's not my place to look up your posting.  You make the statement it's your place to back it up on this board.  Also on most other boards I have been on for the last 25+ years.
I just did precisely that.  I can only point you to the facts, I can't force you to read them or accept them.  There are those, like Solar, who prefer to remain ignorant because it spoils their preconceived and utterly ignorant delusions.  If you can't be bothered to click on a link to verify what I said was true or not, then you are a waste of time and just as delusional as Solar.