Back on topic this history is fascinating. I am just starting it but it outlines our early nation and the myths and misconceptions about those times brilliantly. Check it out.

""To live past the end of your myth is a perilous thing," the Canadian poet Anne Carson once said. With Trump, America finds itself at the end of its myth.

To talk about the frontier is also to talk about capitalism, about its power and possibility and its promise of boundlessness. Donald Trump figured out that to talk about the border -and to promise a wall- was a way to acknowledge capitalism's limits, its pain, without having to challenge capitalism's terms. Trump ran promising to end the wars and to reverse the extreme anti-regulatory and free-market program of his party. Once in office, though, he accelerated deregulation, increased military spending, and expanded the wars. But he kept talking about his wall.

That wall might or might not be built. But even if it remains only in its phantasmagorical, budgetary stage, a perpetual negotiating chip between Congress and the White House, the promise of a two-thousand-mile-long, thirty-foot-high ribbon of concrete and steel running along the United States' southern border serves its purpose. It's America's new myth, a monument to the final closing of the frontier. It is a symbol of a nation that used to believe that it had escaped history, or at least strode atop history, bur now finds itself trapped by history, and of a people who used to think they were captains of the future, but now are prisoners of the past."  p8-9 

'The End of the Myth: From the Frontier to the Border Wall in the Mind of America'  by Greg Grandin

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36743029-the-end-of-the-myth


"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."  Dwight D. Eisenhower

Quote from: midcan5 on January 30, 2020, 03:28:52 AM
Back on topic this history is fascinating. I am just starting it but it outlines our early nation and the myths and misconceptions about those times brilliantly. Check it out.

""To live past the end of your myth is a perilous thing," the Canadian poet Anne Carson once said. With Trump, America finds itself at the end of its myth.

To talk about the frontier is also to talk about capitalism, about its power and possibility and its promise of boundlessness. Donald Trump figured out that to talk about the border -and to promise a wall- was a way to acknowledge capitalism's limits, its pain, without having to challenge capitalism's terms. Trump ran promising to end the wars and to reverse the extreme anti-regulatory and free-market program of his party. Once in office, though, he accelerated deregulation, increased military spending, and expanded the wars. But he kept talking about his wall.

That wall might or might not be built. But even if it remains only in its phantasmagorical, budgetary stage, a perpetual negotiating chip between Congress and the White House, the promise of a two-thousand-mile-long, thirty-foot-high ribbon of concrete and steel running along the United States' southern border serves its purpose. It's America's new myth, a monument to the final closing of the frontier. It is a symbol of a nation that used to believe that it had escaped history, or at least strode atop history, bur now finds itself trapped by history, and of a people who used to think they were captains of the future, but now are prisoners of the past."  p8-9 

'The End of the Myth: From the Frontier to the Border Wall in the Mind of America'  by Greg Grandin

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36743029-the-end-of-the-myth


"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."  Dwight D. Eisenhower

Thank you for the recommendation.

I'll check it out at my local library.

If it hasn't been mentioned already, check out the Hardcore History podcast. It's incredible...

Quote from: midcan5 on January 30, 2020, 03:28:52 AM
Back on topic this history is fascinating. I am just starting it but it outlines our early nation and the myths and misconceptions about those times brilliantly. Check it out.

""To live past the end of your myth is a perilous thing," the Canadian poet Anne Carson once said. With Trump, America finds itself at the end of its myth.

To talk about the frontier is also to talk about capitalism, about its power and possibility and its promise of boundlessness. Donald Trump figured out that to talk about the border -and to promise a wall- was a way to acknowledge capitalism's limits, its pain, without having to challenge capitalism's terms. Trump ran promising to end the wars and to reverse the extreme anti-regulatory and free-market program of his party. Once in office, though, he accelerated deregulation, increased military spending, and expanded the wars. But he kept talking about his wall.

That wall might or might not be built. But even if it remains only in its phantasmagorical, budgetary stage, a perpetual negotiating chip between Congress and the White House, the promise of a two-thousand-mile-long, thirty-foot-high ribbon of concrete and steel running along the United States' southern border serves its purpose. It's America's new myth, a monument to the final closing of the frontier. It is a symbol of a nation that used to believe that it had escaped history, or at least strode atop history, bur now finds itself trapped by history, and of a people who used to think they were captains of the future, but now are prisoners of the past."  p8-9 

'The End of the Myth: From the Frontier to the Border Wall in the Mind of America'  by Greg Grandin

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36743029-the-end-of-the-myth


"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."  Dwight D. Eisenhower

Man, you are one gullible little sponge, aren't you? This truly is a liberal trait. Thanks for exposing it...

Two lies right off the top. Capitalism isn't evil, and yes, it's obvious the author disdains the thought. Second, Trump hasn't expanded any wars, I challenge you to make her case.
And finally, her claim that building a wall somehow ends Americas frontier expansion, is ludicrous. Many Nations envy our lifestyle and would love to emulate it, so the US has an entire world at its feet waiting for Freedom.
Oh, and what will this eloquent twit say once the wall is complete?

You're like a child when it comes to books. It really isn't the content, it's the pretty and eloquent way an author paints the image they want you to imagine, like that of a child's picture book.
You are so engrossed in the image, you fail to recognize the subliminal message being presented. Karl Marx pulled off the same song and billions died because of it.

A Distant Mirror: The Calamitous Fourteenth Century by Barbara Tuchman.(1978) A history of a century enduring both the Hundred Years War and the Black Death. If you want a glimpse of real evil, and real virtue, read this book.

The Guns of August by Barbara Tuchman (1962) A detaited study of the opening moves of the Great War.

The Fort by Bernard Cornwell (2010). While this is actually a novel, it is a well reseached book covering the Penobscot Expedition where a large force of rebels attacked Fort George in 1779.

Paris 1919: Six Months that Changed the World by Margaret MacMillan (2007) This is an excellent history of the Paris Peace Conference ant the end of the Great War.

The National Dream/ The Last Spike (2 Volumes 1970 and 1971) by Pierre Berton. The story of the construction of the CPR and the story of Confederation.

Quote from: Solar on July 17, 2019, 06:30:42 AM
Still, you avoid my question...
I know history, I know how things change through time, cause and effect, I understand human nature, I also know our Founders understood this better than anyone living today, which is why they created a Republic, Our Republic.
They understood power and corruption but they also understood Gods Law and the law of Nature and found the perfect balance between the two which is why they created a system not only slow to change, but one where stagnation in govt growth was considered a good thing.
For all the reading you do, why has it never clicked in your head, that change, though inevitable, should take place very slowly, yet I see you advocating for radical change in a single generation, when it should take several, so as not to disrupt society, but leftists don't give a shit, consequences be damned! Why is that?

There are 'historians' and then there are 'revisionist.' 

Quote from: WMK on April 17, 2020, 02:20:59 PM
There are 'historians' and then there are 'revisionist.'

Concise and on point!

The Second Oldest Profession by Phillip Knightly. A well reseached study of western intelligence in the twentieth century from the early days of Mi6, William Donovan, Sir William Stephenson, and James J. Angleton among others.

Most books are fractured fairy tales which only do a drive by of the truth, I would like to recommend a book that was written by a bunch of old men with long white wigs. Its called the Constitution Of the United States.

Howard Zinn is the absolute worst and is responsible for our youth's ignorance of US history and their hatred of their own country.

Quote from: John Patriot on May 18, 2020, 01:34:00 PM
Most books are fractured fairy tales which only do a drive by of the truth, I would like to recommend a book that was written by a bunch of old men with long white wigs. Its called the Constitution Of the United States.

Thank You!!!
The only thing I read book wise, are manuals, yeah, I'm weird that way. I don't need opinions pieces to form my own, I get that from critical thought.

Reply to question and comment above. I give our founders great credit but you must recognize too that the system they created was far from perfect and is still far from perfect.  Slavery was an obvious example but living in the modern world is so different than theirs where everything was basically local. And today the most profound difference is staring us in the face. The Pandemic. This happened in the last century but today's world is so interconnected that several viruses have caused great pain. And it is government's responsibility to manage this new world as no else will do it. We have a love hate relationship with our government and I'll link an article at bottom which discusses this aspect. Hope all are healthy, be safe. 

This is worth a read by all.

"This is a critical point in history. Time is running out to prepare for the next pandemic. We must act now with decisiveness and purpose. Someday, after the next pandemic has come and gone, a commission much like the 9/11 Commission will be charged with determining how well government, business, and public health leaders prepared the world for the catastrophe when they had clear warning. What will be the verdict?"

'Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs'

by Michael T. Osterholm, Mark Olshaker

https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/30841977-deadliest-enemy


"Mother Nature is the greatest bioterrorist of them all, with no financial limitations or ethical compunctions."



"Republicans, of course, cloak themselves in the rhetoric of freedom and necessity and express concern about future generations. That the beast they would slay ultimately translates to the lives of American citizens, including some of the most vulnerable who depend on government social programs to which they enjoy legal, political, and moral entitlement, is irrelevant. Hatred of government is a disease with them. They loathe common purpose and project, especially when channeled through the state. Their hatred of government, it seems to me, is tantamount to hatred of country." Steven Johnston

http://contemporarycondition.blogspot.com/2011/08/why-do-republicans-hate-america.html

Quote from: midcan5 on May 26, 2020, 04:00:03 AM
Reply to question and comment above. I give our founders great credit but you must recognize too that the system they created was far from perfect and is still far from perfect.  Slavery was an obvious example but living in the modern world is so different than theirs where everything was basically local. And today the most profound difference is staring us in the face. The Pandemic. This happened in the last century but today's world is so interconnected that several viruses have caused great pain. And it is government's responsibility to manage this new world as no else will do it. We have a love hate relationship with our government and I'll link an article at bottom which discusses this aspect. Hope all are healthy, be safe. 

This is worth a read by all.

"This is a critical point in history. Time is running out to prepare for the next pandemic. We must act now with decisiveness and purpose. Someday, after the next pandemic has come and gone, a commission much like the 9/11 Commission will be charged with determining how well government, business, and public health leaders prepared the world for the catastrophe when they had clear warning. What will be the verdict?"

'Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs'

by Michael T. Osterholm, Mark Olshaker

https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/30841977-deadliest-enemy


"Mother Nature is the greatest bioterrorist of them all, with no financial limitations or ethical compunctions."



"Republicans, of course, cloak themselves in the rhetoric of freedom and necessity and express concern about future generations. That the beast they would slay ultimately translates to the lives of American citizens, including some of the most vulnerable who depend on government social programs to which they enjoy legal, political, and moral entitlement, is irrelevant. Hatred of government is a disease with them. They loathe common purpose and project, especially when channeled through the state. Their hatred of government, it seems to me, is tantamount to hatred of country." Steven Johnston

http://contemporarycondition.blogspot.com/2011/08/why-do-republicans-hate-america.html

"the system they created was far from perfect and is still far from perfect."

You are correct. So please share with us a system you feel would be better.

Quote from: supsalemgr on May 26, 2020, 05:11:02 AM
"the system they created was far from perfect and is still far from perfect."

You are correct. So please share with us a system you feel would be better.

Tough question but I think there are answers and you see them in more homogeneous nations. Our diversity which we often brag about is a double edged sword in the sense it becomes them against us. Or 'them' is used as a scapegoat. Which leads nowhere. My wife and I were driving the neighborhood she grew up in recently and it is a sad sight. Homelessness and drugs have kills so many and create such problems. Our size too is an issue. Rural America has its advantages but it hides problems too. How do we deal with homelessness, we have lots. We are going to be diverse for a long time - maybe forever - but we must somehow find ways to include everyone and provide for everyone. What would you do? 

Governance matters as this OP notes:

'The 17 best-governed countries in the world'

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/17-best-governed-countries-world-a7417096.html

Quote from: midcan5 on May 26, 2020, 04:00:03 AM
Reply to question and comment above. I give our founders great credit but you must recognize too that the system they created was far from perfect and is still far from perfect.  Slavery was an obvious example but living in the modern world is so different than theirs where everything was basically local. And today the most profound difference is staring us in the face. The Pandemic. This happened in the last century but today's world is so interconnected that several viruses have caused great pain. And it is government's responsibility to manage this new world as no else will do it. We have a love hate relationship with our government and I'll link an article at bottom which discusses this aspect. Hope all are healthy, be safe. 

This is worth a read by all.

"This is a critical point in history. Time is running out to prepare for the next pandemic. We must act now with decisiveness and purpose. Someday, after the next pandemic has come and gone, a commission much like the 9/11 Commission will be charged with determining how well government, business, and public health leaders prepared the world for the catastrophe when they had clear warning. What will be the verdict?"

'Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs'

by Michael T. Osterholm, Mark Olshaker

https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/30841977-deadliest-enemy


"Mother Nature is the greatest bioterrorist of them all, with no financial limitations or ethical compunctions."



"Republicans, of course, cloak themselves in the rhetoric of freedom and necessity and express concern about future generations. That the beast they would slay ultimately translates to the lives of American citizens, including some of the most vulnerable who depend on government social programs to which they enjoy legal, political, and moral entitlement, is irrelevant. Hatred of government is a disease with them. They loathe common purpose and project, especially when channeled through the state. Their hatred of government, it seems to me, is tantamount to hatred of country." Steven Johnston

http://contemporarycondition.blogspot.com/2011/08/why-do-republicans-hate-america.html

What is it with you and your worship of govt? Our Founders despised govt, that's why the one they created was tiny and toothless.

The govt you envision is one of great strength and wisdom, and son, there is no such animal and never has been and our Founders created one without intellect, while giving virtually all power to the State.

At some point it will dawn on you that govt is a hindrance to your health and prosperity because of the party's involved running it, the crony capitalist, the Marxist who thinks they knows what is best for the masses, all the while only the chosen few propagate. You will be sacrificed "For the greater good"!

You are nothing to that which you worship, your liberties and Freedoms be damned, they impede those you revere, they don't give a shit about you and your adoration, they see you as expendable because you won't put up a fight.

It's funny, you like to think of yourself as well read, problem is, you take the opinions of others for your own.
How about you take the time to read the words of our Founders themselves, read the Federalist Papers, they're quite self explanatory on their own, that's why they were put together, so even the simpleton could understand what they were forming.

Quote from: midcan5 on May 26, 2020, 05:58:38 AM
Tough question but I think there are answers and you see them in more homogeneous nations. Our diversity which we often brag about is a double edged sword in the sense it becomes them against us. Or 'them' is used as a scapegoat. Which leads nowhere. My wife and I were driving the neighborhood she grew up in recently and it is a sad sight. Homelessness and drugs have kills so many and create such problems. Our size too is an issue. Rural America has its advantages but it hides problems too. How do we deal with homelessness, we have lots. We are going to be diverse for a long time - maybe forever - but we must somehow find ways to include everyone and provide for everyone. What would you do? 

Governance matters as this OP notes:

'The 17 best-governed countries in the world'

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/17-best-governed-countries-world-a7417096.html

Are you suggesting our diversity keeps the USA from being one of the best governed? I personally do not see the connection between diversity and being a republic.