Thought I'd share a few history books I think are worth your time. Other recommendations welcome.
'The Glory and the Dream: A Narrative History of America 1932-72' by William Manchester
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/19807.The_Glory_and_the_Dream
'Memoirs of the Second World War' by Winston S. Churchill
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25589.Memoirs_of_the_Second_World_War
'That's Not What They Meant!: Reclaiming the Founding Fathers from America's Right Wing' by Michael Austin
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15897043-that-s-not-what-they-meant
Five Books is a good source of information on all topics. Five on American history below.
https://fivebooks.com/best-books/american-history-brent-glass/
"Only someone miraculously innocent of history could believe that competition among ideas could result in the triumph of truth" John Gray
"History is the queen of the humanities. It teaches wisdom and humility, and it tells us how things change through time." Gordon S. Wood
"A book is proof that humans are capable of working magic, it's a flat object made from a tree with flexible parts on which are imprinted lots of funny dark squiggles. But one glance at it and you're inside the mind of another person, maybe somebody dead for thousands of years." Carl Sagan
Modern Times by Paul Johnson is excellent.
Dawn to Decadance by Jacques Barzun is another really good read.
I read a lot. But those are two of my favorites that I recommend for those new to the study of history.
Barzun's book looks interesting, I have to check it out. Two excellent reads in the same category are:
'The Modern Mind: An Intellectual History of the 20th Century' by Peter Watson
'Ideas: A History of Thought and Invention, from Fire to Freud' by Peter Watson
Ethnic America by Thomas Sowell was excellent. A brief history of the different immigrant groups that populated America, how and when.
Albion's Seed is very long but I loved it. It explains how America was populated by 4 different immigrant groups/waves from Britain and how they differently affected the US in ways you can still see today.
"The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading." David Bailey
Interesting books above I've read two. So then how about a topic that is often considered hard going and depressing? Evil. Many years ago I read a book on sanctions for evil, I'll link it below. It helped clarify my thinking about evil. Waller's book is well thought out too. Religious people used to think it was temptation, the devil's work, but the modern world looks at evil differently and often simple ascribes it to another, be it for religious or secular reasons. A few recommendations below, enter with care.
'Becoming Evil: How Ordinary People Commit Genocide and Mass Killing' by James Waller
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/106372.Becoming_Evil
'Evil in Modern Thought: An Alternative History of Philosophy'
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/161812.Evil_in_Modern_Thought
'Sanctions For Evil'
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4649945-sanctions-for-evil
Other suggestions:
https://fivebooks.com/best-books/cruelty-and-evil-paul-bloom/
'The Meaning of Hitler'
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/54338.The_Meaning_of_Hitler
Talk:
http://www.ted.com/talks/philip_zimbardo_on_the_psychology_of_evil.html
"The trouble with Eichmann was precisely that so many were like him, and that the many were neither perverted nor sadistic, that they were, and still are, terribly and terrifyingly normal. From the viewpoint of our legal institutions and of our moral standards of judgment, this normality was much more terrifying than all the atrocities put together." Hannah Arendt
https://aeon.co/ideas/what-did-hannah-arendt-really-mean-by-the-banality-of-evil
https://aeon.co/essays/is-neuroscience-getting-closer-to-explaining-evil-behaviour
"We first kill people with our minds, before we kill them with weapons. Whatever the conflict, the enemy is always the destroyer. We're on God's side; they're barbaric. We're good, they're evil. War gives us a feeling of moral clarity that we lack at other times." Sam Keen
Quote from: lecarrjan on June 13, 2019, 05:54:36 AM
"The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading." David Bailey
Interesting books above I've read two. So then how about a topic that is often considered hard going and depressing? Evil. Many years ago I read a book on sanctions for evil, I'll link it below. It helped clarify my thinking about evil. Waller's book is well thought out too. Religious people used to think it was temptation, the devil's work, but the modern world looks at evil differently and often simple ascribes it to another, be it for religious or secular reasons. A few recommendations below, enter with care.
'Becoming Evil: How Ordinary People Commit Genocide and Mass Killing' by James Waller
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/106372.Becoming_Evil
'Evil in Modern Thought: An Alternative History of Philosophy'
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/161812.Evil_in_Modern_Thought
'Sanctions For Evil'
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4649945-sanctions-for-evil
Other suggestions:
https://fivebooks.com/best-books/cruelty-and-evil-paul-bloom/
'The Meaning of Hitler'
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/54338.The_Meaning_of_Hitler
Talk:
http://www.ted.com/talks/philip_zimbardo_on_the_psychology_of_evil.html
"The trouble with Eichmann was precisely that so many were like him, and that the many were neither perverted nor sadistic, that they were, and still are, terribly and terrifyingly normal. From the viewpoint of our legal institutions and of our moral standards of judgment, this normality was much more terrifying than all the atrocities put together." Hannah Arendt
https://aeon.co/ideas/what-did-hannah-arendt-really-mean-by-the-banality-of-evil
https://aeon.co/essays/is-neuroscience-getting-closer-to-explaining-evil-behaviour
"We first kill people with our minds, before we kill them with weapons. Whatever the conflict, the enemy is always the destroyer. We're on God's side; they're barbaric. We're good, they're evil. War gives us a feeling of moral clarity that we lack at other times." Sam Keen
I've always found this subject of good vs evil to be a bit subjective, but fascinating.
Take Dims, they believe in their hearts that bigger govt is the answer, while the right sees this as rightly suppressing freedom and liberty.
Both believe they are right, both could justify fighting for what they believe in.
So who is correct? Does one group have the right to dictate what another group does? Nope. And most would see oppression as evil, but in the minds of the left, it's not oppression, they believe they are standing up for the little guy being overlooked by those fighting for freedom, individuality and liberty.
The left believes in their own crusade of protecting those without a voice, the right thinks everyone should be allowed to choose their own path. Who do you think is Right?
Both could very easily find consensus, but both sides have extremists not willing to budge.
Again, quite a fascinating debate.
I read a few good history books in the past couple years.
Hitlerland - What were the impressions of Americans who went to Germany and even met Hitler in the 1930s, as they wrote it down at the time. No 20/20 hindsight. Lots of journalists and foreign service people. The women said Hitler was effeminate.
Bankrupting the Enemy - How the US financially squeezed Japan prior to Pearl Harbor through import and export bans and through denying them use of international finance channels. Very detailed. From the Naval Institute Press.
Seeing Like a State - Not exactly a history book but how the state sees people over history. The state wants to see, control, tax, and conscript and that explains their actions. Maps, roads, last names, and more.
Quote from: patentlymn on June 17, 2019, 04:05:55 PM
I read a few good history books in the past couple years.
Hitlerland - What were the impressions of Americans who went to Germany and even met Hitler in the 1930s, as they wrote it down at the time. No 20/20 hindsight. Lots of journalists and foreign service people. The women said Hitler was effeminate.
Bankrupting the Enemy - How the US financially squeezed Japan prior to Pearl Harbor through import and export bans and through denying them use of international finance channels. Very detailed. From the Naval Institute Press.
Seeing Like a State - Not exactly a history book but how the state sees people over history. The state wants to see, control, tax, and conscript and that explains their actions. Maps, roads, last names, and more.
Thanks, all sound rather interesting. I love history.
For all you American wanderers and travelers, the mid-west is such a fascinating place. I love the openness and the long empty roads, the small towns, even as they change and often close. I have photos in the south too where so much is boarded up and abandoned homes dot the landscape. Sad really. So seeing the book by Greg Grandlin sparked my interest as we often live or is that believe in a mythical place now past.
'The End of the Myth: From the Frontier to the Border Wall in the Mind of America' Greg Grandin
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36743029-the-end-of-the-myth
A great read is 'Deep South: Four Seasons on Back Roads' by Paul Theroux We've traveled many of these same roads.
Saw this too, maybe another time. 'The Absent Hand: Reimagining Our American Landscape' by Suzannah Lessard
Footnote on Evil and books mentioned above. An interesting read - not for everyone is 'One of Us: The Story of Anders Breivik and the Massacre in Norway' by Åsne Seierstad, Sarah Death (Translator)
I am reading 'The Rise and Fall of Communism' by Archie Brown, a very detailed account that is worth your time if you are a history buff or have an interest in Communism. Brown's book covered the historical underpinnings of communist thought and its concept of social revolution. Today many still believe that drastic social change is inevitable should we do such and such. Introduce one policy and the entire system collapses and we all live happily or not so happily onward. Our founders got one thing right, they recognized that government and its people required checks and balance. That is why we are still a democracy and not an autocracy. Let's keep it that way.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6004393-the-rise-and-fall-of-communism
"To understand is to perceive patterns." Isaiah Berlin
Quote from: midcan5 on July 15, 2019, 05:53:39 AM
I am reading 'The Rise and Fall of Communism' by Archie Brown, a very detailed account that is worth your time if you are a history buff or have an interest in Communism. Brown's book covered the historical underpinnings of communist thought and its concept of social revolution. Today many still believe that drastic social change is inevitable should we do such and such. Introduce one policy and the entire system collapses and we all live happily or not so happily onward. Our founders got one thing right, they recognized that government and its people required checks and balance. That is why we are still a democracy and not an autocracy. Let's keep it that way.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6004393-the-rise-and-fall-of-communism
"To understand is to perceive patterns." Isaiah Berlin
Two things. Obviously you have studied history, so how is it you can't see the direction the Dim party has taken, how much the party is continuing to push, and far far we've fallen since? I include the GOP in this collapse after being taken over by leftists.
And second, we're not a fuckin Democracy!
LOL I should have wrote republic, but the book is excellent. Read it read it read it. You will be enlightened.
"History is the queen of the humanities. It teaches wisdom and humility, and it tells us how things change through time." Gordon S. Wood
Quote from: midcan5 on July 17, 2019, 05:47:14 AM
LOL I should have wrote republic, but the book is excellent. Read it read it read it. You will be enlightened.
"History is the queen of the humanities. It teaches wisdom and humility, and it tells us how things change through time." Gordon S. Wood
Still, you avoid my question...
I know history, I know how things change through time, cause and effect, I understand human nature, I also know our Founders understood this better than anyone living today, which is why they created a Republic, Our Republic.
They understood power and corruption but they also understood Gods Law and the law of Nature and found the perfect balance between the two which is why they created a system not only slow to change, but one where stagnation in govt growth was considered a good thing.
For all the reading you do, why has it never clicked in your head, that change, though inevitable, should take place very slowly, yet I see you advocating for radical change in a single generation, when it should take several, so as not to disrupt society, but leftists don't give a shit, consequences be damned! Why is that?
Quote from: midcan5 on October 11, 2019, 05:52:44 AM
If you want a real challenge I have an author - I should have listed above not sure how I had missed him - for you all. William T. Vollmann. I have been re-reading 'Rising up, Rising Down'. The abridged edition. Vollmann will challenge you in a way you have never been challenged before. I've read several of his other books, but I'll leave it there for now.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/45637.Rising_Up_and_Rising_Down
"Just for the hell of it, try to love someone as unlike you as possible." William T. Vollmann
Since so many people mention Rand, I thought I'd add this review. I am not a fan.
"Out of a lifetime of reading, I can recall no other book in which a tone of overriding arrogance was so implacably sustained. Its shrillness is without reprieve. Its dogmatism is without appeal. In addition, the mind which finds this tone natural to it shares other characteristics of its type. 1) It consistently mistakes raw force for strength, and the rawer the force, the more reverent the posture of the mind before it. 2) It supposes itself to be the bringer of a final revelation. Therefore, resistance to the Message cannot be tolerated because disagreement can never be merely honest, prudent, or just humanly fallible." Whittaker Chambers
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2705853/posts
I guess "leaving it there" is easier than responding to questions. Too bad.
Quote from: s3779m on October 11, 2019, 06:02:57 AM
I guess "leaving it there" is easier than responding to questions. Too bad.
Thanks for making note of this. I will start deleting every post he makes until he responds to all the old replies/queries.
Back on topic this history is fascinating. I am just starting it but it outlines our early nation and the myths and misconceptions about those times brilliantly. Check it out.
""To live past the end of your myth is a perilous thing," the Canadian poet Anne Carson once said. With Trump, America finds itself at the end of its myth.
To talk about the frontier is also to talk about capitalism, about its power and possibility and its promise of boundlessness. Donald Trump figured out that to talk about the border -and to promise a wall- was a way to acknowledge capitalism's limits, its pain, without having to challenge capitalism's terms. Trump ran promising to end the wars and to reverse the extreme anti-regulatory and free-market program of his party. Once in office, though, he accelerated deregulation, increased military spending, and expanded the wars. But he kept talking about his wall.
That wall might or might not be built. But even if it remains only in its phantasmagorical, budgetary stage, a perpetual negotiating chip between Congress and the White House, the promise of a two-thousand-mile-long, thirty-foot-high ribbon of concrete and steel running along the United States' southern border serves its purpose. It's America's new myth, a monument to the final closing of the frontier. It is a symbol of a nation that used to believe that it had escaped history, or at least strode atop history, bur now finds itself trapped by history, and of a people who used to think they were captains of the future, but now are prisoners of the past." p8-9
'The End of the Myth: From the Frontier to the Border Wall in the Mind of America' by Greg Grandin
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36743029-the-end-of-the-myth
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both." Dwight D. Eisenhower
Quote from: midcan5 on January 30, 2020, 03:28:52 AM
Back on topic this history is fascinating. I am just starting it but it outlines our early nation and the myths and misconceptions about those times brilliantly. Check it out.
""To live past the end of your myth is a perilous thing," the Canadian poet Anne Carson once said. With Trump, America finds itself at the end of its myth.
To talk about the frontier is also to talk about capitalism, about its power and possibility and its promise of boundlessness. Donald Trump figured out that to talk about the border -and to promise a wall- was a way to acknowledge capitalism's limits, its pain, without having to challenge capitalism's terms. Trump ran promising to end the wars and to reverse the extreme anti-regulatory and free-market program of his party. Once in office, though, he accelerated deregulation, increased military spending, and expanded the wars. But he kept talking about his wall.
That wall might or might not be built. But even if it remains only in its phantasmagorical, budgetary stage, a perpetual negotiating chip between Congress and the White House, the promise of a two-thousand-mile-long, thirty-foot-high ribbon of concrete and steel running along the United States' southern border serves its purpose. It's America's new myth, a monument to the final closing of the frontier. It is a symbol of a nation that used to believe that it had escaped history, or at least strode atop history, bur now finds itself trapped by history, and of a people who used to think they were captains of the future, but now are prisoners of the past." p8-9
'The End of the Myth: From the Frontier to the Border Wall in the Mind of America' by Greg Grandin
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36743029-the-end-of-the-myth
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both." Dwight D. Eisenhower
Thank you for the recommendation.
I'll check it out at my local library.
If it hasn't been mentioned already, check out the Hardcore History podcast. It's incredible...
Quote from: midcan5 on January 30, 2020, 03:28:52 AM
Back on topic this history is fascinating. I am just starting it but it outlines our early nation and the myths and misconceptions about those times brilliantly. Check it out.
""To live past the end of your myth is a perilous thing," the Canadian poet Anne Carson once said. With Trump, America finds itself at the end of its myth.
To talk about the frontier is also to talk about capitalism, about its power and possibility and its promise of boundlessness. Donald Trump figured out that to talk about the border -and to promise a wall- was a way to acknowledge capitalism's limits, its pain, without having to challenge capitalism's terms. Trump ran promising to end the wars and to reverse the extreme anti-regulatory and free-market program of his party. Once in office, though, he accelerated deregulation, increased military spending, and expanded the wars. But he kept talking about his wall.
That wall might or might not be built. But even if it remains only in its phantasmagorical, budgetary stage, a perpetual negotiating chip between Congress and the White House, the promise of a two-thousand-mile-long, thirty-foot-high ribbon of concrete and steel running along the United States' southern border serves its purpose. It's America's new myth, a monument to the final closing of the frontier. It is a symbol of a nation that used to believe that it had escaped history, or at least strode atop history, bur now finds itself trapped by history, and of a people who used to think they were captains of the future, but now are prisoners of the past." p8-9
'The End of the Myth: From the Frontier to the Border Wall in the Mind of America' by Greg Grandin
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36743029-the-end-of-the-myth
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both." Dwight D. Eisenhower
Man, you are one gullible little sponge, aren't you? This truly is a liberal trait. Thanks for exposing it...
Two lies right off the top. Capitalism isn't evil, and yes, it's obvious the author disdains the thought. Second, Trump hasn't expanded any wars, I challenge you to make her case.
And finally, her claim that building a wall somehow ends Americas frontier expansion, is ludicrous. Many Nations envy our lifestyle and would love to emulate it, so the US has an entire world at its feet waiting for Freedom.
Oh, and what will this eloquent twit say once the wall is complete?
You're like a child when it comes to books. It really isn't the content, it's the pretty and eloquent way an author paints the image they want you to imagine, like that of a child's picture book.
You are so engrossed in the image, you fail to recognize the subliminal message being presented. Karl Marx pulled off the same song and billions died because of it.
A Distant Mirror: The Calamitous Fourteenth Century by Barbara Tuchman.(1978) A history of a century enduring both the Hundred Years War and the Black Death. If you want a glimpse of real evil, and real virtue, read this book.
The Guns of August by Barbara Tuchman (1962) A detaited study of the opening moves of the Great War.
The Fort by Bernard Cornwell (2010). While this is actually a novel, it is a well reseached book covering the Penobscot Expedition where a large force of rebels attacked Fort George in 1779.
Paris 1919: Six Months that Changed the World by Margaret MacMillan (2007) This is an excellent history of the Paris Peace Conference ant the end of the Great War.
The National Dream/ The Last Spike (2 Volumes 1970 and 1971) by Pierre Berton. The story of the construction of the CPR and the story of Confederation.
Quote from: Solar on July 17, 2019, 06:30:42 AM
Still, you avoid my question...
I know history, I know how things change through time, cause and effect, I understand human nature, I also know our Founders understood this better than anyone living today, which is why they created a Republic, Our Republic.
They understood power and corruption but they also understood Gods Law and the law of Nature and found the perfect balance between the two which is why they created a system not only slow to change, but one where stagnation in govt growth was considered a good thing.
For all the reading you do, why has it never clicked in your head, that change, though inevitable, should take place very slowly, yet I see you advocating for radical change in a single generation, when it should take several, so as not to disrupt society, but leftists don't give a shit, consequences be damned! Why is that?
There are 'historians' and then there are 'revisionist.'
Quote from: WMK on April 17, 2020, 02:20:59 PM
There are 'historians' and then there are 'revisionist.'
Concise and on point! :thumbup:
The Second Oldest Profession by Phillip Knightly. A well reseached study of western intelligence in the twentieth century from the early days of Mi6, William Donovan, Sir William Stephenson, and James J. Angleton among others.
Most books are fractured fairy tales which only do a drive by of the truth, I would like to recommend a book that was written by a bunch of old men with long white wigs. Its called the Constitution Of the United States.
Howard Zinn is the absolute worst and is responsible for our youth's ignorance of US history and their hatred of their own country.
Quote from: John Patriot on May 18, 2020, 01:34:00 PM
Most books are fractured fairy tales which only do a drive by of the truth, I would like to recommend a book that was written by a bunch of old men with long white wigs. Its called the Constitution Of the United States.
Thank You!!!
The only thing I read book wise, are manuals, yeah, I'm weird that way. I don't need opinions pieces to form my own, I get that from critical thought.
Reply to question and comment above. I give our founders great credit but you must recognize too that the system they created was far from perfect and is still far from perfect. Slavery was an obvious example but living in the modern world is so different than theirs where everything was basically local. And today the most profound difference is staring us in the face. The Pandemic. This happened in the last century but today's world is so interconnected that several viruses have caused great pain. And it is government's responsibility to manage this new world as no else will do it. We have a love hate relationship with our government and I'll link an article at bottom which discusses this aspect. Hope all are healthy, be safe.
This is worth a read by all.
"This is a critical point in history. Time is running out to prepare for the next pandemic. We must act now with decisiveness and purpose. Someday, after the next pandemic has come and gone, a commission much like the 9/11 Commission will be charged with determining how well government, business, and public health leaders prepared the world for the catastrophe when they had clear warning. What will be the verdict?"
'Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs'
by Michael T. Osterholm, Mark Olshaker
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/30841977-deadliest-enemy
"Mother Nature is the greatest bioterrorist of them all, with no financial limitations or ethical compunctions."
"Republicans, of course, cloak themselves in the rhetoric of freedom and necessity and express concern about future generations. That the beast they would slay ultimately translates to the lives of American citizens, including some of the most vulnerable who depend on government social programs to which they enjoy legal, political, and moral entitlement, is irrelevant. Hatred of government is a disease with them. They loathe common purpose and project, especially when channeled through the state. Their hatred of government, it seems to me, is tantamount to hatred of country." Steven Johnston
http://contemporarycondition.blogspot.com/2011/08/why-do-republicans-hate-america.html (http://contemporarycondition.blogspot.com/2011/08/why-do-republicans-hate-america.html)
Quote from: midcan5 on May 26, 2020, 04:00:03 AM
Reply to question and comment above. I give our founders great credit but you must recognize too that the system they created was far from perfect and is still far from perfect. Slavery was an obvious example but living in the modern world is so different than theirs where everything was basically local. And today the most profound difference is staring us in the face. The Pandemic. This happened in the last century but today's world is so interconnected that several viruses have caused great pain. And it is government's responsibility to manage this new world as no else will do it. We have a love hate relationship with our government and I'll link an article at bottom which discusses this aspect. Hope all are healthy, be safe.
This is worth a read by all.
"This is a critical point in history. Time is running out to prepare for the next pandemic. We must act now with decisiveness and purpose. Someday, after the next pandemic has come and gone, a commission much like the 9/11 Commission will be charged with determining how well government, business, and public health leaders prepared the world for the catastrophe when they had clear warning. What will be the verdict?"
'Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs'
by Michael T. Osterholm, Mark Olshaker
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/30841977-deadliest-enemy
"Mother Nature is the greatest bioterrorist of them all, with no financial limitations or ethical compunctions."
"Republicans, of course, cloak themselves in the rhetoric of freedom and necessity and express concern about future generations. That the beast they would slay ultimately translates to the lives of American citizens, including some of the most vulnerable who depend on government social programs to which they enjoy legal, political, and moral entitlement, is irrelevant. Hatred of government is a disease with them. They loathe common purpose and project, especially when channeled through the state. Their hatred of government, it seems to me, is tantamount to hatred of country." Steven Johnston
http://contemporarycondition.blogspot.com/2011/08/why-do-republicans-hate-america.html (http://contemporarycondition.blogspot.com/2011/08/why-do-republicans-hate-america.html)
"the system they created was far from perfect and is still far from perfect."
You are correct. So please share with us a system you feel would be better.
Quote from: supsalemgr on May 26, 2020, 05:11:02 AM
"the system they created was far from perfect and is still far from perfect."
You are correct. So please share with us a system you feel would be better.
Tough question but I think there are answers and you see them in more homogeneous nations. Our diversity which we often brag about is a double edged sword in the sense it becomes them against us. Or 'them' is used as a scapegoat. Which leads nowhere. My wife and I were driving the neighborhood she grew up in recently and it is a sad sight. Homelessness and drugs have kills so many and create such problems. Our size too is an issue. Rural America has its advantages but it hides problems too. How do we deal with homelessness, we have lots. We are going to be diverse for a long time - maybe forever - but we must somehow find ways to include everyone and provide for everyone. What would you do?
Governance matters as this OP notes:
'The 17 best-governed countries in the world'
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/17-best-governed-countries-world-a7417096.html
Quote from: midcan5 on May 26, 2020, 04:00:03 AM
Reply to question and comment above. I give our founders great credit but you must recognize too that the system they created was far from perfect and is still far from perfect. Slavery was an obvious example but living in the modern world is so different than theirs where everything was basically local. And today the most profound difference is staring us in the face. The Pandemic. This happened in the last century but today's world is so interconnected that several viruses have caused great pain. And it is government's responsibility to manage this new world as no else will do it. We have a love hate relationship with our government and I'll link an article at bottom which discusses this aspect. Hope all are healthy, be safe.
This is worth a read by all.
"This is a critical point in history. Time is running out to prepare for the next pandemic. We must act now with decisiveness and purpose. Someday, after the next pandemic has come and gone, a commission much like the 9/11 Commission will be charged with determining how well government, business, and public health leaders prepared the world for the catastrophe when they had clear warning. What will be the verdict?"
'Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs'
by Michael T. Osterholm, Mark Olshaker
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/30841977-deadliest-enemy
"Mother Nature is the greatest bioterrorist of them all, with no financial limitations or ethical compunctions."
"Republicans, of course, cloak themselves in the rhetoric of freedom and necessity and express concern about future generations. That the beast they would slay ultimately translates to the lives of American citizens, including some of the most vulnerable who depend on government social programs to which they enjoy legal, political, and moral entitlement, is irrelevant. Hatred of government is a disease with them. They loathe common purpose and project, especially when channeled through the state. Their hatred of government, it seems to me, is tantamount to hatred of country." Steven Johnston
http://contemporarycondition.blogspot.com/2011/08/why-do-republicans-hate-america.html (http://contemporarycondition.blogspot.com/2011/08/why-do-republicans-hate-america.html)
What is it with you and your worship of govt? Our Founders despised govt, that's why the one they created was tiny and toothless.
The govt you envision is one of great strength and wisdom, and son, there is no such animal and never has been and our Founders created one without intellect, while giving virtually all power to the State.
At some point it will dawn on you that govt is a hindrance to your health and prosperity because of the party's involved running it, the crony capitalist, the Marxist who thinks they knows what is best for the masses, all the while only the chosen few propagate. You will be sacrificed "For the greater good"!
You are nothing to that which you worship, your liberties and Freedoms be damned, they impede those you revere, they don't give a shit about you and your adoration, they see you as expendable because you won't put up a fight.
It's funny, you like to think of yourself as well read, problem is, you take the opinions of others for your own.
How about you take the time to read the words of our Founders themselves, read the Federalist Papers, they're quite self explanatory on their own, that's why they were put together, so even the simpleton could understand what they were forming.
Quote from: midcan5 on May 26, 2020, 05:58:38 AM
Tough question but I think there are answers and you see them in more homogeneous nations. Our diversity which we often brag about is a double edged sword in the sense it becomes them against us. Or 'them' is used as a scapegoat. Which leads nowhere. My wife and I were driving the neighborhood she grew up in recently and it is a sad sight. Homelessness and drugs have kills so many and create such problems. Our size too is an issue. Rural America has its advantages but it hides problems too. How do we deal with homelessness, we have lots. We are going to be diverse for a long time - maybe forever - but we must somehow find ways to include everyone and provide for everyone. What would you do?
Governance matters as this OP notes:
'The 17 best-governed countries in the world'
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/17-best-governed-countries-world-a7417096.html
Are you suggesting our diversity keeps the USA from being one of the best governed? I personally do not see the connection between diversity and being a republic.
I think we have to come to the realization we see the world differently. Government is certainly not the solution to all things but unless God decides enough is enough, we need a central governing authority to maintain our infrastructure, make sure our food supply exists and is safe, and that our basic utilities work and provide for us. In almost every complicated endeavor whether it be health or climate or flooding or distribution, it is government that provide that stuff. No one makes safe bridges because it is profitable. They make them because it they were not safe that all important government under law will take then to task. There is a fascinating site that may challenge you over government and its purpose. Personally I can't figure out why government has become the modern bogeyman? Would you rather autocracy, like China or Russia under Putin? No, those governments would be too primitive for my taste.
https://governmentisgood.com/
Also I have read Howard Zinn and personally I consider him an interesting historian and a moral thinker, he criticizes democrats same as republicans. He is a tough critic for the interested reader.
Last thought, I often find today's conservatives think of themselves in a libertarian framework. I find libertarian thought plain silly. But that's me. See this conservative writer and the piece below that, if interested.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/marxism-of-the-right/
This guy is tough.
http://web.inter.nl.net/users/Paul.Treanor/libertarian.html
Quote from: midcan5 on May 29, 2020, 07:49:20 AM
I think we have to come to the realization we see the world differently. Government is certainly not the solution to all things but unless God decides enough is enough, we need a central governing authority to maintain our infrastructure, make sure our food supply exists and is safe, and that our basic utilities work and provide for us. In almost every complicated endeavor whether it be health or climate or flooding or distribution, it is government that provide that stuff. No one makes safe bridges because it is profitable. They make them because it they were not safe that all important government under law will take then to task. There is a fascinating site that may challenge you over government and its purpose. Personally I can't figure out why government has become the modern bogeyman? Would you rather autocracy, like China or Russia under Putin? No, those governments would be too primitive for my taste.
https://governmentisgood.com/
Also I have read Howard Zinn and personally I consider him an interesting historian and a moral thinker, he criticizes democrats same as republicans. He is a tough critic for the interested reader.
Last thought, I often find today's conservatives think of themselves in a libertarian framework. I find libertarian thought plain silly. But that's me. See this conservative writer and the piece below that, if interested.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/marxism-of-the-right/
This guy is tough.
http://web.inter.nl.net/users/Paul.Treanor/libertarian.html
"Personally I can't figure out why government has become the modern bogeyman?"
Because in too many cases, especially those governments run by democrats, desire to go beyond the worthy endeavors you point out. Nowhere in your statement did you suggest government has the right to take away our freedoms and the pursuit of happiness.
Quote from: midcan5 on May 29, 2020, 07:49:20 AM
I think we have to come to the realization we see the world differently. Government is certainly not the solution to all things but unless God decides enough is enough, we need a central governing authority to maintain our infrastructure, make sure our food supply exists and is safe, and that our basic utilities work and provide for us. In almost every complicated endeavor whether it be health or climate or flooding or distribution, it is government that provide that stuff. No one makes safe bridges because it is profitable. They make them because it they were not safe that all important government under law will take then to task. There is a fascinating site that may challenge you over government and its purpose. Personally I can't figure out why government has become the modern bogeyman? Would you rather autocracy, like China or Russia under Putin? No, those governments would be too primitive for my taste.
https://governmentisgood.com/
Also I have read Howard Zinn and personally I consider him an interesting historian and a moral thinker, he criticizes democrats same as republicans. He is a tough critic for the interested reader.
Last thought, I often find today's conservatives think of themselves in a libertarian framework. I find libertarian thought plain silly. But that's me. See this conservative writer and the piece below that, if interested.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/marxism-of-the-right/
This guy is tough.
http://web.inter.nl.net/users/Paul.Treanor/libertarian.html
Have you ever once actually read our Founding Documents? Our Founders hated Govt, that's why they tied it hands with a Republican Govt, not a democracy.
The Right to this day still despises govt, it's the Marxist left that want to dictate what Freedoms and Liberties we should be allowed to have.
When in fact, if you actually understood our Bill of Rights, you'd know why no one trusts the left, including all the bull shit you post!
Quote from: midcan5 on May 29, 2020, 07:49:20 AM
I think we have to come to the realization we see the world differently. Government is certainly not the solution to all things but unless God decides enough is enough, we need a central governing authority to maintain our infrastructure, make sure our food supply exists and is safe, and that our basic utilities work and provide for us. In almost every complicated endeavor whether it be health or climate or flooding or distribution, it is government that provide that stuff. No one makes safe bridges because it is profitable. They make them because it they were not safe that all important government under law will take then to task. There is a fascinating site that may challenge you over government and its purpose. Personally I can't figure out why government has become the modern bogeyman? Would you rather autocracy, like China or Russia under Putin? No, those governments would be too primitive for my taste.
https://governmentisgood.com/
Also I have read Howard Zinn and personally I consider him an interesting historian and a moral thinker, he criticizes democrats same as republicans. He is a tough critic for the interested reader.
Last thought, I often find today's conservatives think of themselves in a libertarian framework. I find libertarian thought plain silly. But that's me. See this conservative writer and the piece below that, if interested.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/marxism-of-the-right/
This guy is tough.
http://web.inter.nl.net/users/Paul.Treanor/libertarian.html
From the "government is good" Web site you recommend, it is obvious from first inspection that the writer does not base his positions on the Founding documents, Constitution, and Bill of Rights of our Republic, but on his last 20 years of teaching government politics as it was when he started, with Government as the central authority and controller. Government today is much more than the Founders ever intended wrt education, social and moral issues, and such. Those were always intended to be dealt with by the individual States. We need to have some "national laws" that are to be determined by Legislative branch, constitutionally sound as determined by the Supreme Court, and enforced by the Executive branch; but within the framework of a Constitutionally limited national Government and sovereign States in a Republic, NOT a Democracy, and certainly not from a Libertarian position.
I'm currently reading The Color of Law and Why We're Polarized. Good stuff.
Without good government you have anarchy you see that now on our streets, and while I consider myself an independent, the democrats have done things that actually help all Americans and not just the privileged. Labor laws and Social Security as well as Medicare are examples. We are not a third world nation because our government from the beginning worked to solve the issues of community in a complex world. And I've read lots. Just pulled Bailyn's book on our origins from my bookcase to glance at now.
For the serious Idea reader check out Peter Watson's books on ideas and history. The books quoted below will challenge you too.
I've read too much I could bore you with my many lists of readings.
'That's Not What They Meant!: Reclaiming the Founding Fathers from America's Right Wing' by Michael Austin
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15897043-that-s-not-what-they-meant
'Injustices: The Supreme Court's History of Comforting the Comfortable and Afflicting the Afflicted' Ian Millhiser
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22715946-injustices
'The End of the Myth: From the Frontier to the Border Wall in the Mind of America' Greg Grandin
"Corporatism reappeared in the 1960s in such places as the British union movement, the American business group known as the Round Table and its imitative Canadian equivalent, the Business Council on National Issues. The last two can claim to have set much of their countries' contemporary economic and social agendas. The banding together of citizens into interest groups becomes corporatist, that is to say dangerous, only when the interest group loses its specific focus and seeks to override the democratic system. In the case of the British unions and the North American business councils, their every intervention into public affairs has been intended to undermine the democratic participation of individual citizens." p472 'Voltaire's Bastards: The Dictatorship of Reason in the West' John Ralston Saul
[I find I am censored on conservative sites as my opinions are mine, I follow no ideology, hopefully some readers and are challenged to think on their own.]
Quote from: midcan5 on June 01, 2020, 04:31:54 AM
Without good government you have anarchy you see that now on our streets, and while I consider myself an independent, the democrats have done things that actually help all Americans and not just the privileged. Labor laws and Social Security as well as Medicare are examples. We are not a third world nation because our government from the beginning worked to solve the issues of community in a complex world. And I've read lots. Just pulled Bailyn's book on our origins from my bookcase to glance at now.
For the serious Idea reader check out Peter Watson's books on ideas and history. The books quoted below will challenge you too.
I've read too much I could bore you with my many lists of readings.
'That's Not What They Meant!: Reclaiming the Founding Fathers from America's Right Wing' by Michael Austin
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15897043-that-s-not-what-they-meant
'Injustices: The Supreme Court's History of Comforting the Comfortable and Afflicting the Afflicted' Ian Millhiser
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22715946-injustices
'The End of the Myth: From the Frontier to the Border Wall in the Mind of America' Greg Grandin
"Corporatism reappeared in the 1960s in such places as the British union movement, the American business group known as the Round Table and its imitative Canadian equivalent, the Business Council on National Issues. The last two can claim to have set much of their countries' contemporary economic and social agendas. The banding together of citizens into interest groups becomes corporatist, that is to say dangerous, only when the interest group loses its specific focus and seeks to override the democratic system. In the case of the British unions and the North American business councils, their every intervention into public affairs has been intended to undermine the democratic participation of individual citizens." p472 'Voltaire's Bastards: The Dictatorship of Reason in the West' John Ralston Saul
[I find I am censored on conservative sites as my opinions are mine, I follow no ideology, hopefully some readers and are challenged to think on their own.]
Here's a thought. Read and understand our Founding Documents, then research why they came to write them. Then read things that oppose your own bias, it's this contradiction that allows you to expand your mind.
All the shit you post that you've read, only affirms your own biases, proving you are far more ignorant than you want to believe.
Quote from: Solar on June 01, 2020, 05:10:05 AM
Here's a thought. Read and understand our Founding Documents, then research why they came to write them. Then read things that oppose your own bias, it's this contradiction that allows you to expand your mind.
All the shit you post that you've read, only affirms your own biases, proving you are far more ignorant than you want to believe.
These founding documents you keep reffing to are not Holy Writ. Some of the authors were tax cheats, smugglers, and deadbeats. Adams owed creditors in Britain ten thousand pounds and walked away from his debts. Hancock owed ten times as much, plus he was a smuggler. The rebellion grew out of the Seven Years War which was fought on behalf of American merchants. The British felt it was unfair that the British should bear the burden and the Americans should get a free ride.
In the aftermath, the rebels behaved like the looters we see in the riots going on now. They attacked and robbed law abiding neighbours and stole their property and drove them into exile. "They gave up everything save honour."
While his troops were reduced to eating their boots at Valley Forge, General Washington's main complaint regarding the cuisine was he had to drink watered rum in place of wine with his meals.
I am looking forward to reading David Brooks new book, The Second Mountain: The Quest for a Moral Life. I watched an interview with Mr. Brooks over the weekend and he was lamenting the decline in civility and descency in American political discourse.
Quote from: Tory Potter on June 01, 2020, 07:19:57 AM
These founding documents you keep reffing to are not Holy Writ. Some of the authors were tax cheats, smugglers, and deadbeats. Adams owed creditors in Britain ten thousand pounds and walked away from his debts. Hancock owed ten times as much, plus he was a smuggler. The rebellion grew out of the Seven Years War which was fought on behalf of American merchants. The British felt it was unfair that the British should bear the burden and the Americans should get a free ride.
In the aftermath, the rebels behaved like the looters we see in the riots going on now. They attacked and robbed law abiding neighbours and stole their property and drove them into exile. "They gave up everything save honour."
While his troops were reduced to eating their boots at Valley Forge, General Washington's main complaint regarding the cuisine was he had to drink watered rum in place of wine with his meals.
So that's the bull shit they taught you in the Canadian school system? Son, there is by far a lot more to the story, as to why they rebelled against England, hence our Declaration of Independence, and how the British Crown was trying to destroy a movement that actually wanted to stay loyal to Britain.
In the end, the Brits were taxing a people they were suppressing and imprisoning, hence the revolution.
The leftist spin you were taught is of no real surprise considering Canada is still loyal to the Crown.
The Price of Freedom
But the price of freedom can be dear, as it was to many of those who dared sign their names to the document declaring this a free land. Below is an accounting of what their signatures cost some of our founding fathers.
Francis Lewis, New York: His wife was captured by the British in 1776 and later died as a result of her captivity. Lewis himself lived out his years in relative poverty, having sacrificed his independent fortune to the cause of patriotism during the War of Independence.
Phillip Livingston, New York: He and his family had to flee their home to escape the British army and never returned.
Lewis Morris, New York: His family fled the approaching British army, which plundered his estate, destroyed hundreds of acres of crops, and took his livestock.
John Hart, New Jersey: Hessians destroyed Hart's farm, livestock, and other property. The hardships brought on by the destruction caused Hart's wife to become sick, and she died as her husband was trying to reach her. Hart was forced to flee into the woods and slept in caves when the British troops invaded New Jersey. His children were forced into hiding and sought refuge with family and friends.
Richard Stockton, New Jersey: He was dragged from his bed by a group of royalists and imprisoned in New York, where he was denied basic necessities. He was finally released, but he had endured so much suffering that he never fully recovered. His fortune was nearly wiped out, his lands ruined, his papers and library were burned, and his livestock seized. For a while, he was forced to depend on the good will of his friends for survival.
George Clymer, Pennsylvania: His family eluded British soldiers who ransacked their house. Clymer was in Philadelphia during this time. When British troops arrived there, they found where he lived and started to tear the building down and only stopped when told the house didn't belong to Clymer.
William Ellery, Rhode Island: His house was burned down and the rest of his property was destroyed while the British army occupied Newport.
Edward Rutledge, Arthur Middleton, and Thomas Heyward, South Carolina: All three were imprisoned at St. Augustine, Fla., for almost a year.
Thomas Nelson Jr., Virginia: He lost his fortune aiding the war effort and died a poor man.
John Morton, Pennsylvania: On his deathbed, he asked those in attendance to tell his enemies—those who didn't forgive him for voting in favor of independence—that one day it would be acknowledged that casting his vote was the most important act of his life.
Abraham Clark, New Jersey: Two of Clark's sons were officers in the army. They were captured by the British and confined to the prison ship Jersey, where thousands of American captives died. One was held in solitary confinement and given no food. Reportedly, Clark still refused to change his position and support the crown when the British offered to spare his sons' lives if he did so. His headstone reads:
Firm and decided as a patriot,
zealous and faithful as a friend to the public,
he loved his country, and adhered to her cause
in the darkest hours of her struggles
against oppression.
https://americanprofile.com/articles/the-fate-of-our-founding-fathers/
Rebelling against the lawful government is an act of Treason. The mistreatment of prisoners and especially the families of the rebels was an atrocity.
Where you stand on any issue depends on where you are sitting. It could be argued that the loyalists were the patriots. They were law abiding citizens who should not have been made to suffer for their love of their country. They made up a majority of the people in the colonies. Those who wilfully acted to overthrow the government by violence were subject to imprisonment, if not execution, as proscribed by law. They knew or should have known the risks they were taking. However, their families should not have been made to suffer. The US government applied these principles a few years later in the Civil War.
The main issues that led to the rebellion should have been dealt with legally. There was no tyranny, especially by the King. The decisions were made by Parliament. When you don't like the decision of the government, you lobby to reverse it, not overthrow it. The violent overthrow of the legitamate government is treason and the antisithis of conservatism.
This was a different time with different values. Slavery was an acceptable part of society, except for the slaves that is. There were no rules governing the treatment of prisoners. This was universal. The rebels may have lost were it not for the alliance with France which, ironically was a real tyranny.
The colonists tried that route for 13 years.
Quote from: Tory Potter on June 01, 2020, 07:38:18 AM
I am looking forward to reading David Brooks new book, The Second Mountain: The Quest for a Moral Life. I watched an interview with Mr. Brooks over the weekend and he was lamenting the decline in civility and descency in American political discourse.
which he himself is responsible for bringing much of that incivility and indecency on.
Quote from: Tory Potter on June 01, 2020, 08:46:39 AM
Rebelling against the lawful government is an act of Treason. The mistreatment of prisoners and especially the families of the rebels was an atrocity.
Where you stand on any issue depends on where you are sitting. It could be argued that the loyalists were the patriots. They were law abiding citizens who should not have been made to suffer for their love of their country. They made up a majority of the people in the colonies. Those who wilfully acted to overthrow the government by violence were subject to imprisonment, if not execution, as proscribed by law. They knew or should have known the risks they were taking. However, their families should not have been made to suffer. The US government applied these principles a few years later in the Civil War.
The main issues that led to the rebellion should have been dealt with legally. There was no tyranny, especially by the King. The decisions were made by Parliament. When you don't like the decision of the government, you lobby to reverse it, not overthrow it. The violent overthrow of the legitamate government is treason and the antisithis of conservatism.
This was a different time with different values. Slavery was an acceptable part of society, except for the slaves that is. There were no rules governing the treatment of prisoners. This was universal. The rebels may have lost were it not for the alliance with France which, ironically was a real tyranny.
How is it possible that 13 tiny colonies could ever conceive of overthrowing England? Sad, your education has failed you.
One other point, overthrowing an oppressive govt is at the very core of Conservatism!!!
Quote from: Tory Potter on June 01, 2020, 08:46:39 AM
Rebelling against the lawful government is an act of Treason. The mistreatment of prisoners and especially the families of the rebels was an atrocity.
Where you stand on any issue depends on where you are sitting. It could be argued that the loyalists were the patriots. They were law abiding citizens who should not have been made to suffer for their love of their country. They made up a majority of the people in the colonies. Those who wilfully acted to overthrow the government by violence were subject to imprisonment, if not execution, as proscribed by law. They knew or should have known the risks they were taking. However, their families should not have been made to suffer. The US government applied these principles a few years later in the Civil War.
The main issues that led to the rebellion should have been dealt with legally. There was no tyranny, especially by the King. The decisions were made by Parliament. When you don't like the decision of the government, you lobby to reverse it, not overthrow it. The violent overthrow of the legitamate government is treason and the antisithis of conservatism.
This was a different time with different values. Slavery was an acceptable part of society, except for the slaves that is. There were no rules governing the treatment of prisoners. This was universal. The rebels may have lost were it not for the alliance with France which, ironically was a real tyranny.
Thanks for describing what it was - a revolution.
Quote from: Solar on June 01, 2020, 09:01:36 AM
How is it possible that 13 tiny colonies could ever conceive of overthrowing England? Sad, your education has failed you.
One other point, overthrowing an oppressive govt is at the very core of Conservatism!!!
They over threw the governments of the colonies. As for trying for 13 years, sometimes you have to accept you can't always get what you want. The rebels were, after all a minority. Their success was partly due to the help of a real tyranny, the French.
The very core of conservatism came out of the struggle over the succession. Conservatives have always stood for loyalty to the country and the rule of Law.
Quote from: Tory Potter on June 01, 2020, 09:10:07 AM
They over threw the governments of the colonies. As for trying for 13 years, sometimes you have to accept you can't always get what you want. The rebels were, after all a minority. Their success was partly due to the help of a real tyranny, the French.
The very core of conservatism came out of the struggle over the succession. Conservatives have always stood for loyalty to the country and the rule of Law.
Yet the 13 colonies ratified the Constitution, all because England's oppression. Taxation without Representation, equates to slavery.
Inspite of all of the above, the success of the Americans in the War of Independence has been of immence benifit to the USA,the UK and Canada. The UK and Canada have the greatest possible ally and partner in the US and inspite of the friendly debates over ancient history,(like when you lost the War of 1812 :thumbsup:), we could never have anticipated a better friend. Canada is the American's largest trading partner and vice versa.
Considering the state of the UK and Canada...our revolution was God inspired...God protected. About the same time was the French Revolution which was demon inspired.
Quote from: Calypso Jones on June 01, 2020, 08:51:10 AM
which he himself is responsible for bringing much of that incivility and indecency on.
I'm curious. How so?
He is no conservative...He may be republican...about as much as Jennifer rubin and Ana Navarro. LOL
and he is a never trumper Blaming trump for everything just as the dems do.
rabid.
Little blurb in there about Zinn.
https://archives.frontpagemag.com/fpm/hard-indoctrination-soft-indoctrination-and-books-david-swindle/
https://archives.frontpagemag.com/fpm/dangerous-newcomer-lefts-war-against-trump-america-discover-networks/
https://archives.frontpagemag.com/fpm/david-brooks-historical-revisionism-paul-gottfried/
https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2019/03/david-brooks-destructive-call-reparations-christopher-degroot/
David Brooks: 'I was once a socialist'
https://hotair.com/archives/john-s-2/2019/12/06/david-brooks-socialist/
Posted: December 6, 2019
Of course, this being David Brooks, his idea of an ideal capitalist state might include the nations of Scandinavia ... Brooks says he began to change his mind about socialism while working as a reporter. ... David Brooks isn't usually my cup of tea but yesterday he wrote an opinion piece about his own youthful socialism which I was happy to see appearing at the NY Times...
Now the nuclear family is insufficient?
https://hotair.com/archives/jazz-shaw/2020/02/17/now-nuclear-family-insufficient/
Posted: February 17, 2020
The great defect of the nuclear family, Brooks asserts, is that if there's a crisis — a death, divorce, job loss, poor school grades — there's no backup team. ... In a powerful essay for the Atlantic — "The Nuclear Family Was a Mistake" — New York Times columnist David Brooks argues that the family structure we've held up as the cultural ideal for the past half century has been a catastrophe for many... ... You can take your pick between the original piece by David Brooks or the hearty endorsement it received from Robert J. Samuelson...
NYT's Brooks: Let's face it, we drive traffic by writing "something nasty" about Trump
https://hotair.com/archives/ed-morrissey/2019/06/1...face-drive-traffic-writing-something-nasty-trump/
Posted: June 18, 2019
In a one-on-one interview with CBN's Chief Political Analyst David Brody, New York Times Columnist David Brooks admits that when it comes to the media industry, President Trump has been "good for business." ... And while Brooks says his NYT editors tell him to write what he wants, Brooks knows what pays the bills, baby ... Don't get David Brooks wrong...
Thank you for clarifying. I confess I don't know that much about his history.
The political philosophy that you call conservatism seems more theology than political science; RE- the theory that the Constitution and the Bill of Rights come frome God. That is similar to the idea that our Head of State is elected by God. ie. the Coronation ceremony. Nobody actually believes she was annointed by God but it is good theatre and a long cherished tradition.
Quote from: Tory Potter on June 01, 2020, 10:34:44 AM
Thank you for clarifying. I confess I don't know that much about his history.
The political philosophy that you call conservatism seems more theology than political science; RE- the theory that the Constitution and the Bill of Rights come frome God. That is similar to the idea that our Head of State is elected by God. ie. the Coronation ceremony. Nobody actually believes she was annointed by God but it is good theatre and a long cherished tradition.
No, our Rights come from God, not govt. Understanding this will make things much easier as you traverse threads here.
Quote from: Tory Potter on June 01, 2020, 10:34:44 AM
Thank you for clarifying. I confess I don't know that much about his history.
The political philosophy that you call conservatism seems more theology than political science; RE- the theory that the Constitution and the Bill of Rights come frome God. That is similar to the idea that our Head of State is elected by God. ie. the Coronation ceremony. Nobody actually believes she was annointed by God but it is good theatre and a long cherished tradition.
conservativism isn't theology. It's a political philosophy. Individual rights, some God given. Such as right to protect ourselves. Small government, them staying out of our lives. Getting out of our way. Respect for life, liberty and pursuit of happiness...OURs NOT Theirs. Government's business is to protect us from foreign invasion and guarantee OUR rights, not theirs.
I can understand your confusion when you read leftist idiocy like this....
Conservatism is a political and social philosophy promoting arrogance,prejudice and petty behaviour. The central tenets of conservatism include social conformity to harmful traditions, the delusion of loyalty, the delusion of hierarchy, the social construct of authority, and the idea that having property rights means that you can trample over people because "it's my house".--Wiki
wiki is leftist. of course this is how they define it. LOLOL
Leftists will define themselves by their actions..Often their words when their guard is down. Just watch Clintons, Obamas and other leftists. Pelosi etc etc.
or read some of this:
https://archives.frontpagemag.com/fpm/horowitz-conservatives-must-fight-fire-fire-frontpagemagcom/
https://conservativehardliner.com/what-is-conservatism
Quote from: Solar on June 01, 2020, 11:11:46 AM
https://conservativehardliner.com/what-is-conservatism
thanks, only read part of it but had to come back to tell you ...excellent.
Quote from: Calypso Jones on June 01, 2020, 11:12:45 AM
thanks, only read part of it but had to come back to tell you ...excellent.
Thank you, it's a bit of a work in progress.
Quote from: Calypso Jones on June 01, 2020, 11:03:46 AM
conservativism isn't theology. It's a political philosophy. Individual rights, some God given. Such as right to protect ourselves. Small government, them staying out of our lives. Getting out of our way. Respect for life, liberty and pursuit of happiness...OURs NOT Theirs. Government's business is to protect us from foreign invasion and guarantee OUR rights, not theirs.
If I understand you correctly, rights, as opposed to the Bill of Rights, come from God. If the document came from God, it would not have been neccessary to make so many amendments. I understood the rights are for the protection of people, not government.
Quote from: Tory Potter on June 01, 2020, 11:31:42 AM
If I understand you correctly, rights, as opposed to the Bill of Rights, come from God. If the document came from God, it would not have been neccessary to make so many amendments. I understood the rights are for the protection of people, not government.
The nature of man is that we need 'amendments'. Don't forget God gave moses the ten commandments and the the 'law' for the Israelites to separate them from the heathens around them. Sorta like us too.
Quote from: Solar on June 01, 2020, 11:25:49 AM
Thank you, it's a bit of a work in progress.
did you write that??
Quote from: Calypso Jones on June 01, 2020, 11:49:38 AM
did you write that??
Yes, over the last two years, like I say, it's still a work in progress. I stopped there because I didn't want to get redundant because without giving examples, anything I wrote would just be a repeat.
But you just gave me an idea. I could do an article attachment, expanding on what Conservatism is by citing great Statesmen of the past and examples of their deeds.
Thanks, I had writers block. :thumbsup:
Glad to help.
Quote from: Calypso Jones on June 01, 2020, 11:49:11 AM
The nature of man is that we need 'amendments'. Don't forget God gave moses the ten commandments and the the 'law' for the Israelites to separate them from the heathens around them. Sorta like us too.
Who are you calling a heathen? :biggrin:
I was glad this thread had so many views even if a bit off topic. For a slight change of book topic, check out the book linked below. It will change the way you see COVID-19 and our investments in health care and research. While it is from 2017 there is plenty that applies to today.
"There can be no greater bang for the buck than investing in what I call a game-changing influenza vaccine. In any given year, or even in any given decade, the probability of a major influenza pandemic is low. As a possibility for some unknown point in the future, it is virtually a dead certainty."
'Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs' by Michael T. Osterholm, Mark Olshaker
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/30841977-deadliest-enemy
"Mother Nature is the greatest bioterrorist of them all, with no financial limitations or ethical compunctions."
I don't know if you can name 'mother nature' as the ultimate culprit. She gets a lot of help from stupid men, evil men and greedy men.
Mother Nature or nature or the natural world hasn't any feelings and the research doctor who wrote that line looks at the spread of disease a bit different than most of us. It is true that these viruses are part of nature that can cause great pain. They usually pass from animals to humans and it is something that is changing as the world population grows and remote areas become no more. The book is fascinating check it out.
Quote from: Calypso Jones on June 08, 2020, 07:43:30 AM
I don't know if you can name 'mother nature' as the ultimate culprit. She gets a lot of help from stupid men, evil men and greedy men.
Nailed it!!!
Blaming Mother Nature is a ludicrous, just as well claim God was backing the Devil. Point is, all life has a purpose, and man has survived because we have a body with the ability to fight back, which only makes us stronger, sounds like a solid plan, right?
I see vaccines as both good and bad, but the ones they're working on now go beyond the cellular level, literally rewriting our genetic code.
Think about that, man does not have the wisdom of the Creator, he has no clue how life actually works and to mess with the recipe of life, is playing Russian Roulette with a full clip.
Damn good post.
Hi all, been off for a bit. We can call it 'mother nature' or life or the way we live today in a more crowded world, but there is no question COVID-19 like most viruses passed from nature to mankind. But that gets us off topic from history. My bad. I lent the book to a neighbor who thought every one should read it and I agree. I'll leave it there and get back to history.
I saw this author on TV yesterday and was impressed a republican who worked to make the party what is today has second thoughts. Anyone read it? I'll check it out eventually but busy now. Be safe out there.
'How The Republican Party Became Donald Trump'
Quote from: Tory Potter on June 01, 2020, 09:19:11 AM
Inspite of all of the above, the success of the Americans in the War of Independence has been of immence benifit to the USA,the UK and Canada. The UK and Canada have the greatest possible ally and partner in the US and inspite of the friendly debates over ancient history,(like when you lost the War of 1812 :thumbsup:), we could never have anticipated a better friend. Canada is the American's largest trading partner and vice versa.
Personally, soon as Trump finishes the wall on the southern border I hope he starts on the wall at the northern border.
Quote from: Tory Potter on June 01, 2020, 11:31:42 AM
If I understand you correctly, rights, as opposed to the Bill of Rights, come from God. If the document came from God, it would not have been neccessary to make so many amendments. I understood the rights are for the protection of people, not government.
The necessary part came about because the people did not trust the government to always protect those God given rights. Just because God gave man those rights does not mean government can not take them away. Just look at history. The U.S. when founded knew we had to be a constitutional republic in order to survive and keep those rights, which is also why many of us can not stand it when someone calls us a democracy.
Quote from: Possum on June 27, 2020, 04:49:44 AM
The necessary part came about because the people did not trust the government to always protect those God given rights. Just because God gave man those rights does not mean government can not take them away. Just look at history. The U.S. when founded knew we had to be a constitutional republic in order to survive and keep those rights, which is also why many of us can not stand it when someone calls us a democracy.
:thumbsup:
Quote from: Possum on June 27, 2020, 04:49:44 AM
The necessary part came about because the people did not trust the government to always protect those God given rights. Just because God gave man those rights does not mean government can not take them away. Just look at history. The U.S. when founded knew we had to be a constitutional republic in order to survive and keep those rights, which is also why many of us can not stand it when someone calls us a democracy.
And notice how many democrats refer to our country as a democracy. That is their wet dream.
Quote from: supsalemgr on June 27, 2020, 11:57:05 AM
And notice how many democrats refer to our country as a democracy. That is their wet dream.
:thumbup: democracy = mob rule
If democracy equals 'mob rule' and republicanism 'oligarchy', which do we prefer? I think we can see the problem in each. The founders divided powers so as to counter oligarchy and they added democratic processes to maintain order and fairness. Words are only words, it is what comes from the actions of people and their government that matter.
This is a fascinating read, it centers us, the US that is.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15897043-that-s-not-what-they-meant
Quote from: midcan5 on July 06, 2020, 03:39:42 AM
If democracy equals 'mob rule' and republicanism 'oligarchy', which do we prefer? I think we can see the problem in each. The founders divided powers so as to counter oligarchy and they added democratic processes to maintain order and fairness. Words are only words, it is what comes from the actions of people and their government that matter.
This is a fascinating read, it centers us, the US that is.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15897043-that-s-not-what-they-meant
Wow, nothing like opening with an ignorant lie! We are not an Oligarchy, we are a Republic, you idiot troll!
A Republic by design, sets constraints on govt, while a democracy enhances the power of the Federal govt as a weapon for the mob.
You need to read some actual history books and leave the opinion pieces to the trash heap of history!
Quote from: Solar on July 06, 2020, 05:35:01 AM
Wow, nothing like opening with an ignorant lie! We are not an Oligarchy, we are a Republic, you idiot troll!
A Republic by design, sets constraints on govt, while a democracy enhances the power of the Federal govt as a weapon for the mob.
You need to read some actual history books and leave the opinion pieces to the trash heap of history!
Most republics in the world have a strong, if not overbearing central government. Even the US federal government has grown in power. Most republics are decidedly lacking in input from the population they rule. Every marxist government is a republic as are many theocracies.
The United States is unusual in the degree of citizen participation in government. I am not clear that the success of the US is due to its being a republic or is it due to a deeper cultural condition.
Quote from: Tory Potter on July 06, 2020, 04:06:56 PM
Most republics in the world have a strong, if not overbearing central government. Even the US federal government has grown in power. Most republics are decidedly lacking in input from the population they rule. Every marxist government is a republic as are many theocracies.
The United States is unusual in the degree of citizen participation in government. I am not clear that the success of the US is due to its being a republic or is it due to a deeper cultural condition.
When the states started accepting money from the federal government the republic started to decline and the feds grew. Just look at our public schools. Why would the federal government set the agenda instead off the states? Why would the states let them? All has to do with federal money, states sold out.
Quote from: Tory Potter on July 06, 2020, 04:06:56 PM
Most republics in the world have a strong, if not overbearing central government. Even the US federal government has grown in power. Most republics are decidedly lacking in input from the population they rule. Every marxist government is a republic as are many theocracies.
The United States is unusual in the degree of citizen participation in government. I am not clear that the success of the US is due to its being a republic or is it due to a deeper cultural condition.
Merely calling oneself a Republic, means absolutely nothing if absent a Bill of Rights. This is where you fail to grasp why the US is by far the strongest Nation in the history of man.
It has to do with the simple fact, our Founders understood why govts fail, the power becomes established to serve the chosen few.
To understand our system, you need to read how we kept our govt in check and the States reserved certain Rights, and the people have retained Gods Unalienable Rights Govt can't interfere with.
Our Rights do not come from Govt, they come from God. Govt is merely the mechanism created to protect said Rights.
Quote from: Solar on July 06, 2020, 04:24:23 PM
This is where you fail to grasp why the US is by far the strongest Nation in the history of man.
The US is the strongest nation in the world because of the contributions of a German, Einstein, some Hungarians, Teller, Szilard, and Wigner, and Italian, Fermi, and a whole lot of American and Canadian phycists who created the atomic bomb. The US has the ability to kill everyone on earth.
God does not care if a person is an American, Ethiopian, Chinese or Thai. God certainly doesn't care about politics. God is only interested if a person is good or evil.
Quote from: Tory Potter on July 06, 2020, 04:49:44 PM
The US is the strongest nation in the world because of the contributions of a German, Einstein, some Hungarians, Teller, Szilard, and Wigner, and Italian, Fermi, and a whole lot of American and Canadian phycists who created the atomic bomb. The US has the ability to kill everyone on earth.
God does not care if a person is an American, Ethiopian, Chinese or Thai. God certainly doesn't care about politics. God is only interested if a person is good or evil.
What do think made America? We are the world, we have always taken in the best and brightest minds who seek of Freedom and Liberty. It was our foundation of Freedom and Liberty that attracts people from around the globe, the ability to achieve ones greatest dreams.
It is the absence of govt that allows our capitalist system to prosper. Even the lowliest man can achieve great things here.
Again, do you understand why Our Republic is second to none? The key is Gods Law, the Law of Nature, not an oppressive govt, the ones the left want to create as they chip away at our Rights.
Quote from: Solar on July 06, 2020, 05:04:43 PM
What do think made America? We are the world, we have always taken in the best and brightest minds who seek of Freedom and Liberty. It was our foundation of Freedom and Liberty that attracts people from around the globe, the ability to achieve ones greatest dreams.
It is the absence of govt that allows our capitalist system to prosper. Even the lowliest man can achieve great things here.
Again, do you understand why Our Republic is second to none? The key is Gods Law, the Law of Nature, not an oppressive govt, the ones the left want to create as they chip away at our Rights.
That's just what I said. It is not that the US is a Republic. It is because it is the US. It is ingrained in the American culture.
Quote from: Tory Potter on July 06, 2020, 05:17:08 PM
That's just what I said. It is not that the US is a Republic. It is because it is the US. It is ingrained in the American culture.
Oh Jeez,! Our culture is based on our Republic! :rolleyes:
Quote from: Tory Potter on July 06, 2020, 04:49:44 PM
The US is the strongest nation in the world because of the contributions of a German, Einstein, some Hungarians, Teller, Szilard, and Wigner, and Italian, Fermi, and a whole lot of American and Canadian phycists who created the atomic bomb. The US has the ability to kill everyone on earth.
God does not care if a person is an American, Ethiopian, Chinese or Thai. God certainly doesn't care about politics. God is only interested if a person is good or evil.
Yet they all pray to their God to live here.
Quote from: Tory Potter on July 06, 2020, 04:49:44 PM
The US is the strongest nation in the world because of the contributions of a German, Einstein, some Hungarians, Teller, Szilard, and Wigner, and Italian, Fermi, and a whole lot of American and Canadian phycists who created the atomic bomb. The US has the ability to kill everyone on earth.
God does not care if a person is an American, Ethiopian, Chinese or Thai. God certainly doesn't care about politics. God is only interested if a person is good or evil.
We're the strongest because God has blessed us because our founders respected and honored The One True God. And so did the majority of our people. We were settled by people seeking religious freedom.
All the rest springs from that.
Quote from: taxed on July 06, 2020, 06:15:05 PM
Yet they all pray to their God to live here.
And many have to do it in hiding.
Hi all, I thought I mentioned this history book but don't see the post. It is a deep and complex look into our history concerning expansion and war with Mexico, as well as America's treatment of native Americans. It will be a hard read for many. History isn't always rosy.
'The End of the Myth: From the Frontier to the Border Wall in the Mind of America' Greg Grandin
But that said this pandemic is causing my wife and I to be wanderers of sorts. Seeing grandkids at a distance etc starts to get old. Now we lose ourselves on back roads. So enough TV too, back to re-read a few favorite novels. Any Cormac McCarthy fans out there? We Irish - partly Irish - love words and he is amazing. So I thought time to reread Blood Meridian. Be safe out there.
"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am." Cormac McCarthy, All the Pretty Horses
"You think when you wake up in the mornin yesterday don't count. But yesterday is all that does count. What else is there? Your life is made out of the days it's made out of. Nothin else." Cormac McCarthy, No Country for Old Men
"People were always getting ready for tomorrow. I didn't believe in that. Tomorrow wasn't getting ready for them. It didn't even know they were there." Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Quote from: midcan5 on July 12, 2020, 09:02:37 AM
Hi all, I thought I mentioned this history book but don't see the post. It is a deep and complex look into our history concerning expansion and war with Mexico, as well as America's treatment of native Americans. It will be a hard read for many. History isn't always rosy.
'The End of the Myth: From the Frontier to the Border Wall in the Mind of America' Greg Grandin
But that said this pandemic is causing my wife and I to be wanderers of sorts. Seeing grandkids at a distance etc starts to get old. Now we lose ourselves on back roads. So enough TV too, back to re-read a few favorite novels. Any Cormac McCarthy fans out there? We Irish - partly Irish - love words and he is amazing. So I thought time to reread Blood Meridian. Be safe out there.
"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am." Cormac McCarthy, All the Pretty Horses
"You think when you wake up in the mornin yesterday don't count. But yesterday is all that does count. What else is there? Your life is made out of the days it's made out of. Nothin else." Cormac McCarthy, No Country for Old Men
"People were always getting ready for tomorrow. I didn't believe in that. Tomorrow wasn't getting ready for them. It didn't even know they were there." Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Why are you ignoring replies directly attributed to your previous posts?
Quote from: Solar on July 12, 2020, 09:27:11 AM
Why are you ignoring replies directly attributed to your previous posts?
Because he can not back up what he believes. No one can. Too much of what the liberals want is too immoral to defend. Too much of what he says, might as well come from fairy tale books, it is like a theory that can not withstand the scrutiny of looking for truth in it. Sure he can provide fake charts and phony graphs which "proves" his point, but again when one digs into it, the truth always proves them wrong.
The best example I can think of is the fact every liberal defends socialism, even though it has failed every time. Even though it has the history of millions of deaths. Even though everywhere it is implanted it cause undue hardships and pain. Liberal will always tell you, it has not been tried by the right people, as if they would be the chosen ones if only given the chance. There is no government that is more immoral than socialism, and yet liberals want it. How can you defend that?
After reading his posts and others like his, the only answer I think he could have is "well, That's how I feel"
I didn't think he would answer so I helped him out.
Quote from: Possum on July 12, 2020, 01:10:15 PM
Because he can not back up what he believes. No one can. Too much of what the liberals want is too immoral to defend. Too much of what he says, might as well come from fairy tale books, it is like a theory that can not withstand the scrutiny of looking for truth in it. Sure he can provide fake charts and phony graphs which "proves" his point, but again when one digs into it, the truth always proves them wrong.
The best example I can think of is the fact every liberal defends socialism, even though it has failed every time. Even though it has the history of millions of deaths. Even though everywhere it is implanted it cause undue hardships and pain. Liberal will always tell you, it has not been tried by the right people, as if they would be the chosen ones if only given the chance. There is no government that is more immoral than socialism, and yet liberals want it. How can you defend that?
After reading his posts and others like his, the only answer I think he could have is "well, That's how I feel"
I didn't think he would answer so I helped him out.
I love how they point to Europe as an example of working socialism, yet when I look at Europe, all I see is failed socialism on the verge of communism, or worse yet, Sharia law.
Socialism never works, because it's the seed of Marxism, the end result is what we see in Chinese oppression, or N/K, Venezuela etc.
Quote from: Solar on July 12, 2020, 01:31:39 PM
I love how they point to Europe as an example of working socialism, yet when I look at Europe, all I see is failed socialism on the verge of communism, or worse yet, Sharia law.
Socialism never works, because it's the seed of Marxism, the end result is what we see in Chinese oppression, or N/K, Venezuela etc.
One of these days we will see a mass exodus from Europe. Many might even go to Russia as it will be better than the Sharia law that is coming.
Quote from: Possum on July 12, 2020, 01:35:42 PM
One of these days we will see a mass exodus from Europe. Many might even go to Russia as it will be better than the Sharia law that is coming.
I could deal with Russians in the countryside. I've watched a lot of videos of people in the country farming communities.
For them little has changed in the last couple of hundred years, very down to earth people just eking out a living and enjoying the little things in life along with the hardships..
Solar, everyone has their opinion on any number of subjects, because someone disagrees with me or thinks I'm mistaken I can't change their mind, that is something they would have to do with continued reading and understanding. It is education and the epiphanies that occasionally come to us as we grow. Am I wrong sometimes, of course but if you notice I do provide links and other information to support my views.
Take as an example Possum's assumption that all liberals defend socialism. Do they? I'd have to know what he means by socialism. But then he answers or assumes, claims it fails every time. Wouldn't Finland and Sweden be considered socialism and are they failures? Is not socialism like most political isms a goal or method rather than a hard and fast plan? Easy definitions and simple categories help us understand and communicate but the world is a complicated place and we need to be clear and work out what works and what we mean. People can disagree with me and if they think I really blundered they can message me I'll always reply.
From quick Google search:
"Socialism is an economic and political system. It is an economic theory of social organization. It believes that the means of making, moving, and trading wealth should be owned or controlled by the workers. ... People who agree with this type of system are called socialists."
Someone started a quote thread, I have been collecting them since 'autoexec' batch file started you IBM PC. So a few below for thought on topic.
"Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." John Kenneth Galbraith
"In 1929 Federal, state, and municipal governments accounted for about 8 percent of all economic activity in the United States. By the 1960s that figure was between 20 and 25 percent, far exceeding that in India, a socialist country. The National Science Foundation reckoned that federal funds were paying for 90 percent of research in aviation and space travel, 65 percent in electrical and electronic devices, 42 percent in Scientific Instruments, 31 percent in machinery, 28 percent in metal alloys, 24 percent in automobiles, and 20 percent in chemicals." William Manchester "The Glory and the Dream"
"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice; socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality." Mikhail Bakunin
"Moreover, if we give the matter a moment's thought, we can see that the 20th century morality tale of 'socialism vs. freedom' or 'communism vs. capitalism' is misleading. Capitalism is not a political system; it is a form of economic life, compatible in practice with right wing dictatorships (Chile under Pinochet), left-wing dictatorships (contemporary China), social-democratic monarchies (Sweden), and plutocratic republics (the United States), whether capitalist economies thrive best under conditions of freedom is perhaps more of an open question than we like to think." Tony Judt 'Ill fares the Land'
"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." Winston Churchill
"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." Ronald Wright
"There is only one party in the United States, the Property Party ... and it has two right wings: Republican and Democrat. Republicans are a bit stupider, more rigid, more doctrinaire in their laissez-faire capitalism than the Democrats, who are cuter, prettier, a bit more corrupt — until recently ... and more willing than the Republicans to make small adjustments when the poor, the black, the anti-imperialists get out of hand. But, essentially, there is no difference between the two parties." Gore Vidal
https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/the-problem-using-sweden-as-an-example-of-a-socialist-model-that-works-sweden-aint-socialist/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2018/07/08/sorry-bernie-bros-but-nordic-countries-are-not-socialist/
https://www.quora.com/How-Socialist-is-Finland
Interesting reading
Good quote "Finland is not socialist at all.
There is no way to be partly socialist, or somewhat socialist. A country either embraces capitalism, where private companies are allowed to exist, or then they don't. As Finland is a capitalist country, it can not be a socialist country."
Quote from: midcan5 on July 12, 2020, 01:50:31 PM
Solar, everyone has their opinion on any number of subjects, because someone disagrees with me or thinks I'm mistaken I can't change their mind, that is something they would have to do with continued reading and understanding. It is education and the epiphanies that occasionally come to us as we grow. Am I wrong sometimes, of course but if you notice I do provide links and other information to support my views.
Take as an example Possum's assumption that all liberals defend socialism. Do they? I'd have to know what he means by socialism. But then he answers or assumes, claims it fails every time. Wouldn't Finland and Sweden be considered socialism and are they failures? Is not socialism like most political isms a goal or method rather than a hard and fast plan? Easy definitions and simple categories help us understand and communicate but the world is a complicated place and we need to be clear and work out what works and what we mean. People can disagree with me and if they think I really blundered they can message me I'll always reply.
You're entitled to your own opinions, but you're not entitled to your own lying "facts".
Now, back to an earlier post you ignored.
Quote from: Solar on July 06, 2020, 05:35:01 AM
Wow, nothing like opening with an ignorant lie! We are not an Oligarchy, we are a Republic, you idiot troll!
A Republic by design, sets constraints on govt, while a democracy enhances the power of the Federal govt as a weapon for the mob.
You need to read some actual history books and leave the opinion pieces to the trash heap of history!
it's debatable:
noun: oligarchy; plural noun: oligarchies
a small group of people having control of a country, organization, or institution.
"the ruling oligarchy of military men around the president"
a country governed by an oligarchy.
"the English aristocratic oligarchy of the 19th century"
government by an oligarchy.
No Posting Till You Reply To Posts.
Quote from: midcan5 on July 14, 2020, 11:36:03 AM
No Posting Till You Reply To Posts.
You have replies yet to be addressed. Until you do, you are not allowed to post.
Walks, put him on watch....
Sonar, reply to Post 97.
Quote from: Solar on July 06, 2020, 05:35:01 AM
"Wow, nothing like opening with an ignorant lie! We are not an Oligarchy, we are a Republic, you idiot troll!
A Republic by design, sets constraints on govt, while a democracy enhances the power of the Federal govt as a weapon for the mob.
You need to read some actual history books and leave the opinion pieces to the trash heap of history!"
I agree we are a republic but also a democracy as the recent election demonstrated. The relationship is complicated but it works as both serve as brakes on the other. We can debate names but the reality is always a work in progress.
I want to recommend another book for those who want to take a deep dive into ideology. This is a detailed read and later I'll post some debate on topic. Amazon Prime is also running documentaries on subject. Check them out.
'Hitler's Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust'
Quote from: midcan5 on February 06, 2021, 06:20:09 AM
Sonar, reply to Post 97.
Quote from: Solar on July 06, 2020, 05:35:01 AM
"Wow, nothing like opening with an ignorant lie! We are not an Oligarchy, we are a Republic, you idiot troll!
A Republic by design, sets constraints on govt, while a democracy enhances the power of the Federal govt as a weapon for the mob.
You need to read some actual history books and leave the opinion pieces to the trash heap of history!"
I agree we are a republic but also a democracy as the recent election demonstrated. The relationship is complicated but it works as both serve as brakes on the other. We can debate names but the reality is always a work in progress.
Therein lies your problem, you are under the illusion that our Constitution is a living Document. It Is Not!!!
So no, we are not "a work in progress"!
Quote from: Solar on February 06, 2021, 06:56:55 PM
Therein lies your problem, you are under the illusion that our Constitution is a living Document. It Is Not!!!
So no, we are not "a work in progress"!
Again I agree but where I disagree is that times in our history are works in progress. And the Constitution has been amended many times. Consider the last change.
"Twenty-seventh Amendment, amendment (1992) to the Constitution of the United States that required any change to the rate of compensation for members of the U.S. Congress to take effect only after the subsequent election in the House of Representatives."
But I want to note a book I'm finishing as the internet has changed so much in how we live today. Readers will find it amazing. It starts slow but covers so many important issues of the day.
"What began as advertising is now a threat to freedom and democracy argues the author and scholar. Time to wake up - and fight for a different digital future"
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/oct/04/shoshana-zuboff-surveillance-capitalism-assault-human-automomy-digital-privacy
'High tech is watching you'
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2019/03/harvard-professor-says-surveillance-capitalism-is-undermining-democracy/
'You Are Now Remotely Controlled'
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/24/opinion/sunday/surveillance-capitalism.html
Goodreads:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26195941-the-age-of-surveillance-capitalism
Quote from: midcan5 on February 14, 2021, 06:57:38 AM
Again I agree but where I disagree is that times in our history are works in progress. And the Constitution has been amended many times. Consider the last change.
"Twenty-seventh Amendment, amendment (1992) to the Constitution of the United States that required any change to the rate of compensation for members of the U.S. Congress to take effect only after the subsequent election in the House of Representatives."
But I want to note a book I'm finishing as the internet has changed so much in how we live today. Readers will find it amazing. It starts slow but covers so many important issues of the day.
"What began as advertising is now a threat to freedom and democracy argues the author and scholar. Time to wake up - and fight for a different digital future"
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/oct/04/shoshana-zuboff-surveillance-capitalism-assault-human-automomy-digital-privacy
'
Here's the problem, you read waaaay too much, but you don't think beyond the opinions you seek!
I don't need to read someone else's opinion to know the left has been destroying our Constitution for centuries.
There is not one single Amendment that was needed, the Constitution stands alone if our so called Reps had stood their ground and asserted its meaning.
Think about that, look at all the Amendments and read the Constitution, not a single damn Amendment was needed, unless you're trying to score political points or destroy its original Intent!
Use some critical thought and think for yourself once and awhile.
Also, I released your account, but it's still showing moderated, so Walks will need to look at it.
Sonar, your reply opened up so many avenues of thought it took a bit to travel a few. Mom always said read, but she meant religious reading, teenage boys want adventure, cars, and sex. I started reading more serious stuff in the military in Alaska before these times of instant communication. A beautiful place but darkness and winter cold made time for reading, oh and handball too.
My wife complained I read too much when we first married, she once threw a book at me when she got mad at something or the other. Women! We are still married and today I read a lot less with the Internet and photography. But back on topic.
The Constitution has improved with time, consider voting as a primary one. Sonar, you must think a few of the 17 additions are important and necessary? The 12Th on election process, 13Th/14Th slavery and rights, the 18Th a failure, but the 19Th a real change and the 24Th another positive. If you can fight and die for your nation at 18 then the 26Th makes sense too.
We read for lots of reasons. The book I mentioned above covers how surveillance has taken over the Internet, your searches tell them your interests etc. You have a point but there are lots of things one can do to get a better understanding of our times.
There is good information online. I try to read both sides. This site gives information on the political leaning of various sites.
https://answers.library.american.edu/faq/282165
Back to books. While this thread was about history books I want to list a few diverse reads. Books friends and people online praise too. They will challenge you. Constitutional amendments covered below. And read poetry too, Maybe I'll post on that at a later time.
"One must be careful of books, and what is inside them, for words have the power to change us." Cassandra Clare
'Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance' By Robert Pirsig
'Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain' David Eagleman
'Don't Sleep, There Are Snakes: Life and Language in the Amazonian Jungle' by Daniel L. Everett
'Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers' by Robert M. Sapolsky
'Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis' by J. D. Vance
'One of Us: The Story of a Massacre in Norway - and Its Aftermath' by Seierstad, Åsne and Sarah Death
'The Unpersuadables: Adventures with the Enemies of Science' by Will Storr
More History:
'White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America' by Nancy Isenberg
'The Modern Mind: An Intellectual History of the 20Th Century' Peter Watson
'The Rise and Fall of Communism' by Archie Brown
'Humanity: A Moral History of the Twentieth Century' by Jonathan Glover
A useful site for book topic recommendations: https://fivebooks.com/
'The US Constitution has 27 amendments that protect the rights of Americans.'
https://www.insider.com/what-are-all-the-amendments-us-constitution-meaning-history-2018-11
"The limits of my language are the limits of my mind. All I know is what I have words for." Ludwig Wittgenstein
Greetings people, Hope all are well. Wife and I got our first vaccine, hope you did too. Slight side effects and while we never get the flu shot or whatnot decided we'd do this one.
On Topic: For readers interested in the Internet and web, check our 'Surveillance Capitalism' by Shoshana Zuboff. I am reading it now. It is a deep dive into social media, its use, Google, and other online issues.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/oct/04/shoshana-zuboff-surveillance-capitalism-assault-human-automomy-digital-privacy
Not exactly history but I'm sure everyone online here would enjoy it. My copy is from 1988 and yellowing but still often a bump in head for thought.
'The Oxford Book of Aphorisms' by John Gross
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1219254.The_Oxford_Book_of_Aphorisms
One gem from politics' section:
'It is a vain hope to make people happy by politics.' Thomas Carlyle
It is good to see so many views of this thread. As I noted in another post I am fascinated by cults and ordered this from Amazon.
'Hough's sharp, witty "Leaving Isn't the Hardest Thing" tackles everything from the military to our working class'
https://www.salon.com/2021/04/15/lauren-hough-leaving-isnt-the-hardest-thing-cult/
"The Fundamentalist Christians have told me that I am a slave of Satan and should have my demons expelled with an exorcism. The Fundamentalist Materialists inform me that I am a liar, charlatan, fraud and scoundrel. Aside from this minor difference, the letters are astoundingly similar. Both groups share the same crusading zeal and the same lack of humor, charity and common human decency. These intolerable cults have served to confirm me in my agnosticism by presenting further evidence to support my contention that when dogma enters the brain, all intellectual activity ceases." Robert Anton Wilson
Quote from: midcan5 on April 26, 2021, 04:56:52 AM
It is good to see so many views of this thread. As I noted in another post I am fascinated by cults and ordered this from Amazon.
'Hough's sharp, witty "Leaving Isn't the Hardest Thing" tackles everything from the military to our working class'
https://www.salon.com/2021/04/15/lauren-hough-leaving-isnt-the-hardest-thing-cult/
"The Fundamentalist Christians have told me that I am a slave of Satan and should have my demons expelled with an exorcism. The Fundamentalist Materialists inform me that I am a liar, charlatan, fraud and scoundrel. Aside from this minor difference, the letters are astoundingly similar. Both groups share the same crusading zeal and the same lack of humor, charity and common human decency. These intolerable cults have served to confirm me in my agnosticism by presenting further evidence to support my contention that when dogma enters the brain, all intellectual activity ceases." Robert Anton Wilson
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Ohhhh the fuckin irony~!!! A lib ordering from Amazon, a book on cults.
Now, look up Stockholm Syndrome, you fuckin sheep!
Solar, you should know me by now, the Stockholm syndrome is the farthest thing from me. Do you find me ever agreeing. Soon you'll ban me as I won't agree with ideas I disagree with. Think about that and SS for a moment.
I've updated my favorite quotes if anyone is interested. They range all over the place but will make you think or wink or nod or wonder and learn.
https://midcan5.blogspot.com/2019/02/jms-favorite-mostly-short-quotes-in.html
"The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading." David Bailey
'Hiding' is one of the toughest reads you'll ever tackle.
'Hiding in Plain Sight: The Invention of Donald Trump and the Erosion of America'
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/52274929-hiding-in-plain-sight
Quote from: midcan5 on April 27, 2021, 01:15:37 PM
Solar, you should know me by now, the Stockholm syndrome is the farthest thing from me. Do you find me ever agreeing. Soon you'll ban me as I won't agree with ideas I disagree with. Think about that and SS for a moment.
I've updated my favorite quotes if anyone is interested. They range all over the place but will make you think or wink or nod or wonder and learn.
https://midcan5.blogspot.com/2019/02/jms-favorite-mostly-short-quotes-in.html
"The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading." David Bailey
'Hiding' is one of the toughest reads you'll ever tackle.
'Hiding in Plain Sight: The Invention of Donald Trump and the Erosion of America'
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/52274929-hiding-in-plain-sight
I always did take you for a mein kampf kind of liberal....
Quote from: midcan5 on April 27, 2021, 01:15:37 PM
Solar, you should know me by now, the Stockholm syndrome is the farthest thing from me. Do you find me ever agreeing. Soon you'll ban me as I won't agree with ideas I disagree with. Think about that and SS for a moment.
I've updated my favorite quotes if anyone is interested. They range all over the place but will make you think or wink or nod or wonder and learn.
https://midcan5.blogspot.com/2019/02/jms-favorite-mostly-short-quotes-in.html
"The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading." David Bailey
'Hiding' is one of the toughest reads you'll ever tackle.
'Hiding in Plain Sight: The Invention of Donald Trump and the Erosion of America'
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/52274929-hiding-in-plain-sight
Yes, I know you well, and you are about as closed minded as they come, you refuse to venture outside of your bubble, even as we present evidence that Marxists are trying to destroy the US.
Then you prove my point by posting an anti Trump POS by a bubble dwelling leftist who obviously never studied our Constitution.
How is it you refuse to acknowledge the obvious fact that it was crony corporate leftists in both party's that brought us to this point?
Yes, NAFTA was a planned assault on the country, knowing full well all these corporations would bail on the American worker in search of slave labor.
And now we have one party that literally stole an election, placed a puppet in office, to only take orders from faceless Marxist.
Do you deny this?
Solar, I'll reply to you later today, the good Lord willing and the creek don't rise....
Quote from: Owebo on April 27, 2021, 01:34:17 PM
I always did take you for a mein kampf kind of liberal....
Owebo, Did you ever read Mein Kampf? I tried it long ago but couldn't get through it. I was surprised though that Pres Trump was a reader and kept a copy at his bedside.
"The great masses of the people will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one. If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed. Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it. By the skillful and sustained use of propaganda, one can make a people see even heaven as hell or an extremely wretched life as paradise."
Hitler's Control of the Masses, Mein Kampf
Quote from: midcan5 on April 28, 2021, 04:22:29 AM
Solar, I'll reply to you later today, the good Lord willing and the creek don't rise....
Owebo, Did you ever read Mein Kampf? I tried it long ago but couldn't get through it. I was surprised though that Pres Trump was a reader and kept a copy at his bedside.
"The great masses of the people will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one. If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed. Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it. By the skillful and sustained use of propaganda, one can make a people see even heaven as hell or an extremely wretched life as paradise."
Hitler's Control of the Masses, Mein Kampf
Yes I did...how do you think I can see right through you liberal nazis as you use hitlers playbook.....
Quote from: midcan5 on April 28, 2021, 04:22:29 AM
Solar, I'll reply to you later today, the good Lord willing and the creek don't rise....
Owebo, Did you ever read Mein Kampf? I tried it long ago but couldn't get through it. I was surprised though that Pres Trump was a reader and kept a copy at his bedside.
"The great masses of the people will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one. If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed. Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it. By the skillful and sustained use of propaganda, one can make a people see even heaven as hell or an extremely wretched life as paradise."
Hitler's Control of the Masses, Mein Kampf
Know your enemy. and know those that could be your enemy.
Trump also has a copy of Das Kapital as well.
But then I bet you either did not know that or since it blew your agenda up said nothing.
You are the kind that are used to fool others.
There are various names for such but one I thought very appropriate
USEFUL FOOL
Some call them USEFUL IDIOTS but I like mine better
Quote from: midcan5 on April 28, 2021, 04:22:29 AM
Solar, I'll reply to you later today, the good Lord willing and the creek don't rise....
Owebo, Did you ever read Mein Kampf? I tried it long ago but couldn't get through it. I was surprised though that Pres Trump was a reader and kept a copy at his bedside.
"The great masses of the people will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one. If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed. Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it. By the skillful and sustained use of propaganda, one can make a people see even heaven as hell or an extremely wretched life as paradise."
Hitler's Control of the Masses, Mein Kampf
Thomas Jefferson owned a Koran, that evil traitor. :rolleyes:
This is your problem, you refuse to learn, sure you read a lot of shit, problem is, it's all opinion reaffirming.
We on the other hand we know that studying both sides, elucidates and educates as to what the enemy has planned, and just how ignorant and blind they are.
For this reason history repeats itself and idiots like you ask "How did this happen"?
Do you seriously believe an old dementiaed fool was elected with the highest numbers in all of American history?
Do you seriously believe opening the border is what is good for the US, that a party promoting racial division, riots actually won the American vote?
I don't believe your claim of being an American.
On topic:
A fascinating read for history buffs is, 'White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America' by Nancy Rosenberg. I am amazed today that so much good writing and especially history is written by women. Kim Phillips-Fein, Arlie Russell Hochschild, Jane Mayer are excellent. 'White Trash' is fascinating as it gets into how we got here. If you don't have time for books check out the articles below. They cover that historical period.
"1930s-era Alabama sharecroppers, among the most viciously exploited groups of people in American history."
https://medium.com/message/how-white-people-got-made-6eeb076ade42
Quote from: midcan5 on May 03, 2021, 05:13:02 AM
On topic:
A fascinating read for history buffs is, 'White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America' by Nancy Rosenberg. I am amazed today that so much good writing and especially history is written by women. Kim Phillips-Fein, Arlie Russell Hochschild, Jane Mayer are excellent. 'White Trash' is fascinating as it gets into how we got here. If you don't have time for books check out the articles below. They cover that historical period.
"1930s-era Alabama sharecroppers, among the most viciously exploited groups of people in American history."
https://medium.com/message/how-white-people-got-made-6eeb076ade42
Again, no one gives a fuck what you have to say, Marxist!
Quote from: midcan5 on May 03, 2021, 05:13:02 AM
On topic:
A fascinating read for history buffs is, 'White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America' by Nancy Rosenberg. I am amazed today that so much good writing and especially history is written by women. Kim Phillips-Fein, Arlie Russell Hochschild, Jane Mayer are excellent. 'White Trash' is fascinating as it gets into how we got here. If you don't have time for books check out the articles below. They cover that historical period.
"1930s-era Alabama sharecroppers, among the most viciously exploited groups of people in American history."
https://medium.com/message/how-white-people-got-made-6eeb076ade42
How about
'Karl Marx-responsible for more deaths than any other human in history"
Would you read that?
Quote from: winterset on May 04, 2021, 10:47:37 AM
How about
'Karl Marx-responsible for more deaths than any other human in history"
Would you read that?
He's read it and agreed with it.
Causes of death is a tough topic. Ideology follows Mother Nature if we are open to all causes of death. Look at the Black Plague for instance. It may have killed half the world's population, approx 50 million. According to many Hitler (Fascism) is first, but from my own reading I wonder if Mao (Maoism) isn't the worst. Who counted? How many did world wide slavery cause? Germs probably beat all, look at Aids, Ebola, Covid-19 etc in our own time.
Twentieth Century list according to most historians.
Adolph Hitler
Josef Stalin
Mao Zedong
Pol Pot
Causes of death
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/the-top-10-causes-of-death
"Mother Nature is the greatest bioterrorist of them all, with no financial limitations or ethical compunctions."
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/30841977-deadliest-enemy
Quote from: midcan5 on May 14, 2021, 09:04:40 AMCauses of death is a tough topic. Ideology follows Mother Nature if we are open to all causes of death. Look at the Black Plague for instance. It may have killed half the world's population, approx 50 million. According to many Hitler (Fascism) is first, but from my own reading I wonder if Mao (Maoism) isn't the worst. Who counted? How many did world wide slavery cause? Germs probably beat all, look at Aids, Ebola, Covid-19 etc in our own time.
Twentieth Century list according to most historians.
Adolph Hitler
Josef Stalin
Mao Zedong
Pol Pot
Causes of death
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/the-top-10-causes-of-death
"Mother Nature is the greatest bioterrorist of them all, with no financial limitations or ethical compunctions."
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/30841977-deadliest-enemy
Any source that does not put Mao as the greatest murderer of all time is worthless. It is not even close.
Hitler is a poor third. Stalin is easily number two.
You can get all sorts of estimates but most honest ones have Mao at around 60-80 million AT LEAST
Between the cultural revolution and the deliberately engineered famine.
Stalin- 20-40 million depending on how you count. Start out with 3-5 million at least in the Ukraine in another engineered famine (Communists do that quite well) and then the purges and the gulags and the penal battalions forced to charge into minefields and machine gun nests in WW2.
Hitler is a paltry third at 9-11 million.