I like to play the market in my mind, not Wall Street, a fixed monopoly via Cronyism, but I like to look at the future and try and predict trends.
Take Harley for example, they are looking death in the eye, assuming they don't make changes, like marketing to Millennial', simply because the generation that made them rich is dying off, and because this is happening, there's a glut of cheap used Harley's hitting the mkt and killing new sales.
So here's my question. Considering the snowflake generation with an identity crisis, what would you market to them?
I have a few ideas, such as privacy cubes, safe spaces, self-contained, soundproof cubicles you can place anywhere you have an 8x12' space, or imagine an egg chair, something you would call an escape pod with a monitor for TV or gaming, surfing the web, filtered air, as well as sound proofed with a LED darkening glass front for total privacy to fap your day away in total seclusion.
Yeah, none of this will come cheap, but then, they will eventually be making a lot of money being perpetually single.
Freedom is something man has always strived towards, but Millennial' have been raised in a bubble and taught to fear the unknown, so buying remote property is out of the question for these kids, but they still seek freedom and privacy, so for those with money, I see an even bigger project.
Underground Bunkers, totally self contained, blast doors and security cameras surrounding the area, total piece of mind.
But what about the Millennial that doesn't want any of that, they want to stand out as the rebel, the nonconformist, the loner, doesn't want others approval, just wants to be left alone, the guy who abandoned the Dim party for the LIBertarian movement?
That should be Harley's target Market, a hybrid bike, tricked out with the latest tech, because let's face it, no matter how much these kids see themselves as rebels, they still want everyone to know they're rebels, hence the name of the bike, the Harley Rebel, pure black, just like the heart of the rider (image he wants to project), moderate chrome, a low key Harley sound, not too loud, power first and foremost, because that's the one thing they feel they lost most, was power, and this is a bit of a replacement.
Yes, the next gen is an interesting animal, but one that is extremely easy to understand and predictable and one with soon to be, disposable income, so I also see small motor homes/getaway cubes, so to speak.
Or camping gear like tents with builtin solar, USB connectivity, Cell phone boosters etc, this alone is a whole new mkt on its own.
I focus on escape because I believe that's the one thing Millennial seek, is escape from reality, the mold of what they perceived as the 9 to 5 drone like the life their parents lived, a way of life doomed to certain death because the next gen rejects it.
I think the key to unlocking this gen is to target them as individuals, not the way we were marketed to, where we were encouraged to compete with one another, "Keep up with the Jonse's" persay, I have a bigger house than you, a bigger boat, my wife wears Prada, Hell, even I reject that bullshit!
Granted, this is vestigial in nature, though I think it represents the majority of this age group, the group raised to despise American culture of conquering your environment, no, a good approach towards these folks is a "Meld with Nature", become one with the environment, be noncombative, this is the best way to gain their trust, be their friend on their journey towards the future, if you can pull that off, you have a lifetime customer.
They are not the enemy they think the country perceives them as, but they are fragile, so the approach needs to be extremely subtle, so I think the best way to seek out these people as customers, is a grassroots campaign, where they think it is they who discovered this new lifestyle.
Thoughts?
A great article overall.
Quote
But what about the Millennial that doesn't want any of that, they want to stand out as the rebel, the nonconformist, the loner, doesn't want others approval, just wants to be left alone, the guy who abandoned the Dim party for the LIBertarian movement?
My observation is that Millennials want to appear being non-conformist and rebels. So what are they conforming to? Other Millennials. True non-conformist would not all look alike. True rebels would not all spout the same trite phrases. At the end of the day, the so-called non-conformist are really conforming to Non-Conformity.
(https://jamysworldofthoughts.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/tumblr_lyovx7qwyc1r4gjuno1_500.jpg?w=300&h=219)
Being a really "late-bloomer-parent", we got Gen-X and Millennial kids. IMO, they're pretty much the same.... meh almost like I was as a 1970's liberal-radical. The generation gap between Millennial kids and Baby Boomers is only in years, mentally... I see mostly similarities.
Off the top of my head, Millennials are more fiscally conservative. Socially they just have different gadgets to play with, just as "we" pushed the boundries, so do they - except it gets published all over the internet. We had the 'Hold my beer & watch this..." invincibility, no different than their, "Wow, this is going on Reddit!" - we were just as stupid as they are, and in a bizarre twist of fate, survived.
About the time I was engaged 1980, my dad said, "I can't believe how EXPENSIVE houses are - hope you two can afford one some day!"
My spin, "I cannot fathom a $2000 a month mortgage payment - how can you kids ever afford that!?"
Universally, yesterday, today, etc., "Two can live cheaper than one.", like our generation just figured it out - they are the same.
The only worry I have about Millennials is this $20trillion debt and all the unfunded liabilities. Thanks to the Democrat/Socialist Party, demanding higher and higher wages, I fear inflation is closer than we imagine - which will crush retirees financially. It could be mom & dad living in the Millennial's basement 10years down the road. We haven't endured serious inflation since Jimmy Carter & Gerald Ford... that's like my mom and dad talking about the Great Depression - once you experience it, your buying & saving habits are never the same again.
Millennials seem to be more wary of debt than the Boomers. They also look closer for "value for the buck" than us. We're more likely to buy something from HSN/QVC based on a sales pitch over a TV, they're more likely to read every review, consult with friends and find someone who "owns it" before shelling out a buck.
So here's the bottom line in successful marketing (my opinion, what's working for us)
a. Demonstration of the product, hands on, at least see-it-working, best bet is put-it-in-their-hands and make them successful using it.
That is almost a guaranteed sale, with any generation, but especially the Millennials - who are fixated on Youtube style pitches, we're just bringing them into the action.
b. Oversimplify the pitch and quickly move to the "highly technical aspects" of the product. Sort of a, "What's that? DUH. a motorcycle." and quickly followed up with, an appeal to technical wizardry, "Unlike a Yamaha, the Harley's vibrations are finely tuned to a womans erotic pitch..., Yeah, man, we conceptualized it on a MAC, but debugged it on a CRAY to get the right balance.. if-you-know-what-I-mean."
c. Value for the money. While we sell plenty because, "I ain't got time to build my own, so I'll buy yours..." We make a point of showing the effort (hand made & each one tuned specifically), and here's the proof of concept, detailed charts and demonstration if possible. The detailed performance charts have sold many units, as well as simplicity & uniqueness in design.
Rarely do we run into the *really* genuine Pessimist Millennial. Those are the preppers & protesters. That hasn't changed since our generation, they're very few in numbers, IMO. The rest of them, +95%, are just like I was in the '70s, I guess that's why we seem to hit it off so well, and they say, "You guys are so cool..., or Hipsters..." With the right advertising, Harleys will sell again, and maybe a smaller model...?
Quote from: Hoofer on July 18, 2017, 07:02:10 PM
Being a really "late-bloomer-parent", we got Gen-X and Millennial kids. IMO, they're pretty much the same.... meh almost like I was as a 1970's liberal-radical. The generation gap between Millennial kids and Baby Boomers is only in years, mentally... I see mostly similarities.
Off the top of my head, Millennials are more fiscally conservative. Socially they just have different gadgets to play with, just as "we" pushed the boundries, so do they - except it gets published all over the internet. We had the 'Hold my beer & watch this..." invincibility, no different than their, "Wow, this is going on Reddit!" - we were just as stupid as they are, and in a bizarre twist of fate, survived.
About the time I was engaged 1980, my dad said, "I can't believe how EXPENSIVE houses are - hope you two can afford one some day!"
My spin, "I cannot fathom a $2000 a month mortgage payment - how can you kids ever afford that!?"
Universally, yesterday, today, etc., "Two can live cheaper than one.", like our generation just figured it out - they are the same.
The only worry I have about Millennials is this $20trillion debt and all the unfunded liabilities. Thanks to the Democrat/Socialist Party, demanding higher and higher wages, I fear inflation is closer than we imagine - which will crush retirees financially. It could be mom & dad living in the Millennial's basement 10years down the road. We haven't endured serious inflation since Jimmy Carter & Gerald Ford... that's like my mom and dad talking about the Great Depression - once you experience it, your buying & saving habits are never the same again.
Millennials seem to be more wary of debt than the Boomers. They also look closer for "value for the buck" than us. We're more likely to buy something from HSN/QVC based on a sales pitch over a TV, they're more likely to read every review, consult with friends and find someone who "owns it" before shelling out a buck.
So here's the bottom line in successful marketing (my opinion, what's working for us)
a. Demonstration of the product, hands on, at least see-it-working, best bet is put-it-in-their-hands and make them successful using it.
That is almost a guaranteed sale, with any generation, but especially the Millennials - who are fixated on Youtube style pitches, we're just bringing them into the action.
b. Oversimplify the pitch and quickly move to the "highly technical aspects" of the product. Sort of a, "What's that? DUH. a motorcycle." and quickly followed up with, an appeal to technical wizardry, "Unlike a Yamaha, the Harley's vibrations are finely tuned to a womans erotic pitch..., Yeah, man, we conceptualized it on a MAC, but debugged it on a CRAY to get the right balance.. if-you-know-what-I-mean."
c. Value for the money. While we sell plenty because, "I ain't got time to build my own, so I'll buy yours..." We make a point of showing the effort (hand made & each one tuned specifically), and here's the proof of concept, detailed charts and demonstration if possible. The detailed performance charts have sold many units, as well as simplicity & uniqueness in design.
Rarely do we run into the *really* genuine Pessimist Millennial. Those are the preppers & protesters. That hasn't changed since our generation, they're very few in numbers, IMO. The rest of them, +95%, are just like I was in the '70s, I guess that's why we seem to hit it off so well, and they say, "You guys are so cool..., or Hipsters..." With the right advertising, Harleys will sell again, and maybe a smaller model...?
I'm pretty much in agreement, Millennials are really no different than us, in fact, I think one of the main differences between us and them, is trust of authority, thanks to the left, they have no faith in govt, and that's a healthy thing indeed.
This was never about bashing Millennial, rather understanding them and marketing to them by understanding what makes them tick, and yes, I do believe this all translates into skepticism, so whatever they are being sold, you can bet they'll do an excessive amount of homework first.
But like all good marketing companies, they'll try and stay three steps ahead of them with bogus studies and phony testimonials, kind of like how every year a new product is released right after the media touts a new study proving such and such, (fill in the blank_____), can extend your life and vitality.
Reminds me of when Equal was about to be released and all these studies hit the media about the ill effects of sugar.
No, I haven't given up on the Millennial, no, I think they're going to be just fine, after all, unlike the black community, they abandoned the Marxist party in droves. That really is saying something for them, they saw through the lies, Hell, they even saw through the gop'E lies as well.
Oh, and you are spot on about chicks and Harley's, my ex-girlfriend was nearly comatose after a two hour giddy ride. :biggrin:
Addendum: I apologize, though unaware, this old fart made the mistake of not realizing millennials aren't in their early 20s any longer, so I'd like to include the Z generation, which in truth, is who this article is really all about, including Millennials, the next generation of old farts. :biggrin:
Ever notice how "we" will tend to validate statements by checking with someone in our generation? (which is REALLY stupid)
Example: A fast-talking Millennial tries to sell a life insurance plan to a Boomer. The Boomer says, "Let me think about it..." - calls up another Boomer, "Hey, man, whadda think about x-y-z life insurance?" ...and based on their assessment alone, they decline or accept.
Example 2: Millennial is told a HSA is a smart choice (health savings account), the Millennial has absolutely ZERO health expenses, sooooo... "Hey, man, what do you think of HSAs?" ...and based on that assessment, "Are you kidding, no interest man, it's a loser!" -or- "Hey, dude, build up that safety blankey while you're healthy, it's tax free, dude!" They'll most likely go with the generational advice.
Even though practically every decision can lead to success -or- failure, we're less likely to investigate possible outcomes and more likely to take questionable advice, "Oh Yeah!? Here ... hold my beer, I can do that...!"
Quote from: Hoofer on July 19, 2017, 02:42:25 PM
Ever notice how "we" will tend to validate statements by checking with someone in our generation? (which is REALLY stupid)
Example: A fast-talking Millennial tries to sell a life insurance plan to a Boomer. The Boomer says, "Let me think about it..." - calls up another Boomer, "Hey, man, whadda think about x-y-z life insurance?" ...and based on their assessment alone, they decline or accept.
Example 2: Millennial is told a HSA is a smart choice (health savings account), the Millennial has absolutely ZERO health expenses, sooooo... "Hey, man, what do you think of HSAs?" ...and based on that assessment, "Are you kidding, no interest man, it's a loser!" -or- "Hey, dude, build up that safety blankey while you're healthy, it's tax free, dude!" They'll most likely go with the generational advice.
Even though practically every decision can lead to success -or- failure, we're less likely to investigate possible outcomes and more likely to take questionable advice, "Oh Yeah!? Here ... hold my beer, I can do that...!"
I really can't follow your meaning beyond one's perspective develops over decades, so why even consider that of a mere kids opinion on something they have no relative historical context of understanding.
Yes, they would naturally have a differing view, but everyone has an opinion, while the rest of us have an educated opinion.
Sorry for responding so late, but I've come back to this several times trying to figure exactly what you were saying.
Quote from: Solar on September 13, 2017, 06:24:43 AM
I really can't follow your meaning beyond one's perspective develops over decades, so why even consider that of a mere kids opinion on something they have no relative historical context of understanding.
Yes, they would naturally have a differing view, but everyone has an opinion, while the rest of us have an educated opinion.
Sorry for responding so late, but I've come back to this several times trying to figure exactly what you were saying.
We tend to believe opinions from people of our own age group, rather than seriously consider advice from another generation. Sort of like "History started the say I was born". Just an observation.
The world market(s) are changing so fast, expanding and/or contracting, it's hard to keep a handle on what direction the market / sales opportunities are going, without staying engaged with the younger generations. I'm not too savy on social media stuff, but.... I'm seeing my market expanding in the "Tech savy" Gen-X faster than anywhere else.
Guys my age say, "Nobody builds anything anymore". Among the Gen-Xers, they don't know HOW to build anything, so, there's a great opportunity for me. Having my kids with me, helps me reach those kids - they just see them as peers, and open right up. On the otherhand, I'll take the time to pay close attention to the kids - they're telling me what/where the next marketing opportunity is.
Quote from: Hoofer on September 13, 2017, 10:20:36 AM
We tend to believe opinions from people of our own age group, rather than seriously consider advice from another generation. Sort of like "History started the say I was born". Just an observation.
The world market(s) are changing so fast, expanding and/or contracting, it's hard to keep a handle on what direction the market / sales opportunities are going, without staying engaged with the younger generations. I'm not too savy on social media stuff, but.... I'm seeing my market expanding in the "Tech savy" Gen-X faster than anywhere else.
Guys my age say, "Nobody builds anything anymore". Among the Gen-Xers, they don't know HOW to build anything, so, there's a great opportunity for me. Having my kids with me, helps me reach those kids - they just see them as peers, and open right up. On the otherhand, I'll take the time to pay close attention to the kids - they're telling me what/where the next marketing opportunity is.
Ahh, I wouldn't take anyone's advice where the market is concerned, (thinking Wall St), since it's heavily manipulated, so I steer clear of it.
Not to mention I'm at the age where, I more than likely wouldn't see a return on any investment, which is why I only invest in product I can get a return on simply by sitting on it a couple of years, like copper etc.
I get your point, but quite honestly, anything someone considerably younger than me has the years to wait for ROI, so any advice they'd have on the market is totally useless to me.
Quote from: Solar on September 13, 2017, 12:59:39 PM
Ahh, I wouldn't take anyone's advice where the market is concerned, (thinking Wall St), since it's heavily manipulated, so I steer clear of it.
Not to mention I'm at the age where, I more than likely wouldn't see a return on any investment, which is why I only invest in product I can get a return on simply by sitting on it a couple of years, like copper etc.
I get your point, but quite honestly, anything someone considerably younger than me has the years to wait for ROI, so any advice they'd have on the market is totally useless to me.
I did the "day trading" thing for about 2 years, but I stuck to the industry stocks I understood, the field I actually work in.
Occasionally, I'd get a call from someone trying to "forecast" where they thought my field of work was headed, were we expanding, how soon, contracting, laying off, etc. - and like all free advice, what I gave them was worth all of it - total BS! (not deliberately, but I'm not the CEO, what the hell do I know??? Why are they asking me about capitalization!? I'm a freaking grunt in the field)
I guess, like you, I'll sit on something, hoping for the price to rise. Lead is way, way down, $0.05 per lb locally. I'll sit on 3 tons of it in batteries, than give it away. And, like you, when it comes to investments, 99% of what I hear on the radio.... has got to be 100% BS... no matter what the age of the advice giver. I am suspicious of any get-rich-quick idea, because I've got-poor-quick a couple of times.
We hear these "tax-lien" investment pitches on the radio, over and over...
Why the heck would you want to buy the debt of a guy who can't pay his property taxes? What's Silver going for lately? Has it hit $200 per oz, like that investment guy has been saying for at least 3 years - or staying around $12-16? What about $2000 gold? And I remember last year, a lot of people were saying the Market was going to CRASH by now.... it's going up!
"Disaster Investing" IMHO... better be something you can physically use, like EAT, wear, drive, etc., or be prepared for the potential for it becoming worthless. Buying someone's overdue taxes as an investment - are you freeking kidding me!?!? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Quote from: Hoofer on September 15, 2017, 06:53:36 AM
I did the "day trading" thing for about 2 years, but I stuck to the industry stocks I understood, the field I actually work in.
Occasionally, I'd get a call from someone trying to "forecast" where they thought my field of work was headed, were we expanding, how soon, contracting, laying off, etc. - and like all free advice, what I gave them was worth all of it - total BS! (not deliberately, but I'm not the CEO, what the hell do I know??? Why are they asking me about capitalization!? I'm a freaking grunt in the field)
I guess, like you, I'll sit on something, hoping for the price to rise. Lead is way, way down, $0.05 per lb locally. I'll sit on 3 tons of it in batteries, than give it away. And, like you, when it comes to investments, 99% of what I hear on the radio.... has got to be 100% BS... no matter what the age of the advice giver. I am suspicious of any get-rich-quick idea, because I've got-poor-quick a couple of times.
We hear these "tax-lien" investment pitches on the radio, over and over... Why the heck would you want to buy the debt of a guy who can't pay his property taxes? What's Silver going for lately? Has it hit $200 per oz, like that investment guy has been saying for at least 3 years - or staying around $12-16? What about $2000 gold? And I remember last year, a lot of people were saying the Market was going to CRASH by now.... it's going up!
"Disaster Investing" IMHO... better be something you can physically use, like EAT, wear, drive, etc., or be prepared for the potential for it becoming worthless. Buying someone's overdue taxes as an investment - are you freeking kidding me!?!? :lol: :lol: :lol:
I won't say who, but someone I've known for decades took advice from someone he's known for decades, a guy with a track record of failures, from money to business, including the 70, 80s pyramid schemes, marriage and every fad/scheme that hits, this guy thought he was in on it early enough to get rich, yeah....he's still broke.
Yet the other guy that knows of his failures listened to him, bought a shitload of foreign currency, and is still convinced that any day now, it will be reevaluated and he'll magically become rich, without ever having had to do any research on investment on his own.
Oh, and he was certain when he bought it, that he was some how one of the lucky few to get in on the tail end of the long ass wait all "Those other fools" had been sitting on for so long, that by some lucky chance of leaked info. he bought at the exact perfect moment.
Oh, did I mention, that was three years ago?
Yeah, every time I talk to them, they say, "Any day now", be patient, the gears are turning, then list off a bunch of "so called inside info" from unnamed sources.
Yeah, there's no such thing as an inside source, unless you happened to understand Hungarian and just happened to tap into Soro's satellite phone.
Quote from: Solar on July 18, 2017, 10:29:21 AM
That should be Harley's target Market, a hybrid bike, tricked out with the latest tech, because let's face it, no matter how much these kids see themselves as rebels, they still want everyone to know they're rebels, hence the name of the bike, the Harley Rebel, pure black, just like the heart of the rider (image he wants to project), moderate chrome, a low key Harley sound, not too loud, power first and foremost, because that's the one thing they feel they lost most, was power, and this is a bit of a replacement.
Somebody beat you and Harley Davidson to the punch.
(https://vgy.me/bpR4KI.jpg)
Quote from: TboneAgain on September 15, 2017, 09:10:20 AM
Somebody beat you and Harley Davidson to the punch.
(https://vgy.me/bpR4KI.jpg)
I knew it! Say goodbye to Harley, they are way too late to capture an mkt share that is quickly dwindling.
Bike sales have been off in the last decade, and Harley desperately needed to stay ahead of the curve.
Unless they create an mkt for some new, unheard of form of transport, Harley will be nothing more than an old mans collectible of memories past.
Who knows, time is, in many ways circular, watch for Vaudville to make a return along with speakeasies. :biggrin:
Quote from: TboneAgain on September 15, 2017, 09:10:20 AM
Somebody beat you and Harley Davidson to the punch.
(https://vgy.me/bpR4KI.jpg)
I'm not a biker, and never owned one. That is a really NICE looking ride! It definitely has eye-appeal.
Quote from: TboneAgain on September 15, 2017, 09:10:20 AM
Somebody beat you and Harley Davidson to the punch.
(https://vgy.me/bpR4KI.jpg)
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I just read my OP, (posted below) and Honda hit it spot on, so it looks like Honda knows what the future holds and Harley appears to once again, be stuck in the past.
"But what about the Millennial that doesn't want any of that, they want to stand out as the rebel, the nonconformist, the loner, doesn't want others approval, just wants to be left alone, the guy who abandoned the Dim party for the LIBertarian movement?
That should be Harley's target Market, a hybrid bike, tricked out with the latest tech, because let's face it, no matter how much these kids see themselves as rebels, they still want everyone to know they're rebels, hence the name of the bike, the Harley Rebel, pure black, just like the heart of the rider (image he wants to project), moderate chrome, a low key Harley sound, not too loud, power first and foremost, because that's the one thing they feel they lost most, was power, and this is a bit of a replacement."
Quote from: Solar on September 15, 2017, 07:19:03 AM
I won't say who, but someone I've known for decades took advice from someone he's known for decades, a guy with a track record of failures, from money to business, including the 70, 80s pyramid schemes, marriage and every fad/scheme that hits, this guy thought he was in on it early enough to get rich, yeah....he's still broke.
Yet the other guy that knows of his failures listened to him, bought a shitload of foreign currency, and is still convinced that any day now, it will be reevaluated and he'll magically become rich, without ever having had to do any research on investment on his own.
Oh, and he was certain when he bought it, that he was some how one of the lucky few to get in on the tail end of the long ass wait all "Those other fools" had been sitting on for so long, that by some lucky chance of leaked info. he bought at the exact perfect moment.
Oh, did I mention, that was three years ago?
Yeah, every time I talk to them, they say, "Any day now", be patient, the gears are turning, then list off a bunch of "so called inside info" from unnamed sources.
Yeah, there's no such thing as an inside source, unless you happened to understand Hungarian and just happened to tap into Soro's satellite phone.
I must know their Family, Uncles, Aunts, Cousins & Nephews.... there's a ton of them out there! Conversation usually starts with, "If you bought just 100 shares of Disney, Amazon, Berkshire-Hathaway when they started...". They must have watched that "Back to the Future" movie, the bad dude takes a sports book back to the past and bets on the games, already knowing the outcome, to build his empire. "Oh... if I only had a TIME MACHINE!!!" ...and it usually ends with, "It's all rigged against us! We can't get a fair shake, the rich get richer, and we get poorer."
A guy we known for decades, decided to "save himself rich", and live very frugal. Every penny of overtime, went to savings, along with 15% of his income. He never made anything other than modest, conservative investments in the market, CDs from the banks, never went after the high risk stuff. Without earning another penny, he has enough money to make it 30 years through retirement, a millionaire several times over. He never screwed or ripped off anyone - he saved & saved. He has money, he earned it... but needs to protect it.
Several times over his lifetime, were punctuated by inflation, fear investing / selloffs, etc., none of which deterred him from saving. He never wasted time looking for the silver lining, the magic bullet, killer investment. Nor did he buy into the radio pitchman selling the next great investment vehicle.
Quote from: Hoofer on September 16, 2017, 09:02:55 AM
I must know their Family, Uncles, Aunts, Cousins & Nephews.... there's a ton of them out there! Conversation usually starts with, "If you bought just 100 shares of Disney, Amazon, Berkshire-Hathaway when they started...". They must have watched that "Back to the Future" movie, the bad dude takes a sports book back to the past and bets on the games, already knowing the outcome, to build his empire. "Oh... if I only had a TIME MACHINE!!!" ...and it usually ends with, "It's all rigged against us! We can't get a fair shake, the rich get richer, and we get poorer."
A guy we known for decades, decided to "save himself rich", and live very frugal. Every penny of overtime, went to savings, along with 15% of his income. He never made anything other than modest, conservative investments in the market, CDs from the banks, never went after the high risk stuff. Without earning another penny, he has enough money to make it 30 years through retirement, a millionaire several times over. He never screwed or ripped off anyone - he saved & saved. He has money, he earned it... but needs to protect it.
Several times over his lifetime, were punctuated by inflation, fear investing / selloffs, etc., none of which deterred him from saving. He never wasted time looking for the silver lining, the magic bullet, killer investment. Nor did he buy into the radio pitchman selling the next great investment vehicle.
You just described my dads' generation, a product of the Depression, a lesson I learned from him, "If you can't pay cash, it's not yours to own.
I lived that for decades, lived like a pauper, paid cash for everything, my CD's/savings simply didn't exist because I refused to see them as a liquidity, they were there for emergencies only.
Not until I retired 15 years ago, did I finally tap it and relax, never having splurged on fads of the day, I stuck with jeans and Tshirts and always made my own coffee.
If people today would look at the amount of money they waste on frivolities, the crap they claim saves them time, when in truth, they could have set the timer on the coffee pot and had it waiting to take for an entire day.
Seldom did I ever eat out, beans, rice, lean beef etc. The savings came back tenfold, in the end, every dime saved turned into a buck, in the long run, compounding interest.
As you pointed out, it's not about investments, it's all about living within one's means.
Don't get me started on debt. :biggrin:
Quote from: Solar on September 16, 2017, 09:30:55 AM
You just described my dads' generation, a product of the Depression, a lesson I learned from him, "If you can't pay cash, it's not yours to own.
I lived that for decades, lived like a pauper, paid cash for everything, my CD's/savings simply didn't exist because I refused to see them as a liquidity, they were there for emergencies only.
Not until I retired 15 years ago, did I finally tap it and relax, never having splurged on fads of the day, I stuck with jeans and Tshirts and always made my own coffee.
If people today would look at the amount of money they waste on frivolities, the crap they claim saves them time, when in truth, they could have set the timer on the coffee pot and had it waiting to take for an entire day.
Seldom did I ever eat out, beans, rice, lean beef etc. The savings came back tenfold, in the end, every dime saved turned into a buck, in the long run, compounding interest.
As you pointed out, it's not about investments, it's all about living within one's means.
Don't get me started on debt. :biggrin:
I'm glad to know a few people who have done that - they're examples to my kids.
Since I wasn't so wise, until much later in life, I'm taking the approach of never retirement.
My income stream, instead of savings/investments, if successful will be a small business.
This year is looking good.
There is no point in worrying, just come up with a viable plan and work it - having a fall-back plan concurrently in action is wisest.
Most of our friends invest & run businesses, and one of them has been speculating on mining - something I don't have the time to research, not the guts to try - he's had a few setbacks, but overall, done quite well. Another guy does real estate investing, which helped fund his businesses.
Both of these guys use money to make more money, if they can't resell it, or it doesn't replace an essential component of their lives - they don't give it a second look. That's pretty tough, IMO, but they've conditioned themselves to *not* be swayed by the greed & envy in modern society & advertising. On-the-other-hand... we all sort of depend on societal weaknesses to sell those non-essential things. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Hoofer on September 17, 2017, 06:24:12 AM
I'm glad to know a few people who have done that - they're examples to my kids.
Since I wasn't so wise, until much later in life, I'm taking the approach of never retirement.
My income stream, instead of savings/investments, if successful will be a small business.
This year is looking good.
There is no point in worrying, just come up with a viable plan and work it - having a fall-back plan concurrently in action is wisest.
Most of our friends invest & run businesses, and one of them has been speculating on mining - something I don't have the time to research, not the guts to try - he's had a few setbacks, but overall, done quite well. Another guy does real estate investing, which helped fund his businesses.
Both of these guys use money to make more money, if they can't resell it, or it doesn't replace an essential component of their lives - they don't give it a second look. That's pretty tough, IMO, but they've conditioned themselves to *not* be swayed by the greed & envy in modern society & advertising. On-the-other-hand... we all sort of depend on societal weaknesses to sell those non-essential things. :thumbsup:
You mention mining, though I'm sure he is investing in huge proven reserves if he is pulling a profit, there are bad ones as well.
My area is littered with gold mines, some are great producers, while others limp along, decade after decade.
I was having a conversation with a couple of these owners a decade or so ago, one a man, the other a woman, both inherited their respective mines, and both warned me about investing in so called, 'new claims'.
They said you are guaranteed virtually no return on your investment, because of greed for gold changes people, and once the people at the top running the mine have access to its fruit, they skim off the profits, fudge the books and you never see a dime of returns.
She said she knows these people well, they take small amounts of gold out of the country fashioned into cheap ugly jewelry and sell it and reap huge profits without a trace.
They both went into great detail how these people keep on scamming investors because there's a fool waiting to throw their money away because people are greedy and all think they can hit the easy lottery.
If I were evil, I too could bilk the willing fool of their savings, because I have a provable vein of gold on my property that I could easily sucker in thousands in investment.
Problem is, I would destroy my property, (including my home which lies directly over it) through excavation, and secondly it might turn out to be a great vein, which is more than likely the case by the proven mines that surround me, or I could lie and fudge the books and claim it was a dry run, show all expenditures exhausted and walk away with a tidy sum.
But we all know that's not how Conservatives work, we don't cheat people, it's not in our nature, we don't destroy the environment for selfish reasons either.
I'm not even sure I'll pass along the location of the vein before I croak, let them find their own wealth the hard way, like I did.
I hear ya, man!
Having grown up on a decent size farm, and accustom to WORK, it pisses me off to see my own kids lazy, or when a tool breaks - all work immediately halts. Really drives me nuts. We'd fix it, or find some other way to get the job done.
When I asked, "take the weedeater, and cut down everything to the ground around the house. nobody moved. Finally, 3 days later, when an event they wanted to go to, was on-the-line (do this, or don't plan on going), they finally started moving... until the string in the weedeater got so short, it was sucked in.
"Can't get it apart, it's rusted together." He forgot, it's a reverse thread.... duh!
No phone call to dad at work, until dad calls home, "did it get gone? No...? Then weed it by hand."
You'd think the earth had just stopped turning, the stars started falling, or some nuclear bomb had hit - the world was ending, as they knew it.
They got to their event, TWO HOURS late.
I got home, it looked like someone had taken a spade all the way around the house, or plucked every blade of grass by hand - nothing but dirt. Good! Now I can treat for ants and other unwanted pests. In the end, they'll be glad they got it done, so am I.
Next assignment, weedeat UNDER all the electric fences, ALL the pastures. ... bet they get new string on that weedeater, or figure out how to FIX it!
Quote from: Hoofer on September 18, 2017, 05:08:46 PM
I hear ya, man!
Having grown up on a decent size farm, and accustom to WORK, it pisses me off to see my own kids lazy, or when a tool breaks - all work immediately halts. Really drives me nuts. We'd fix it, or find some other way to get the job done.
When I asked, "take the weedeater, and cut down everything to the ground around the house. nobody moved. Finally, 3 days later, when an event they wanted to go to, was on-the-line (do this, or don't plan on going), they finally started moving... until the string in the weedeater got so short, it was sucked in.
"Can't get it apart, it's rusted together." He forgot, it's a reverse thread.... duh!
No phone call to dad at work, until dad calls home, "did it get gone? No...? Then weed it by hand."
You'd think the earth had just stopped turning, the stars started falling, or some nuclear bomb had hit - the world was ending, as they knew it.
They got to their event, TWO HOURS late.
I got home, it looked like someone had taken a spade all the way around the house, or plucked every blade of grass by hand - nothing but dirt. Good! Now I can treat for ants and other unwanted pests. In the end, they'll be glad they got it done, so am I.
Next assignment, weedeat UNDER all the electric fences, ALL the pastures. ... bet they get new string on that weedeater, or figure out how to FIX it!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Today that's seen by leftist as abuse. Leftists just higher an illegal to do the work while the child rots on the vine.
People think I'm nuts for having a pack of JB Weld, bailing wire and duct tape in all my vehicles.
Quote from: Solar on September 19, 2017, 05:23:56 AM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Today that's seen by leftist as abuse. Leftists just higher an illegal to do the work while the child rots on the vine.
People think I'm nuts for having a pack of JB Weld, bailing wire and duct tape in all my vehicles.
Manual labor has been the inspiration for many labor saving devices.
Everyone, is basically lazy, shunning manual labor - unless it's working out in a gym. (makes no sense to me).
Quote from: Hoofer on September 20, 2017, 06:16:32 AM
Manual labor has been the inspiration for many labor saving devices.
Everyone, is basically lazy, shunning manual labor - unless it's working out in a gym. (makes no sense to me).
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Vanity, the driving force behind the success of my health club chain.
Quote from: Solar on September 20, 2017, 06:55:14 AM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Vanity, the driving force behind the success of my health club chain.
Need to harness that energy to lighting or something.
Put up a bunch of LED arrays & a sign, "
Save the Planet - Pedal Faster!" Put out a sign-up sheet to "Keep the Lights On".
If it were me, I'd have them charging my batteries for the house & keep writing off the electric bill as a business expense!
Here's an interesting picture
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2017%2F09%2F20%2F19%2F4486A12100000578-0-image-a-7_1505932841914.jpg&hash=7d1b8d91f2cc53c3dc7fcbd86cfd88e27e44f916)
and an interesting comment, relevant to this conversation
QuoteHe noted that since Forbes created its first list of the 400 richest Americans in 1982 -- Buffett was worth just $250 million then - some 1,500 different people have been included.
All with one thing in common.
"You don't see any short sellers," he said, referring to people who bet stock prices will fall.
"It has been 241 years since Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence," he said.
"Being short America has been a loser's game. I predict to you it will continue to be a loser's game."
I guess George Soros was not invited, eh?
People are making money - but, it might be selling the gloom & doom idea of the next market crash.
Quote from: Solar on September 19, 2017, 05:23:56 AM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Today that's seen by leftist as abuse. Leftists just higher an illegal to do the work while the child rots on the vine.
People think I'm nuts for having a pack of JB Weld, bailing wire and duct tape in all my vehicles.
No tool kit is complete without wd-40. :lol: Good idea on the JB Weld though, I need to go pick some up. Could have used it today.
Quote from: s3779m on September 20, 2017, 04:21:45 PM
No tool kit is complete without wd-40. :lol: Good idea on the JB Weld though, I need to go pick some up. Could have used it today.
I keep having the stuff dry out after opening. Guess I'd be best off with little tubes of JB weld instead of the large, economy size.
My brother used it to seal a hole in a tractor's crank case from a thrown rod. Lasted for years & years.
Quote from: Solar on July 18, 2017, 10:29:21 AM
I like to play the market in my mind, not Wall Street, a fixed monopoly via Cronyism, but I like to look at the future and try and predict trends.
Take Harley for example, they are looking death in the eye, assuming they don't make changes, like marketing to Millennial', simply because the generation that made them rich is dying off, and because this is happening, there's a glut of cheap used Harley's hitting the mkt and killing new sales.
Harley-Davidson Profit Falls As Slide in Motorcycle Sales Continues
Revenue drops 9% as company seeks to broaden its appeal at home and abroad
By Andrew Tangel
Oct. 17, 2017 8:40 a.m. ET
Harley-Davidson Inc. on Tuesday reported a 40% drop in quarterly profit as global sales of its motorcycles continued to slide.
Revenue fell 9% to $1.2 billion in the third quarter as the Milwaukee-based company retained guidance for shipping 241,000 to 246,000 motorcycles to dealers world-wide in 2017, down 6-8% from last year.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/harley-davidson-profit-falls-as-slide-in-motorcycle-sales-continues-1508244036
One year ago, while my co-workers were predicting the stock market CRASH, selling stock and buying Gold & Silver bars, I got laughter when I said the DOW would hit 23k before anything negative happened - that they'd miss out on the ascent. I went full market with my 401k, and GLAD I did.
All I was going on was the POSITIVE message Donald Trump was bringing to America. Nothing else has changed, very little to warrant this kind of market boom.
I'm just lucky, probably. I predict, if there is no roll back of Obamacare, and no corporate tax relief, the DOW will have stalled by the elections next year, never reaching the 25k mark. If Obamacare is repealed within the year, -AND- corporate taxes are cut by at least 1/2, we'll be talking about 28k as a new potential high, within one year of both the repeal & tax reduction. Just my GUT feeling.
NO... I do not believe Jesus is going to return Oct 23rd, 2017 - but that the date will get reset again, and again. Nor do I believe North Korea or Iran will attack the Continental USA, or California will see a 7.0 earthquake, or life will return to "normal" in Puerto Rico by the next election, or Hillary will be brought up on charges, or Jeff Sessions & Mitch McConnell will still hold any seat in government, by the next election in 2018. Just my gut feeling.
I also think some unexpected, bad stuff is on the horizon for Internet commerce in general, that retail sales will start to return to brick-n-mortar stores out of cyber security concerns, outright theft, and delivery failure/thefts. I believe the next big target for thieves, on a wholesale scale, will come to light in every stage of Internet commerce, creating such an overall distrust, people will begin to turn away from Internet sales. I also believe the government is going to stick their fingers into everything Internet related, as a result, and further exasperate the problems, under the guise of taxation & IP security & Net Neutrality. Again, a gut feeling - if something is going fairly good, leave it to politicians to muck it all up, because a couple of individuals got burnt.
A well known radio talk-show host will have a major personal melt-down and take "time out" to reassess the situation. No tea leaves, just a gut feeling. I think there will be civil war in South America, involving at least 3 entities, by next year's election.
Quote from: Ghoulardi on July 18, 2017, 05:42:25 PM
A great article overall.
My observation is that Millennials want to appear being non-conformist and rebels. So what are they conforming to? Other Millennials. True non-conformist would not all look alike. True rebels would not all spout the same trite phrases. At the end of the day, the so-called non-conformist are really conforming to Non-Conformity.
(https://jamysworldofthoughts.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/tumblr_lyovx7qwyc1r4gjuno1_500.jpg?w=300&h=219)
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Thanks G, sorry, I never saw this post. Shhh, but don't tell them that.