Quote from: joesixpack on June 20, 2020, 05:51:01 PM
I don't know. I'm sure you'll educate us, though. 

According to the chart above from the article that you and Solar quoted, it was flat.

Is that all you do, is look at pretty pictures? You were given solid stats, and how they spun the numbers. What a fuckin moron!

Quote from: Solar on June 22, 2020, 06:46:48 AM
Is that all you do, is look at pretty pictures? You were given solid stats, and how they spun the numbers. What a fuckin moron!

Yup...and when you "unspin" the numbers, the pre-covid Unemployment rate for Trump was 21% vs 23% when Obama left.

That was directly from the article that you posted.

Quote from: joesixpack on June 22, 2020, 07:47:32 PM
Yup...and when you "unspin" the numbers, the pre-covid Unemployment rate for Trump was 21% vs 23% when Obama left.

That was directly from the article that you posted.

This is your last chance Joe.  No more trolling.

Last time: How was the unemployment rate dropping under Obama if people were leaving the workforce in droves?  Either concede it's not possible, or explain how it is.

Quote from: joesixpack on June 22, 2020, 07:47:32 PM
Yup...and when you "unspin" the numbers, the pre-covid Unemployment rate for Trump was 21% vs 23% when Obama left.

That was directly from the article that you posted.

And yet, you conveniently missed this.

The Brookings data, along with surveys conducted by Gallup, show that far from adding 200,000 jobs through the "Birth/Death" model, a more accurate report would have subtracted 70,000 jobs a month to account for the jobs that disappeared when firms died.

That would be another 840,000 annual jobs (or 2.5 million jobs subtracted since 2014). All told, 6.95 million (or 75%) of the officially announced 9.15 million jobs supposedly created through the first quarter of 2016 were fake.

I should point out that might actually be a low estimate, as the BLS inflates jobs estimates with seasonal-adjustment shenanigans that result in double counting of the same fake jobs, and other frauds that are too complicated to get into here."

Quote from: taxed on June 22, 2020, 08:08:27 PM
This is your last chance Joe.  No more trolling.

Last time: How was the unemployment rate dropping under Obama if people were leaving the workforce in droves?  Either concede it's not possible, or explain how it is.

Is it possible not to have all of the knowledge in the world? Because I don't. If you know the answer, share it with the public, please.

All I know, is that the LFPR has gone from 81% to 83% since 2016.

The official unemployment rate has gone from 4% to 3% since 2016.

The unemployment rate that was used in the article from you and Solar went from about 23% to 22%. And that's the one that takes into account the "imaginary jobs" Obama added.

https://banyanhill.com/fake-jobs-plague-u-s-economy/

I think that the OP is correct, the economy was not all that impressive (when compared to the previous Administration). It's been a great run, though.

Quote from: Solar on June 22, 2020, 08:28:50 PM
And yet, you conveniently missed this.

The Brookings data, along with surveys conducted by Gallup, show that far from adding 200,000 jobs through the "Birth/Death" model, a more accurate report would have subtracted 70,000 jobs a month to account for the jobs that disappeared when firms died.

That would be another 840,000 annual jobs (or 2.5 million jobs subtracted since 2014). All told, 6.95 million (or 75%) of the officially announced 9.15 million jobs supposedly created through the first quarter of 2016 were fake.

I should point out that might actually be a low estimate, as the BLS inflates jobs estimates with seasonal-adjustment shenanigans that result in double counting of the same fake jobs, and other frauds that are too complicated to get into here."

I get it. You don't trust the BLS numbers under Obama. I'm guessing that you trust the current numbers. They've been perfectly consistent, though.

Maybe, though, you trust the unemployment rate in the article you posted more. Even that one has been consistent. The rate has gone down by 1-ish% since Trump's inauguration.

Quote from: joesixpack on June 22, 2020, 08:38:04 PM
Is it possible not to have all of the knowledge in the world? Because I don't. If you know the answer, share it with the public, please.

All I know, is that the LFPR has gone from 81% to 83% since 2016.

The official unemployment rate has gone from 4% to 3% since 2016.

The unemployment rate that was used in the article from you and Solar went from about 23% to 22%. And that's the one that takes into account the "imaginary jobs" Obama added.

https://banyanhill.com/fake-jobs-plague-u-s-economy/

I think that the OP is correct, the economy was not all that impressive (when compared to the previous Administration). It's been a great run, though.

You're getting a three day timeout.  I've asked you REPEATEDLY to explain how the unemployment rate can improve when people have given up looking for work and are not counted in the labor force, but you refuse to address it and just say "but Trump".  It shouldn't be that hard for you to explain the data you present.

See you Thursday.

Quote from: joesixpack on June 22, 2020, 08:38:04 PM
Is it possible not to have all of the knowledge in the world? Because I don't. If you know the answer, share it with the public, please.

All I know, is that the LFPR has gone from 81% to 83% since 2016.

The official unemployment rate has gone from 4% to 3% since 2016.

The unemployment rate that was used in the article from you and Solar went from about 23% to 22%. And that's the one that takes into account the "imaginary jobs" Obama added.

https://banyanhill.com/fake-jobs-plague-u-s-economy/

I think that the OP is correct, the economy was not all that impressive (when compared to the previous Administration). It's been a great run, though.

When you get back, lets hear what your best guess is.

Quote from: joesixpack on June 22, 2020, 08:49:18 PM
I get it. You don't trust the BLS numbers under Obama. I'm guessing that you trust the current numbers. They've been perfectly consistent, though.

Maybe, though, you trust the unemployment rate in the article you posted more. Even that one has been consistent. The rate has gone down by 1-ish% since Trump's inauguration.

Why are you in complete denial that your Marxist admin lied? Did you not think for a second if trump's numbers weren't real, that the entire world wouldn't expose them?

Obozos were fraud, it's right in front of you! The guy forced the nation's employers to cut full-time workers or pay a hefty "Fee" to keep them on, he literally gutted full time employment in this country so as to give the appearance of more people working, by counting second jobs.

Trump on the other hand, actually gutted Obozos red tape and allowed business to hire unfettered, gutted the EPA and allowed manufacturing to once again ramp up.
Your Marxist did everything he could do to destroy the American economy, and here you are delusionally defending fraud numbers?

Why should we even take you as serious, you're a liar and a fraud, you don't want the truth, you hope to obscure it just enough to befuddle the reader. Well I got news for you, most are not Dims, so they can actually see just how full of shit you are.

Most Dims aren't smart enough to understand the economy, that's why they vote Dim, they're too stupid to see the Dim party is trying to destroy the USA. Oh wait, I just described you...

Quote from: taxed on June 22, 2020, 11:25:48 PM
You're getting a three day timeout.  I've asked you REPEATEDLY to explain how the unemployment rate can improve when people have given up looking for work and are not counted in the labor force, but you refuse to address it and just say "but Trump".  It shouldn't be that hard for you to explain the data you present.

See you Thursday.

I hope that this time has been long enough for you to calm down. I know it can be difficult reading information that contradicts with your Personal or Political Identity. You shouldn't determine who you are as a person by your political affiliation. You are many things before a Trump fan. A man, a son, maybe a dad or sibling. A (insert job title), etc. Don't be blinded by faith.

The premise of this thread is still accurate to me. As I showed before, judging by the metrics that you provided in your Op-Ed, it's been a trend of success for this country since the lows of the Great Recession.

If we're going to continue our discussion, it's because you accept the Data from FRED, BLS, etc., that even you used, as fact. 

If you refuse to accept the data, then there's no point in conversing any further.

And just for good measure, I'll leave these here since you keep juxtaposing the two metrics:




If anyone reading this can find a consistent correlation between LFPR and the Unemployment Rate please tell us what it is.

I don't see how one relates to the other. They're useful metrics, but not directly related.

And since you're curious about why the LFPR has gone down, I'll just leave this here for you all to peruse:

https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-google&sxsrf=ALeKk00yaeGOUqKEQPUFDOt4HKVDSIEQKQ%3A1592994412071&ei=bCrzXqb4A8S0tQWKwrCQDA&q=why+is+the+labor+force+participation+rate+declining&oq=whylabor+force+participation+rate&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAEYADIGCAAQBxAeMgYIABAHEB4yBggAEAcQHjIGCAAQBxAeMgYIABAHEB4yBggAEAcQHjIGCAAQBxAeMgYIABAHEB46BAgAEEc6BAgjECc6AggAOgcIABAUEIcCUML1IVjerSJgw9wiaABwAXgBgAHsAYgBpBySAQYwLjI2LjKYAQCgAQE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#ip=1

Many paid professionals have their thoughts on this...I'm not one of them. I'm just a guy online having discussions and learning as I go.

Shoot, I just found out that Men have been consistently dropping out of the Labor Force since 1950.

Quote from: Solar on June 23, 2020, 04:57:25 AM
Why are you in complete denial that your Marxist admin lied? Did you not think for a second if trump's numbers weren't real, that the entire world wouldn't expose them?

Obozos were fraud, it's right in front of you! The guy forced the nation's employers to cut full-time workers or pay a hefty "Fee" to keep them on, he literally gutted full time employment in this country so as to give the appearance of more people working, by counting second jobs.

Trump on the other hand, actually gutted Obozos red tape and allowed business to hire unfettered, gutted the EPA and allowed manufacturing to once again ramp up.
Your Marxist did everything he could do to destroy the American economy, and here you are delusionally defending fraud numbers?

Why should we even take you as serious, you're a liar and a fraud, you don't want the truth, you hope to obscure it just enough to befuddle the reader. Well I got news for you, most are not Dims, so they can actually see just how full of shit you are.

Most Dims aren't smart enough to understand the economy, that's why they vote Dim, they're too stupid to see the Dim party is trying to destroy the USA. Oh wait, I just described you...

If you're not going to accept the same data for Obama that you do for Trump we have nothing to discuss.

I'm using the exact same information that Taxed used, but I'm not blinded enough to say that it's "Fake News".

For example, taxed noted that Manufacturing jobs came back to America, but if you look at the numbers, there was modest increase of about 500 jobs in the last 3 years. That's not a Great American Comeback, imo.

I truly do agree with the premise of this thread, just going off the numbers, of course.

Like I told taxed, don't take what I say as a personal slight to your identity. You're more than a Trump supporter. Accept the information as factual, so that we can have a discussion grounded in truth.

Quote from: joesixpack on June 26, 2020, 05:25:23 AM
If you're not going to accept the same data for Obama that you do for Trump we have nothing to discuss.

I'm using the exact same information that Taxed used, but I'm not blinded enough to say that it's "Fake News".

For example, taxed noted that Manufacturing jobs came back to America, but if you look at the numbers, there was modest increase of about 500 jobs in the last 3 years. That's not a Great American Comeback, imo.

I truly do agree with the premise of this thread, just going off the numbers, of course.

Like I told taxed, don't take what I say as a personal slight to your identity. You're more than a Trump supporter. Accept the information as factual, so that we can have a discussion grounded in truth.

You fool! The data and chart do not meet with reality, anyone can spin data to fit any chart they want.
If you want to make your case, do some actual digging into the numbers and I guarantee you, they aren't gibing up all the data and we'll prove it!

Question. Are you seriously trying to compare the worst Depression in American history to the greatest economic revival in history, the strongest economy in the world?
Seriously?