Author Topic: Time Equals Profit for Banks  (Read 5104 times)

Offline Econ4Every1

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Time Equals Profit for Banks
« on: December 23, 2016, 11:52:34 AM »

Banks are not lending out customer deposits. Banks create their own little IOU which they then denominate in the federal government’s unit of account (the US dollar - $). In other words, they peg their IOU to the government’s currency. In doing so, the bank agrees to exchange its IOU for US dollars on demand. The peg to the US dollar also makes the bank’s IOU acceptable to extinguish any taxes that you might owe to the US government, thus allowing the IOU to behave as “money”.

When the bank approves your loan, a deposit is created at that time. The bank simply types numbers in an account equal to the loan value. So, if you obtained a loan for $30,000, the bank types “30,000”. At this point, the IOUs are not “money”; you have to spend the deposit first. When you withdraw/spend those IOUs, the bank then exchanges its IOU for US dollars. The operation is simple and clear. We will assume that you do not bank at Chase but obtained a loan from Chase and that you are buying a car from a dealer who banks at Bank of America.

When you purchase the car, the dealer deposits the 30,000 in his account. $30,000 of Chase's reserves held at the Federal Reserve shift to Bank of America's reserve account at the Federal Reserve. The car dealer's checking account rises by 30,000 and the payment clears. End of transaction.

But you obtained a loan, so it’s not the end.

When you obtained the loan, you agreed to give Chase your IOU in exchange, which it is now holding and it shows that you owe Chase $30,000. Furthermore, for the privilege of Chase creating some money for you to buy a car, Chase charges you a fee called “interest”. Over time, as you make payments, you gradually shift reserves back to Chase from your bank until the 30,000 is extinguished. Yet, with each payment, there is “extra” wrapped inside of it. That “extra” is interest. When the loan is paid off, the 30,000 Chase IOUs are extinguished and what remains is profit for Chase.

So, the lesson here is:

The more private debt expands, the greater the profit potential for banks. As long as loans are not paid off early, the bank will realize the profit in full that it expects from the loan. Pay off early and you short the bank’s profit.

The way that you expand private debt is by slashing the federal deficit and suppressing wages. Persistently reducing the federal deficit increases the consumer spending gap, which you then fill with bank loans and credit cards, so that consumers have “extra money” to consume goods and services. Coupled with an environment of wage suppression, consumers simply do not have the dollars they need to buy even the basic necessities (food, clothing for the kids, toothpaste, etc.) By supplementing their insufficient incomes with credit cards, they now proceed to purchase everyday essentials by swiping credit cards; items they would normally have purchased with their wages were those wages sufficient. The more that you slash the federal deficit, the more outstanding loans that you ensure cannot be paid off early.

In the end, when consumers cannot take on any more private debt, consumer spending contracts, business loses income, business lays off workers, unemployment rises and a recession occurs. There is no forgiveness for credit cards and loans, there is no bailout for consumers - consumers will still have to pay what they owe, though they are not responsible for the recession.

Once more, I will repeat President Obama’s words again for clarity. In 2009, Obama asked that you be willing to take on even more private debt for the sake of “economic growth”:
“…although there are a lot of Americans who understandably think that government money would be better spent going directly to families and businesses instead of banks, “Where is our bailout?,” they ask, the truth is that a dollar of capital in a bank can actually result in eight or ten dollars of loans to families and businesses, a multiplier effect that can ultimately lead to a faster pace of economic growth.”

And so, we arrive at 2016 and we hear, “Under Obama, the economy has recovered, unemployment is low and all is well.” Factually, the economy has never recovered. What has been hailed as the longest stretch of job growth in US history is actually the slowest recovery in US history. Since the crisis, there has been a bias towards low wage underemployment, which is now rampant. But above all, the federal deficit continues to be slashed in the face of a current account deficit, and so once more, the so-called “job growth” in the US economy has been fueled in the most unstable and irresponsible manner possible.

You can thank the Wall Street-backed Democratic establishment for that.

Online Solar

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Re: Time Equals Profit for Banks
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2016, 04:19:32 PM »
To our readership. This individual in no way reflects the opinion of CPF.
Not only that, he does not reflect the opinions of any qualified economist and needs to find a new moniker.
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Offline Econ4Every1

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Re: Time Equals Profit for Banks
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2016, 10:19:08 PM »
To our readership. This individual in no way reflects the opinion of CPF.
Not only that, he does not reflect the opinions of any qualified economist and needs to find a new moniker.

To CPF's readership.  Note the silence, at least to this point, in actually rebutting what I've said.  Hopefully, that speaks volumes.

Oh and don't be fooled when the CPF faithful claim they "don't have time".  Also, don't be surprised when the subject of responses is the writer, rather than the content of the OP.

-Cheers

Offline s3779m

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Re: Time Equals Profit for Banks
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2016, 04:38:10 AM »
To CPF's readership.  Note the silence, at least to this point, in actually rebutting what I've said.  Hopefully, that speaks volumes.

Oh and don't be fooled when the CPF faithful claim they "don't have time".  Also, don't be surprised when the subject of responses is the writer, rather than the content of the OP.

-Cheers
I'm guessing the no response is not from "don't have time" but from the fact of having read your other thread and found it full of bull shit. Your comments were shot full of holes and it was YOU who did not answer.  Here's to hoping you can find something better to do.  Cheers

Offline Econ4Every1

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Re: Time Equals Profit for Banks
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2016, 08:17:09 AM »
I'm guessing the no response is not from "don't have time" but from the fact of having read your other thread and found it full of bull shit. Your comments were shot full of holes and it was YOU who did not answer.  Here's to hoping you can find something better to do.  Cheers

The silence is deafening.

Online walkstall

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Re: Time Equals Profit for Banks
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2016, 08:37:06 AM »
The silence is deafening.

That or your post are to long.  I myself find them a waste of my time reading.  That and you posts should be in The Nut House.
A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

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Online Solar

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Re: Time Equals Profit for Banks
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2016, 08:39:08 AM »
The silence is deafening.
It's not that what you know is necessarily wrong, it's your conclusions based on limited knowledge/facts that bring you to false ratiocinations.
Yes, some of what you say can be spot on, but it's what you don't know that inhibits your ability to understand and grasp the entire picture.

You have much to learn and Mises is a great starting point, so I suggest you read the following link, with the knowledge that both party's are trying to run our country based on socialist ideas.

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/bios/Mises.html
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Offline Econ4Every1

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Re: Time Equals Profit for Banks
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2016, 08:38:43 PM »
It's not that what you know is necessarily wrong, it's your conclusions based on limited knowledge/facts that bring you to false ratiocinations.
Yes, some of what you say can be spot on, but it's what you don't know that inhibits your ability to understand and grasp the entire picture.

You have much to learn and Mises is a great starting point, so I suggest you read the following link, with the knowledge that both party's are trying to run our country based on socialist ideas.

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/bios/Mises.html

I don't know, or you are incapable of realizing that the economy fundamentally changed in early 1970's but your understanding of economics did not.

For example...

Under a gold standard, assuming ceteris paribus, every dollar spent into the economy without an equal amount of gold obtained will cause other dollars in the economy to decrease in value as each dollar had a claim on the gold that backed them, even if only in part.

Thus, if the government had created  $1 million dollars and spent that money and mined exactly $1 million dollars in gold (or whatever the appropriate ratio is), then the dollars the government created would not end with inflation, would it?

Today, dollars aren't backed by gold, they are instead a claim on any good or service priced in dollars. 

Thus, if the government creates $1 million dollars and purchases $1 million dollars in productivity (assuming that what it purchases are of reasonable use or desire to the private sector), then inflation is unlikely to occur, unless, again, as I've said, there are shortages of labor and resources.

Online Solar

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Re: Time Equals Profit for Banks
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2016, 09:54:37 PM »
I don't know, or you are incapable of realizing that the economy fundamentally changed in early 1970's but your understanding of economics did not.

For example...

Under a gold standard, assuming ceteris paribus, every dollar spent into the economy without an equal amount of gold obtained will cause other dollars in the economy to decrease in value as each dollar had a claim on the gold that backed them, even if only in part.

Thus, if the government had created  $1 million dollars and spent that money and mined exactly $1 million dollars in gold (or whatever the appropriate ratio is), then the dollars the government created would not end with inflation, would it?

Today, dollars aren't backed by gold, they are instead a claim on any good or service priced in dollars. 

Thus, if the government creates $1 million dollars and purchases $1 million dollars in productivity (assuming that what it purchases are of reasonable use or desire to the private sector), then inflation is unlikely to occur, unless, again, as I've said, there are shortages of labor and resources.
You just made my point. You foolishly believe the so called Deficit numbers, as if they are the only liabilities the US has, when in truth, we are in debt somewhere around 200 and 30 trillion in unfunded liabilities, and it only gets worse every quarter.
Stop blindly believing all the bull shit the govt tells you, they only tell you what they want you to believe.

Here's an article North wrote a few years back that may open your eyes a bit.

http://www.garynorth.com/public/11776.cfm
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Offline Econ4Every1

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Re: Time Equals Profit for Banks
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2016, 09:06:04 AM »
You just made my point. You foolishly believe the so called Deficit numbers, as if they are the only liabilities the US has, when in truth, we are in debt somewhere around 200 and 30 trillion in unfunded liabilities, and it only gets worse every quarter.
Stop blindly believing all the bull shit the govt tells you, they only tell you what they want you to believe.

Here's an article North wrote a few years back that may open your eyes a bit.

http://www.garynorth.com/public/11776.cfm

First.  You didn't actually respond to my post again.  You do what you often do which is move the goalpost without addressing the content of my response, directly anyway.

I think the WP nailed it....

"The numbers are big, but are lacking a lot of context. This is what is known as “unfunded obligation through the infinite horizon.” According to the Social Security trustees, that amounts to $23.1 trillion for Social Security.  And the figure through 2087 — some 75 years from now — is actually just $9.6 trillion.

But a better way to express these numbers is as a percentage of the gross domestic product, the broadest measure of the U.S. economy. That $23 trillion turns out to be 1.4 percent of GDP, or 4 percent of taxable payroll.

Depending on which economist you consult, this is either manageable or a potential problem. There is certainly a gap, and either payroll taxes or federal individual and corporate income taxes would need to be raised, possibly significantly, in order to close it."


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2013/10/23/does-the-united-states-have-128-trillion-in-unfunded-liabilities/?utm_term=.76a9b68c8d22

Furthermore, I addressed this in the OP, the dollar is not backed by gold.  When the government creates and spends money to pay for these obligations, it is creating the productivity that backs the value of the dollars created.  This increases GDP relative to the spending it must do to pay for it's programs.

So go back and address the OP or this conversation grinds to a halt before it begins.

Online Solar

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Re: Time Equals Profit for Banks
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2016, 07:12:31 PM »
First.  You didn't actually respond to my post again.  You do what you often do which is move the goalpost without addressing the content of my response, directly anyway.


Because I can't respond to something so full of holes.

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I think the WP nailed it....
WP?
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"The numbers are big, but are lacking a lot of context. This is what is known as “unfunded obligation through the infinite horizon.” According to the Social Security trustees, that amounts to $23.1 trillion for Social Security.  And the figure through 2087 — some 75 years from now — is actually just $9.6 trillion.

But a better way to express these numbers is as a percentage of the gross domestic product, the broadest measure of the U.S. economy. That $23 trillion turns out to be 1.4 percent of GDP, or 4 percent of taxable payroll.

What 23 trillion? Try 223 trillion in unfunded liabilities.(2010 numbers)

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Depending on which economist you consult, this is either manageable or a potential problem. There is certainly a gap, and either payroll taxes or federal individual and corporate income taxes would need to be raised, possibly significantly, in order to close it."[/i]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2013/10/23/does-the-united-states-have-128-trillion-in-unfunded-liabilities/?utm_term=.76a9b68c8d22

Furthermore, I addressed this in the OP, the dollar is not backed by gold.  When the government creates and spends money to pay for these obligations, it is creating the productivity that backs the value of the dollars created.  This increases GDP relative to the spending it must do to pay for it's programs.

So go back and address the OP or this conversation grinds to a halt before it begins.
You fail to grasp one key ingredient. They're lying to you! We're spending today, what the next generation will be burdened with.
You seem to think the game is on the level, like playing roulette in a casino, problem is, the game is totally rigged, and even if by pure luck you were to win, the rules are spelled out in such a way, that you'd still wind up paying.
You seem to think Obozo is actually lowering the debt, yet every year he gets another continuing resolution, (not a balanced budget) and every year we run deeper in debt.

It's like the unemployment numbers, where the govt creates the illusion that his figures are merely a couple of percentage points off for where Bush stood, but those are the U-1 numbers, the truth is closer to U-6, but even those are blatant lies because Commiecare killed off millions of full-time jobs, in turn splitting them in two.
So what happens when everyone suddenly works part time? The govt records that as employed.

Point being, the numbers you rattle off are all faked, it really is that simple, and we're in a world of hurt over it.
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Offline Econ4Every1

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Re: Time Equals Profit for Banks
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2016, 09:49:27 PM »
Because I can't respond to something so full of holes.

Translation:  "I don't know how to respond."

WP?

You can't possibly be that obtuse?



What 23 trillion? Try 223 trillion in unfunded liabilities.(2010 numbers)

Reading is fundamental my friend, the article was isolating just the Social Security component of "unfunded liabilities".

You fail to grasp one key ingredient. They're lying to you! We're spending today, what the next generation will be burdened with.
You seem to think the game is on the level, like playing roulette in a casino, problem is, the game is totally rigged, and even if by pure luck you were to win, the rules are spelled out in such a way, that you'd still wind up paying.
You seem to think Obozo is actually lowering the debt, yet every year he gets another continuing resolution, (not a balanced budget) and every year we run deeper in debt.

So it's the next generation that will have this terrible burden?  What about the last generation, or the generation before that, or before that?  We've been running a "debt" for most of our nation's 250-year history.  Why haven't any of those generations had to suffer this terrible burden you claim is right around the corner?

It's like the unemployment numbers, where the govt creates the illusion that his figures are merely a couple of percentage points off for where Bush stood, but those are the U-1 numbers, the truth is closer to U-6, but even those are blatant lies because Commiecare killed off millions of full-time jobs, in turn splitting them in two.

I won't defend the government's reporting on unemployment.  The sheep just take what their given and believe what they see on TV.  If anyone honored their civic duty they'ed take the time to look up the numbers for themselves.  The government posts everything you need to know.  You just have to take the time to look them up.

So what happens when everyone suddenly works part time? The govt records that as employed.

Agreed, and when a person making $80k gets laid off and takes a job at Walmart because they can't find work in their field, there is no accounting for their under-employment.

Point being, the numbers you rattle off are all faked, it really is that simple, and we're in a world of hurt over it.

As usual, all silly assertions with no facts.  But I'm quickly learning that facts don't matter to people like you. 

Online Solar

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Re: Time Equals Profit for Banks
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2016, 05:48:19 AM »
Translation:  "I don't know how to respond."
Problem is, there is no debating a false premise.

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You can't possibly be that obtuse?

Cut the bull shit troll, either quit being lazy and spell it out, or don't bother posting.
WP is not standard anywhere but within their own editorial desk, and neither you or I work there.
Google comes up with
Wikipedia White phosphorus WordPress Warsaw Pact Wojsko Polskie

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Reading is fundamental my friend, the article was isolating just the Social Security component of "unfunded liabilities".
Like I'm about to read drivel from a leftist rag supporting more leftist BS?
Get real troll, nothing comes from that rag deserving anything beyond cage liner for parrots.
 
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So it's the next generation that will have this terrible burden?  What about the last generation, or the generation before that, or before that?  We've been running a "debt" for most of our nation's 250-year history.  Why haven't any of those generations had to suffer this terrible burden you claim is right around the corner?

Actually, we agree, it was the last generation that burdened us with this bloated govt concept, an idea that we must accept whatever they throw at us, every lie they tell is irrefutable because they are the final arbiter and we have no other recourse.
Had the previous generation stopped the growth of govt when it had a chance, maybe we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today, which is why we're here now fighting this nonsense you claim is a working economy. Nothing could be further from the truth!

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I won't defend the government's reporting on unemployment.  The sheep just take what their given and believe what they see on TV.  If anyone honored their civic duty they'ed take the time to look up the numbers for themselves.  The government posts everything you need to know.  You just have to take the time to look them up.
Wow, and like a good little lemming, you believe what you just wrote.
Let me translate. The govt may lie, but they give us all the information to prove they lie.
Let that absorb for a moment, shall we? Now had you read what I posted and quit relying on leftist rags as your source for God knows what, you'd have realized the govt does not give you all the data on purpose for a reason. Can you guess what that reason is?

Here, let me quote an important part of the article, and this time read it, dammit!

Jim Puplava: Professor, when the CBO publishes its projections they use something called the extended baseline forecast. They also have something called the alternative fiscal scenario, which is basically more realistic. This year they reported only the extended baseline forecast. Why did they do that?

Professor Kotlikoff: I don’t know. They claim it wasn’t for political reasons and I believe them. There are very good economists at the CBO. The director is a very good economist, but you have to wonder why is it that for the last 6 or 7 years they put out the extended baseline as well as the alternative fiscal scenario at the same time so everybody could see what they really project versus what really amounts to a lie about the fiscal future of the country.

I sent him [head of the CBO] an email and asked whether he was under some sort of political pressure to withhold this information and he said that was a big insult, and he was very upset with me for suggesting that. But then he said that the reason he hadn’t released it was because they didn’t think anyone was interested. I said, well obviously we’re interested—it’s the only thing worth looking at.

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Agreed, and when a person making $80k gets laid off and takes a job at Walmart because they can't find work in their field, there is no accounting for their under-employment.
[/i]
Did you get that? They purposely avoided giving out all the information because they claim no one cares.
Think about that, the CBO is charged with disseminating facts and information to the general public, but leave out the most important part, because they claim we're not interested. So why release any information in the first place if no one reads it anyway?

As usual, all silly assertions with no facts.  But I'm quickly learning that facts don't matter to people like you.
Facts? You quote a leftist rag and claim you're posting facts? WTF?
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Offline Econ4Every1

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Re: Time Equals Profit for Banks
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2016, 08:26:58 AM »
Problem is, there is no debating a false premise.

Of course you can debate a false premise.  Just state why it's false......With facts, not conjecture or assertions.

Cut the bull shit troll, either quit being lazy and spell it out, or don't bother posting.

You can't be bothered to read down 4 sentenses and I'm lazy?   :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

WP is not standard anywhere but within their own editorial desk, and neither you or I work there.

Again, stop being lazy and let your eyes drift to the bottom of the paragraph....

Actually, we agree, it was the last generation that burdened us with this bloated govt concept, an idea that we must accept whatever they throw at us, every lie they tell is irrefutable because they are the final arbiter and we have no other recourse.
Had the previous generation stopped the growth of govt when it had a chance, maybe we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today...

Define "growth of government" for me?

which is why we're here now fighting this nonsense you claim is a working economy. Nothing could be further from the truth!

You seriously have a reading comprehension problem.  Where did I say we have a "working economy"?

Wow, and like a good little lemming, you believe what you just wrote.
Let me translate. The govt may lie, but they give us all the information to prove they lie.

No, the government does lie and yes if you look hard enough, you can find the information to demonstrate it.

Let that absorb for a moment, shall we? Now had you read what I posted and quit relying on leftist rags as your source for God knows what, you'd have realized the govt does not give you all the data on purpose for a reason. Can you guess what that reason is?

I don't rely on the Washington Post for anything.  In that case they happened to be right.  Rush and Beck and Jones are all Rightist hacks, but sometimes they are right.  Austrianism is about as destructive economic idea as there is, but that is still a lot of truth in the things that are said.

I think it was Aristotle that said, "It is the mark of an educated mind that can entertain an idea without accepting it".  You are so partisan you can't even see straight.  You can't even contemplate an idea if it doesn't come from a source that you accept.  You are the enemy of free people despite your fervent claims to the contrary.



Jim Puplava: Professor, when the CBO publishes its projections they use something called the extended baseline forecast. They also have something called the alternative fiscal scenario, which is basically more realistic. This year they reported only the extended baseline forecast. Why did they do that?

Professor Kotlikoff: I don’t know. They claim it wasn’t for political reasons and I believe them. There are very good economists at the CBO. The director is a very good economist, but you have to wonder why is it that for the last 6 or 7 years they put out the extended baseline as well as the alternative fiscal scenario at the same time so everybody could see what they really project versus what really amounts to a lie about the fiscal future of the country.

I sent him [head of the CBO] an email and asked whether he was under some sort of political pressure to withhold this information and he said that was a big insult, and he was very upset with me for suggesting that. But then he said that the reason he hadn’t released it was because they didn’t think anyone was interested. I said, well obviously we’re interested—it’s the only thing worth looking at.
Facts? You quote a leftist rag and claim you're posting facts? WTF?

The people at the CBO may be good econonomists, I don't know, but any claim about "unfunded liabilities" is a stupid one for reasons I've already made clear.

Online Solar

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Re: Time Equals Profit for Banks
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2016, 09:40:37 AM »
Of course you can debate a false premise.  Just state why it's false......With facts, not conjecture or assertions.
Jeeeez, I just posted an excerpt from an article explaining why it's a false premise, and here you are asking for proof? How thick are you? Oh wait, you used a leftist rag as your evidence. :rolleyes:

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You can't be bothered to read down 4 sentenses and I'm lazy?   :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Again, stop being lazy and let your eyes drift to the bottom of the paragraph....
Hell no! You just as well have quoted Keynes, they're both on the same level.

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Define "growth of government" for me?
Are you fuckin serious?

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You seriously have a reading comprehension problem.  Where did I say we have a "working economy"?
Your every thread on this forum to date!

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No, the government does lie and yes if you look hard enough, you can find the information to demonstrate it.
Yet you're willing to post their daTA AS IF IT MEANS SOMETHING?

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I don't rely on the Washington Post for anything.  In that case they happened to be right.  Rush and Beck and Jones are all Rightist hacks, but sometimes they are right.  Austrianism is about as destructive economic idea as there is, but that is still a lot of truth in the things that are said.
I'll let your post speak for itself. Those reading know exactly what's wrong with it.

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I think it was Aristotle that said, "It is the mark of an educated mind that can entertain an idea without accepting it".  You are so partisan you can't even see straight.  You can't even contemplate an idea if it doesn't come from a source that you accept.  You are the enemy of free people despite your fervent claims to the contrary.
Math knows no partisanship, 2+2 will always = 4, to even attempt to understand an opposing view makes me a participant in your insanity, and that sir, I will not take part in.

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The people at the CBO may be good econonomists, I don't know, but any claim about "unfunded liabilities" is a stupid one for reasons I've already made clear.
Which I gave evidence proving you wrong.
In Keynesian econ, it's easy to pretend truth is relevant to its surroundings, but in Austrian econ, where math is applied straight forward and the govt isn't allowed to print money out of thin air without consequence, it's a simple straightforward equation to project future earnings and losses.

Why is it so hard for you to understand basic math and simple principles of a balanced budget like all Americans have to deal with daily?
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