Author Topic: The European sovereign debt crisis keeps dragging on  (Read 2411 times)

Offline Dan

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The European sovereign debt crisis keeps dragging on
« on: October 21, 2011, 07:34:14 AM »
http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/20/news/international/sarkozy_merkel_europe_crisis/index.htm?hpt=wo_c2
 
I am beginning to doubt whether or not these guys have the political will to avert a financial meltdown in europe.
If you believe big government is the solution then you are a liberal. If you believe big government is the problem then you are a conservative.

Offline CubaLibre

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Re: The European sovereign debt crisis keeps dragging on
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2011, 06:04:12 AM »
It's like every time they say they have a plan, one of them backs out.

Offline Dan

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Re: The European sovereign debt crisis keeps dragging on
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2011, 06:58:14 AM »
It's like trying to herd 17 cats all at once. Their means of governance makes this an unworkable situation.
 
I am starting to get really pessimistic about where this is going to go.
If you believe big government is the solution then you are a liberal. If you believe big government is the problem then you are a conservative.

Offline Seawolf

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Re: The European sovereign debt crisis keeps dragging on
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2011, 03:15:21 PM »
http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/20/news/international/sarkozy_merkel_europe_crisis/index.htm?hpt=wo_c2
 
I am beginning to doubt whether or not these guys have the political will to avert a financial meltdown in europe.

It's going to crash.  There simply is not enough money to prop up all the nations within the Euro to keep from crashing.

Offline Dan

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Re: The European sovereign debt crisis keeps dragging on
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2011, 04:19:32 PM »
The real problem is that the Europeans will not cut their spending even when they are completely out of cash.
If you believe big government is the solution then you are a liberal. If you believe big government is the problem then you are a conservative.

Offline arpad

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Re: The European sovereign debt crisis keeps dragging on
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2011, 04:41:31 AM »
There's definitely a lot of belief that the European Union will fall apart and I'm beginning to think it will.

Alan Greenspan thinks so - link - although I think his reasoning, that the cultural difference between northern and souther Europe is what's driving the problem, is idiotic.

Italy, relatively speaking, is in decent shape and Ireland's in rotten shape. Sweden and Germany have always been somewhat schizophrenic in their approach to the socialism that's the underlying problem so don't suffer to the same extent from their socialism as Portugal and Greece do from theirs. Norway's got access to North Sea gas and oil as does England which helps them overcome some of the effects of their socialism.

Bottom line though is that the haves are getting pretty tired of funding the profligacy of the gimme-mores and sooner or later that tension's going to show up at the policy level. It may result in the collapse of the EU or there may come some sort of an accommodation to help keep the EU intact but change is on the way.

Offline Solar

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Re: The European sovereign debt crisis keeps dragging on
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2011, 07:06:43 AM »
 Dan's right, they are unwilling to cut spending which has but one outcome.
Even Italy can't come to any agreement, then again, these are the same idiots that put their scientists on trial for failing to predict an earthquake.

I see it like this, the Euro will difinitely go under, possibly by early next year, then there will be an effort to resuscitate it when reality hits them that can't even afford basic services.
Then survival will set in and they will once again pull back to their original borders and put up security stops to keep out the masses, particularly Germany since they are the most fluid of the zone..
But then again, I could be wrong, but I doubt it, just the time line maybe.
#WWG1WGA

Offline Dan

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Re: The European sovereign debt crisis keeps dragging on
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2011, 01:55:51 PM »
And if the Euro Zone collapses then that is going to put Germany in a severe bind because it will make their exports significantly more expensive to their European neighbors. This is gonna hit Europe harder than Japan's lost decade.
If you believe big government is the solution then you are a liberal. If you believe big government is the problem then you are a conservative.

Offline Solar

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Re: The European sovereign debt crisis keeps dragging on
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2011, 06:39:33 PM »
I wonder if China will bail out the Euro, they have been toying about buying Greece's debt.
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Offline CubaLibre

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Re: The European sovereign debt crisis keeps dragging on
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2011, 06:47:40 AM »
Apparently they came up with something. Question is, will it be enough?

Offline Dan

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Re: The European sovereign debt crisis keeps dragging on
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2011, 07:38:22 AM »
Just remember folks that China benefits greatly from a prosperous Europe. More so than the United States. If Europe falls then their trade surplus takes a huge hit and a big part of their hard currency reserves evaporate.
If you believe big government is the solution then you are a liberal. If you believe big government is the problem then you are a conservative.

Offline Solar

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Re: The European sovereign debt crisis keeps dragging on
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2011, 10:32:39 AM »
Just remember folks that China benefits greatly from a prosperous Europe. More so than the United States. If Europe falls then their trade surplus takes a huge hit and a big part of their hard currency reserves evaporate.
Its for reasons such as this, that we will never go to war with China, trading partners generally try and work things out.
We are dependent on China as much as they and the Eu is with us and China, and vice versa.
China has bigger problems to deal with, from wage inflation to resource problems.

Until the Eu gets its shit together, they will continue to flounder.
Even if China bails them out, unless they cut spending, they will be forever in debt to other countries.

Does anyone think they will survive as a one Nation Continent, or return to their original currencies being separate?
#WWG1WGA

Offline Dan

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Re: The European sovereign debt crisis keeps dragging on
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2011, 01:49:47 PM »
China also have it's own debt crisis. When you add up national, regional and city debt, it equals 80% of China's GDP. They got a little carrier away with the make work, aka infrastructure, projects
 
In 2-5 years the wheels will begin coming off the Chinese economy.
If you believe big government is the solution then you are a liberal. If you believe big government is the problem then you are a conservative.

 

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