Author Topic: The Bids Are In: Amazon Offered Up To $7 Billion In Tax Breaks ($140k Per Employ  (Read 213 times)

Online walkstall

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"There's a sucker born every minute" P. T. Barnum
The taxpayer is paying for all this.

The Bids Are In: Amazon Offered Up To $7 Billion In Tax Breaks ($140k Per Employee) For Second U.S. HQ

snip~
For the past several months, cities all across the country have been competing for the opportunity to host Amazon's second headquarters which promises $5 billion in capital investment and 50,000 new jobs over a period of time.  And now that the bids are in, we have the opportunity to review some of the staggering tax subsidies offered to one of Silicon Valley's biggest companies.

New Jersey apparently 'wins' the prize for 'biggest tax cuts' after offering $7 billion in state and city tax credits, or roughly $140,000 per job promised by Amazon...which should be plenty to once again thrust Bezos to the top of the world's richest list. Per Reuters:


more @
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-19/bids-are-amazon-offered-7-billion-tax-breaks-140k-employee-second-us-hq
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Offline TboneAgain

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Not so sure about this article. Seems to have a leftist edge to it.

First of all, Amazon isn't a Silicon Valley company, and never has been. It's been based in Seattle since its founding in 1995.

Second, how exactly do the tax abatements and other incentives wind up in Jeff Bezos' pocket? No matter where it's located, the new Amazon headquarters is projected to cost Amazon $5 billion in direct capital costs, and the payroll, which is projected to grow to 50,000 employees, is certainly substantial. Tax abatements are not direct payments. Taxes never collected are just that -- taxes never collected.

If you really want to calculate the costs to taxpayers, start adding up the forfeited tax revenues in the locations where they could NOT win Amazon's favor.
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Offline Hoofer

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Remember that  movie, "Rollerball"...?   The world is controlled & managed by Corporations.  Heck, they already got their hooks in Congress!   Now Bezos is going after states!
All animals are created equal; Some just take longer to cook.   Survival is keeping an eye on those around you...

Offline Solar

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Not so sure about this article. Seems to have a leftist edge to it.

First of all, Amazon isn't a Silicon Valley company, and never has been. It's been based in Seattle since its founding in 1995.

Second, how exactly do the tax abatements and other incentives wind up in Jeff Bezos' pocket? No matter where it's located, the new Amazon headquarters is projected to cost Amazon $5 billion in direct capital costs, and the payroll, which is projected to grow to 50,000 employees, is certainly substantial. Tax abatements are not direct payments. Taxes never collected are just that -- taxes never collected.

If you really want to calculate the costs to taxpayers, start adding up the forfeited tax revenues in the locations where they could NOT win Amazon's favor.
Yeah, pretty much par for the course. Sacramento did the exact same thing nearly 20 years ago when Packard Bell wanted to open up shop in the old Sac. Army Depot, the Capitol bent over backward to appease, though they got burned in the long run when PB Folded.
But you're correct, cities suffer, especially Dim run cities and know they have to give up taxes in the short term for what appears to be a long-term tax income base from the employees, as well as new housing etc.

Ca just discovered what it means to drive away industry when Hollyweird started taking their business out of state.
Shock, now they're offering tax incentives in hopes they'll return, but many flipped off Moonbeam and are staying away, just ask Georgia. :laugh:
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Offline Hoofer

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Yeah, pretty much par for the course. Sacramento did the exact same thing nearly 20 years ago when Packard Bell wanted to open up shop in the old Sac. Army Depot, the Capitol bent over backward to appease, though they got burned in the long run when PB Folded.
But you're correct, cities suffer, especially Dim run cities and know they have to give up taxes in the short term for what appears to be a long-term tax income base from the employees, as well as new housing etc.

Ca just discovered what it means to drive away industry when Hollyweird started taking their business out of state.
Shock, now they're offering tax incentives in hopes they'll return, but many flipped off Moonbeam and are staying away, just ask Georgia. :laugh:

Billboards last couple of years around North Carolina & So. Virginia were advertising for actors.  Well, considering what's been coming out of Hollywood - could a bunch of NASCAR Rednecks & Hayseeds do any worse?  Might be an improvement!
All animals are created equal; Some just take longer to cook.   Survival is keeping an eye on those around you...

Offline Solar

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Billboards last couple of years around North Carolina & So. Virginia were advertising for actors.  Well, considering what's been coming out of Hollywood - could a bunch of NASCAR Rednecks & Hayseeds do any worse?  Might be an improvement!
With the shit, Hollyweird is producing today? Anything produced anywhere else is going to be leaps and bounds better.
When you're the only player in the game, why strive for the best, when mediocre will suffice and while we're at it, let's produce a bunch of leftist themed shit as well.

This is the end of leftist Hollyweird, they killed the golden goose out of greed.
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Offline supsalemgr

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I am not for or against tax breaks for businesses desiring to move to a location. The key is what kind of deal the politicians strike with business. Usually, they get taken to the cleaners. We had one in Henderson County when Sierra Nevada were looking to build a east of the Mississippi brewery. They were straight with pols and the addition of this plant has been a real boom to the area. Our local CC is working with Sierra Nevada to offer courses in brewing which increases payroll in the county. They also offer tours and have restaurant and music venue. The yax incentives worked here.
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Offline Hoofer

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I am not for or against tax breaks for businesses desiring to move to a location. The key is what kind of deal the politicians strike with business. Usually, they get taken to the cleaners. We had one in Henderson County when Sierra Nevada were looking to build a east of the Mississippi brewery. They were straight with pols and the addition of this plant has been a real boom to the area. Our local CC is working with Sierra Nevada to offer courses in brewing which increases payroll in the county. They also offer tours and have restaurant and music venue. The yax incentives worked here.

Sierra Nevada Pale Ale - tried it, talk about a strange taste, never had Ale like that before - sort of a "chemical taste", I can't figure out.  It'll be the last thing to be finished out of the fridge.  Don't know what's with these micro-breweries lately, what happened to the "Beer taste" or "Hops"?   What's with the FRUIT in beer?  Is that something you'd want to cook a Bratwurst in - Lime water???

When a LARGE Tech Business built a HUGE data-center near here, the locals turned out to buy the construction workers lunch, a big BBQ, thanking the hundreds of people, passing out Tee-shirts & mugs, quite a bash.  (helps to be in the right place to score a free-bee, eh?).  While chatting 7-8yrs later, in a pretty nice restaurant with a couple of long-time locals, a few things I noted.

a.  Property values SOARED almost immediately.  People who could, "cashed in" and "moved out" to cheaper living.  Short lived boom, probably helped taxes & hurt the elderly & fixed income folks.
b.  Small businesses flourished, the little restaurants were / have been BUSY-busy-busy.
c.  Nobody from the community who actually works at there, their employees come from everywhere -but-...  Without a 4yr degree, the best they can do is still McDonalds or local businesses.
d.  There appears to be ZERO housing boom, most people would rather commute "82 miles" than live in a little "Hick town called Bored-town".
e.  The people working in the data-center, and I've talked to LOTS of them, all have one thing in common - LEAVE ASAP for somewhere else in the company (or another job).  Beyond 2-3 years, is a long time there - I've been going there from when it was a patch of dirt, know more people who have moved on than still work there, at all levels of employment, from the very bottom to the very top.  The group picture from opening is all faces who have quit, moved, died, or been fired.
f.   99% of the employees are Contract Labor, and their wages suck (they tell me).  What's in the parking lot, confirms it.

I've been to & thru this rural area for +15 years.   Still wondering what the DIRECT impact is/was that really improved the area, since it wasn't blighted, had steady recreational business, with really good roads and the Interstate was less than a dozen miles away, connecting them to 2 major metropolitan areas on the east coast.

Also, hate to say it, this big place could pull-the-plug tomorrow, go completly DARK...  would it make much of a difference to the local community?  Other than property values settling back to a reasonable level & more seating room in the restaurants, I really wonder how much the locals would miss the business?   Everyone is quite friendly, but... there's this "air of foreigner" about strangers.


Speaking of Amazon, and the visions of great jobs with great wages...
How much would you pay a guy to unload & load trucks, stock & pick from shelves, pack boxes, drive a truck, forklift, order entry, etc?
Ever wonder why those types of businesses look for rural, wage depressed regions with cheap land & electric rates, located along major rail and interstate routes?   Southern Virginia & Western North Carolina are open for business, right, Supsales?
All animals are created equal; Some just take longer to cook.   Survival is keeping an eye on those around you...

Offline supsalemgr

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Sierra Nevada Pale Ale - tried it, talk about a strange taste, never had Ale like that before - sort of a "chemical taste", I can't figure out.  It'll be the last thing to be finished out of the fridge.  Don't know what's with these micro-breweries lately, what happened to the "Beer taste" or "Hops"?   What's with the FRUIT in beer?  Is that something you'd want to cook a Bratwurst in - Lime water???

When a LARGE Tech Business built a HUGE data-center near here, the locals turned out to buy the construction workers lunch, a big BBQ, thanking the hundreds of people, passing out Tee-shirts & mugs, quite a bash.  (helps to be in the right place to score a free-bee, eh?).  While chatting 7-8yrs later, in a pretty nice restaurant with a couple of long-time locals, a few things I noted.

a.  Property values SOARED almost immediately.  People who could, "cashed in" and "moved out" to cheaper living.  Short lived boom, probably helped taxes & hurt the elderly & fixed income folks.
b.  Small businesses flourished, the little restaurants were / have been BUSY-busy-busy.
c.  Nobody from the community who actually works at there, their employees come from everywhere -but-...  Without a 4yr degree, the best they can do is still McDonalds or local businesses.
d.  There appears to be ZERO housing boom, most people would rather commute "82 miles" than live in a little "Hick town called Bored-town".
e.  The people working in the data-center, and I've talked to LOTS of them, all have one thing in common - LEAVE ASAP for somewhere else in the company (or another job).  Beyond 2-3 years, is a long time there - I've been going there from when it was a patch of dirt, know more people who have moved on than still work there, at all levels of employment, from the very bottom to the very top.  The group picture from opening is all faces who have quit, moved, died, or been fired.
f.   99% of the employees are Contract Labor, and their wages suck (they tell me).  What's in the parking lot, confirms it.

I've been to & thru this rural area for +15 years.   Still wondering what the DIRECT impact is/was that really improved the area, since it wasn't blighted, had steady recreational business, with really good roads and the Interstate was less than a dozen miles away, connecting them to 2 major metropolitan areas on the east coast.

Also, hate to say it, this big place could pull-the-plug tomorrow, go completly DARK...  would it make much of a difference to the local community?  Other than property values settling back to a reasonable level & more seating room in the restaurants, I really wonder how much the locals would miss the business?   Everyone is quite friendly, but... there's this "air of foreigner" about strangers.


Speaking of Amazon, and the visions of great jobs with great wages...
How much would you pay a guy to unload & load trucks, stock & pick from shelves, pack boxes, drive a truck, forklift, order entry, etc?
Ever wonder why those types of businesses look for rural, wage depressed regions with cheap land & electric rates, located along major rail and interstate routes?   Southern Virginia & Western North Carolina are open for business, right, Supsales?

WNC, especially Henderson County and Asheville, is flourishing.
"If you can't run with the big dawgs, stay on the porch!"

Offline Solar

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It depends. How much do you hate your community?
If this were to happen in my area? People would sell out and leave for the profit, the aftermath would be a completely changed way of life, kiss the quiet goodbye, say hello to traffic jams and long commute times.

If you like where you live, comfortable with your income, then fight to keep it, otherwise, you're going to see a doubling if not more of the population and uncontrolled growth, a strain on public utilities, in turn, a rate hike across the board.

There's good and bad to growth. It creates new opportunities for young people, while destroying what those before them built.
My town of Folsom Ca is a perfect example of killing the past when they welcomed Intel to the neighborhood.
The town and area grew, and I'm not kidding, Ten thousand percent in 10 years.
The ranch I worked on had been there since the beginning, even had an address of PO Box  #1 Folsom Ca, but with new growth came change, the post office gave their address to a huge donor in town, but couldn't prove it.
Fuglosi development group had their dirty prints all over this so called growth, changing building codes and getting floodplains removed for more development.

Ask Coloradans how they feel about being invaded by libs.

My day of business is long over, so growth means nothing but unimpeded traffic and pollution, they can have it.
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Offline Hoofer

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WNC, especially Henderson County and Asheville, is flourishing.

Because of a Brewery..?  Eden, NC recently had Miller close it's doors, a HUGE facility.  This sad song, "Leaving Eden" tells the tale.


What an incredible voice!   If you liked that, you'll love this Patsy Kline classic.


A bit off topic - I *wish* singers could SING today.   So few, so many fakes who can't carry a tune.
All animals are created equal; Some just take longer to cook.   Survival is keeping an eye on those around you...

Offline Hoofer

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It depends. How much do you hate your community?
If this were to happen in my area? People would sell out and leave for the profit, the aftermath would be a completely changed way of life, kiss the quiet goodbye, say hello to traffic jams and long commute times.

If you like where you live, comfortable with your income, then fight to keep it, otherwise, you're going to see a doubling if not more of the population and uncontrolled growth, a strain on public utilities, in turn, a rate hike across the board.

There's good and bad to growth. It creates new opportunities for young people, while destroying what those before them built.

My town of Folsom Ca is a perfect example of killing the past when they welcomed Intel to the neighborhood.
The town and area grew, and I'm not kidding, Ten thousand percent in 10 years.
The ranch I worked on had been there since the beginning, even had an address of PO Box  #1 Folsom Ca, but with new growth came change, the post office gave their address to a huge donor in town, but couldn't prove it.
Fuglosi development group had their dirty prints all over this so called growth, changing building codes and getting floodplains removed for more development.

Ask Coloradans how they feel about being invaded by libs.

My day of business is long over, so growth means nothing but unimpeded traffic and pollution, they can have it.

Real wisdom, based on experience there, Solar.
When I listen to these elderly folks complaining their kids and grandkids can't find a decent paying job, the good jobs are in the big cities, the mills are all closed, etc., AND in the next breath, they're steaming MAD about all the NJ & DC folks moving into the area, raising the cost of living!!!   :rolleyes: TAXES :rolleyes: BIGGER ROADS :rolleyes: Arrrgh!!!
They want to keep the whole family together, content to see them struggle (builds character, like a Mule kick to the nads.. :scared:)   

The same guys who BITCH about progress and growth - would still be working, if it were not for Social Security and Welfare and the myriad of government assistance.  Retirement is only possible, because of wealth redistribution.

I'll have to pose the question, next time I'm arguing in a diner, "If we YANK your SS, Medi-care, Stamps, and assistance - will you go back to work at the new mega-warehouse, Amazon, stacking boxes!?"

Honest to God - I really don't know if I like progress or not.
All animals are created equal; Some just take longer to cook.   Survival is keeping an eye on those around you...

Offline Solar

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Real wisdom, based on experience there, Solar.
When I listen to these elderly folks complaining their kids and grandkids can't find a decent paying job, the good jobs are in the big cities, the mills are all closed, etc., AND in the next breath, they're steaming MAD about all the NJ & DC folks moving into the area, raising the cost of living!!!   :rolleyes: TAXES :rolleyes: BIGGER ROADS :rolleyes: Arrrgh!!!
They want to keep the whole family together, content to see them struggle (builds character, like a Mule kick to the nads.. :scared:)   

The same guys who BITCH about progress and growth - would still be working, if it were not for Social Security and Welfare and the myriad of government assistance.  Retirement is only possible, because of wealth redistribution.

I'll have to pose the question, next time I'm arguing in a diner, "If we YANK your SS, Medi-care, Stamps, and assistance - will you go back to work at the new mega-warehouse, Amazon, stacking boxes!?"

Honest to God - I really don't know if I like progress or not.
As a Conservative, I love progress, but not at the cost of upheaval, be it social or economic, it makes planning for the future, for most that is, more than a simple challenge.
Every Dem social program had and has some very serious side effects, be it SSI or Medicare, someone has to pay, now or later, but it all comes at a huge cost to the next generation, something Dims feign in campaign ads, "It's For The Children", but it's those same kids, later to become adults that demand the next unborn generation pay for it.

Take Health Care, it's cost increases are directly related to Unions, or State retirement funds, another Union scam that the next generation pays for and will never experience the benefit of.
The list is endless.....
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 07:49:34 AM by Solar »
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Offline supsalemgr

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Because of a Brewery..?  Eden, NC recently had Miller close it's doors, a HUGE facility.  This sad song, "Leaving Eden" tells the tale.


What an incredible voice!   If you liked that, you'll love this Patsy Kline classic.


A bit off topic - I *wish* singers could SING today.   So few, so many fakes who can't carry a tune.

Craft breweries are having an impact on the legacy brewers.
"If you can't run with the big dawgs, stay on the porch!"

 

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