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Author Topic: the "supposed" fiscal cliff  (Read 14283 times)

Offline Vern

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You guys need a 'private' chat area for solar and supsale.
« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2013, 03:09:21 PM »
Quote from: JustKari on January 30, 2013, 09:39:21 AM
I guess, according to Vern, we need to tell Harry Reid that the fiscal cliff was a boogie man.  :rolleyes:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/50305493/ns/business-careers/#.UQlZiL_LTXc

kari, I'm not following your point.  I've never denied the fiscal cliff. In fact I'm the one who explained your question. Have you forgotten already?.  I agree, if we let automatic tax increases and spending cuts of that size, its would probably have caused a recession. So you are not responding to anything I posted. It must be something you imagined. 

kari, please make clear points.  dont be like solar. In a thread about the fiscal cliff, he's babbled about coal and me.  And when he finally posted something thread related, he denied it. 
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Offline Vern

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I post facts.
« Reply #46 on: January 30, 2013, 04:09:32 PM »
solar, I have mostly ignored you because your questions made no sense. In this question,  your 'assumption' is that President Obama is killing industry.  My 401k begs to differ.  Guess who cut my 401k value in half? (its rhetorical)

Quote from: Solar on January 27, 2013, 01:03:06 PM
Yet somehow killing industry is going to grow the economy?

this question makes no absolutely no sense because I made no such claim. I even explained to you clearly how you were not following the point.

Quote from: Solar on January 27, 2013, 01:27:02 PM
So tell me again, how he is cutting spending?

Here you  arguing a point nobody made and I’m not even sure it’s a question.

Quote from: Solar on January 27, 2013, 05:53:25 PM
You live in La La land, unless we cut spending, there is no such thing as balancing the budget.
What part of wasting nearly a trillion on a failed energy policy and killing the coal industry, do you not understand?

Well now I understand your threat. I ignored it because I’m so used to pubs lashing out angrily to people speaking the truth, I paid it no mind (its what Jesus did).   Again its not thread related and its not related to anything I posted so I ignored it.

Quote from: Solar on January 28, 2013, 08:11:08 AM
You do not direct this thread let alone forum, nor do you dictate who answers what questions.
However, I asked you a question and you completely ignored it, not wise.
So let me ask, do you think Husein is using good policy to print money, borrow money endlessly all the while running up the tab?
Or would it be better to cut back on spending and live within your means all the while paying back your creditors?
It really is a simple question, no catch, no twist of words, just a straight forward question.

Its not a straightforward question because President Obama is not borrowing money “endlessly”.  He’s reduced the deficit every year (as function of GDP) . And like all pubs you conveniently blame President Obama for FY 2009. Again its not straightforward but yes, I agree with President Obama's policy of reducing the deficit prudently while growing the economy/

 And I’ve already answered your second question.  To “live within out means”,  in 2009, that would have required a 1.2 spending cut.  That is the  budget deficit President Obama inherited. And I answered it by saying if 300 billion in tax increases and 300 billion spending cuts is a fiscal cliff, what's a 1.2 trillion dollar spending cut.  (I implied it was bad. kram understood the point)
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Offline kramarat

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Re: I post facts.
« Reply #47 on: January 30, 2013, 04:23:06 PM »
Quote from: Vern on January 30, 2013, 04:09:32 PM
solar, I have mostly ignored you because your questions made no sense. In this question,  your 'assumption' is that President Obama is killing industry.  My 401k begs to differ.  Guess who cut my 401k value in half? (its rhetorical)

this question makes no absolutely no sense because I made no such claim. I even explained to you clearly how you were not following the point.

Here you  arguing a point nobody made and I’m not even sure it’s a question.

Well now I understand your threat. I ignored it because I’m so used to pubs lashing out angrily to people speaking the truth, I paid it no mind (its what Jesus did).   Again its not thread related and its not related to anything I posted so I ignored it.

Its not a straightforward question because President Obama is not borrowing money “endlessly”.  He’s reduced the deficit every year (as function of GDP) . And like all pubs you conveniently blame President Obama for FY 2009. Again its not straightforward but yes, I agree with President Obama's policy of reducing the deficit prudently while growing the economy/

 And I’ve already answered your second question.  To “live within out means”,  in 2009, that would have required a 1.2 spending cut.  That is the  budget deficit President Obama inherited. And I answered it by saying if 300 billion in tax increases and 300 billion spending cuts is a fiscal cliff, what's a 1.2 trillion dollar spending cut.  (I implied it was bad. kram understood the point)

I'm not ready to start jumping for joy, although our 401Ks are up also.

This ties in with your bubble thread.

Banks are still getting money from the fed for almost 0 interest, but instead of loaning it out and growing the economy, they are investing it in stocks. How do you suppose that Wall St is doing so well, while the economy remains shaky at best?

Money that doesn't really exist, is going through the lending institutions, directly to Wall St, creating the impression that the economy is healing.

Does it really make sense that the economy is stagnant, and stock prices keep rising?

Bubbles anyone?
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Offline Vern

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Re: the "supposed" fiscal cliff
« Reply #48 on: January 30, 2013, 04:48:42 PM »
now kram, before you get out of the market, I have to remind you that another pub 'narrative' from 2009 was the market was going to zero.  I saw no fundemental basis justifying the drop from 8000 down to 6500 (jan 2009 to mid March).  But certain 'conservatives' were screaming the end of the world. 

"
Obama's Radicalism Is Killing the Dow
"

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123629969453946717.html

this is the perfect example of why you shouldnt get your info from editorials and especially not 'con' editorials. IN case you missed it, this 'editorial' was 6 weeks into President Obama's first term.  And it seemed to miss the 6000 point drop associated with that market crash.   As far as fundementals go, the housing glut is hitting bottom (or has already).  This recovery has had no 'housing' component. So if you assume housing will now contribute to the economy, there is no reason to assume its a bubble. 
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Offline kramarat

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Re: the "supposed" fiscal cliff
« Reply #49 on: January 30, 2013, 05:26:32 PM »
Quote from: Vern on January 30, 2013, 04:48:42 PM
now kram, before you get out of the market, I have to remind you that another pub 'narrative' from 2009 was the market was going to zero.  I saw no fundemental basis justifying the drop from 8000 down to 6500 (jan 2009 to mid March).  But certain 'conservatives' were screaming the end of the world. 

"
Obama's Radicalism Is Killing the Dow
"

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123629969453946717.html

this is the perfect example of why you shouldnt get your info from editorials and especially not 'con' editorials. IN case you missed it, this 'editorial' was 6 weeks into President Obama's first term.  And it seemed to miss the 6000 point drop associated with that market crash.   As far as fundementals go, the housing glut is hitting bottom (or has already).  This recovery has had no 'housing' component. So if you assume housing will now contribute to the economy, there is no reason to assume its a bubble.

I consider myself a conservative, but not part of a mind numbed club. I agree with libertarians a lot, and even liberals from time to time.

I try to pay attention, and I find it ironic that Obama ran for his first term, on finding and punishing corrupt bankers and Wall St people. Here we are today; not only have no arrests been made, but Obama points to Wall St as the sure sign of a recovering economy. Add to that, that free fed money is being funneled through the banks, directly into the stock market, and I must say, it looks like a bullshit con job to me.
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Offline Vern

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reflecting is always better than deflecting
« Reply #50 on: January 30, 2013, 05:49:43 PM »
Quote from: kramarat on January 30, 2013, 05:26:32 PM

I try to pay attention, and I find it ironic that Obama ran for his first term, on finding and punishing corrupt bankers and Wall St people. Here we are today; not only have no arrests been made, but Obama points to Wall St as the sure sign of a recovering economy.

sorry kram, I dont recall that.  Are you posting something you heard on the radio? like that editorial I posted,  I dont find the 'conservative entertainment complex' very factual. that editorial completely ignored the first 6000 point drop of that market crash. Were they trying to 'inform' you or scare you?

 besides, you are deflecting from the very topic you brought up: a possible stock bubble.  Instead of deflecting you should reflecting on the things you've been told vs what actually happened. 

 
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Offline Solar

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Re: I post facts.
« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2013, 07:46:50 PM »
Quote from: Vern on January 30, 2013, 04:09:32 PM
solar, I have mostly ignored you because your questions made no sense. In this question,  your 'assumption' is that President Obama is killing industry.  My 401k begs to differ.  Guess who cut my 401k value in half? (its rhetorical)

this question makes no absolutely no sense because I made no such claim. I even explained to you clearly how you were not following the point.

Here you  arguing a point nobody made and I’m not even sure it’s a question.

Well now I understand your threat. I ignored it because I’m so used to pubs lashing out angrily to people speaking the truth, I paid it no mind (its what Jesus did).   Again its not thread related and its not related to anything I posted so I ignored it.

Its not a straightforward question because President Obama is not borrowing money “endlessly”.  He’s reduced the deficit every year (as function of GDP) . And like all pubs you conveniently blame President Obama for FY 2009. Again its not straightforward but yes, I agree with President Obama's policy of reducing the deficit prudently while growing the economy/

 And I’ve already answered your second question.  To “live within out means”,  in 2009, that would have required a 1.2 spending cut.  That is the  budget deficit President Obama inherited. And I answered it by saying if 300 billion in tax increases and 300 billion spending cuts is a fiscal cliff, what's a 1.2 trillion dollar spending cut.  (I implied it was bad. kram understood the point)
Oh Jeezus what a mess!
First off he hasn't had a budget in 3 years, so how can you say he isn't wasting money, and all you have is 2009?
Does Qe3 mean anything to you, auto bailout, nearly a trillion to green energy bull shit, giving money to Chinese industry, extending unemployment, food stamps.
Absolutely none of that has been or ever will be paid back.
And you have the audacity to tell me he is balancing the budget? Maybe it works in the liberal world, but inflation is about to bite us in the ass and all you can do is say you agree with his overspending policy, a policy that is wrecking the economy.
And yes he did kill the coal industry, just like he said he would, which is driving energy prices even higher.

Are you really so biased that you can't see the damage he's doing, that is, unless you're a Fabian socialist just like him?
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Offline The Boo Man...

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Re: I post facts.
« Reply #52 on: January 30, 2013, 07:48:50 PM »
Quote from: Solar on January 30, 2013, 07:46:50 PM
Oh Jeezus what a mess!
First off he hasn't had a budget in 3 years, so how can you say he isn't wasting money, and all you have is 2009?
Does Qe3 mean anything to you, auto bailout, nearly a trillion to green energy bull shit, giving money to Chinese industry, extending unemployment, food stamps.
Absolutely none of that has been or ever will be paid back.
And you have the audacity to tell me he is balancing the budget? Maybe it works in the liberal world, but inflation is about to bite us in the ass and all you can do is say you agree with his overspending policy, a policy that is wrecking the economy.
And yes he did kill the coal industry, just like he said he would, which is driving energy prices even higher.

Are you really so biased that you can't see the damage he's doing, that is, unless you're a Fabian socialist just like him?

Oh dear. Vera's jaw has come off....
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Offline Solar

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Re: I post facts.
« Reply #53 on: January 30, 2013, 07:56:25 PM »
Quote from: The Boo Man... on January 30, 2013, 07:48:50 PM
Oh dear. Vera's jaw has come off....
Yet he claims that somehow out of all that spending, with a country in the depths of an extended depression, he is balancing the budget.
I love how he has to go back three years to make an argument, as you pointed out. :laugh:
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Offline The Boo Man...

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Re: I post facts.
« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2013, 08:00:33 PM »
Quote from: Solar on January 30, 2013, 07:56:25 PM
Yet he claims that somehow out of all that spending, with a country in the depths of an extended depression, he is balancing the budget.
I love how he has to go back three years to make an argument, as you pointed out. :laugh:

We're debating stuff we debated years ago. It's just as boring the second time around...
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Offline walkstall

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Re: I post facts.
« Reply #55 on: January 30, 2013, 08:04:18 PM »
Quote from: Solar on January 30, 2013, 07:56:25 PM
Yet he claims that somehow out of all that spending, with a country in the depths of an extended depression, he is balancing the budget.
I love how he has to go back three years to make an argument, as you pointed out. :laugh:

balancing      the         budget 
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A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

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Offline Solar

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Re: I post facts.
« Reply #56 on: January 30, 2013, 08:25:30 PM »
Quote from: The Boo Man... on January 30, 2013, 08:00:33 PM
We're debating stuff we debated years ago. It's just as boring the second time around...
I get tired of libs and the Bush blaming scenario, Bush did a shit load of liberal crap, but he wasn't trying to destroy the country, unlike our current imposter in chief.
Hell, I didn't even like Bush, but I can honestly say I hate Husein, even Carter is a distant second on stupid compared to Husein.
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Offline The Boo Man...

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Re: I post facts.
« Reply #57 on: January 30, 2013, 08:43:04 PM »
Quote from: Solar on January 30, 2013, 08:25:30 PM
I get tired of libs and the Bush blaming scenario, Bush did a shit load of liberal crap, but he wasn't trying to destroy the country, unlike our current imposter in chief.
Hell, I didn't even like Bush, but I can honestly say I hate Husein, even Carter is a distant second on stupid compared to Husein.

I can't figure this cat out. Is she 12? Dumb? or lazy....
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Offline Solar

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Re: I post facts.
« Reply #58 on: January 30, 2013, 08:51:43 PM »
Quote from: The Boo Man... on January 30, 2013, 08:43:04 PM
I can't figure this cat out. Is she 12? Dumb? or lazy....
Utopian Socialist... So yeah, a preteen girl.
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Offline Vern

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Re: I post facts.
« Reply #59 on: January 31, 2013, 03:28:31 AM »
Quote from: Solar on January 30, 2013, 07:56:25 PM
with a country in the depths of an extended depression, he is balancing the budget.

and thats just it solar, I never said that.  Please cut and paste where I said President Obama is balancing the budget.  Dont just repeat your claim. You got all bent out of shape over something you imagined or misinterpreted.   You'd be suprised how much that happens to me.  People cant argue what I post. 
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