Conservative Political Forum

General Category => Financial => Topic started by: Solar on January 16, 2019, 05:42:00 PM

Title: NYC restaurants cutting staff hours as minimum wage hits $15
Post by: Solar on January 16, 2019, 05:42:00 PM
Stupid libs, they just don't grasp economics. :lol:

The legal minimum wage for New York City employers with 11 or more workers rose more than 15 percent on Dec. 31, 2018, to $15 per hour from $13, giving fast-food, retail and other employees a bump in pay. But some New York City restaurant owners say the latest minimum wage hike is forcing them to cut workers' hours just to stay afloat.

It's the third rise in the city's base wage since Dec. 31, 2016, when it went to $11 an hour. The latest increase is part of a plan that phases in minimum wage hikes across New York state, with amounts and effective dates varying by region and industry. It's not just a New York phenomenon, however: Minimum wages rose in 20 states with the new year, forcing businesses across the country to grapple with higher payrolls -- and compete for workers with giants like Amazon that are already offering $15 an hour.

Jon Bloostein operates six New York City restaurants that employ between 50 and 110 people each. The owner of Heartland Brewery and Houston Hall, Bloostein said the effect of the higher minimum wage on payroll across locations represents "an immense cost" to his business.

"We lost control of our largest controllable expense," he told CBS MoneyWatch. "So in order to live with that and stay in business, we're cutting hours."

Bloostein said he has scaled back on employee hours and no longer uses hosts and hostesses during lunch on light traffic days. Customers instead are greeted with a sign that reads, "Kindly select a table." He also staggers employees' start times. "These fewer hours add up to a lot of money in restaurants," he said.

Bloostein said he has increased menu prices, too. "So as a result [of the minimum wage hike], it will cost more to dine out," he said. "It's not great for labor, it's not great for the people who invest in or own restaurants, and it's not great for the public."


A New York City Hospitality Alliance survey of 574 restaurants showed that 75 percent of full-service restaurants reported plans to reduce employee hours this year in response to the latest mandated wage increase. Another 47 percent said they would eliminate jobs in 2019. Eighty-seven percent of respondents also said they would increase menu prices this year.

These types of cost-cutting moves coincide with a U.S. Labor Department report released last Friday showing full-service restaurants in December raised prices the most since 2011, to cover soaring labor and food costs.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nyc-restaurants-cut-staff-hours-to-cope-with-minimum-wage-hike-hitting-15/
Title: Re: NYC restaurants cutting staff hours as minimum wage hits $15
Post by: walkstall on January 16, 2019, 06:01:21 PM
Why do I see unions coming next for all restaurants. 
Title: Re: NYC restaurants cutting staff hours as minimum wage hits $15
Post by: Solar on January 16, 2019, 06:13:39 PM
Why do I see unions coming next for all restaurants.
Bingo! It's how the left works. Create a problem, then demand the same perpetrators be charged with fixing it.
Example: Out here in Ca the teachers went on strike, the Union claimed they need more bilingual teachers and classrooms are over crowded, problem is, they're over crowded because of Democrats,, for two reasons, letting in illegals, and they have fought against charter and home schooling.

See how that work? :sneaky:
Title: Re: NYC restaurants cutting staff hours as minimum wage hits $15
Post by: s3779m on January 17, 2019, 01:23:06 AM
Bingo! It's how the left works. Create a problem, then demand the same perpetrators be charged with fixing it.
Example: Out here in Ca the teachers went on strike, the Union claimed they need more bilingual teachers and classrooms are over crowded, problem is, they're over crowded because of Democrats,, for two reasons, letting in illegals, and they have fought against charter and home schooling.

See how that work? :sneaky:
I guess the meaning of that statement has come full circle, they need teachers who speak English also?
Title: Re: NYC restaurants cutting staff hours as minimum wage hits $15
Post by: Brickman on January 27, 2019, 10:16:23 PM
As a business owner.

Here is a conversation I had on this topic I've cut and pasted here.  Enjoy....

The following scenario was set up for me....

Rob has a coffee shop. Every day, he gets many customers flowing into his shop. Because there are so many customers, he decided to hire 2 employees, a cashier, and a barista.

He pays them $10 dollars an hour, and they work for 10 hours a day.

So in total, he pays them $200 a day.

Now minimum wage is $15 dollars an hour, so he will pay them $300 a day.

That’s not good for Rob. He then lays off one employee and now has one. He pays him $150 a day as per minimum wage, but he does double the work. He is doing $200 dollar work for $150.


And my reply:


If Rob needs all of his Barista’s to meet the demand for his coffee, then laying one of them off is the LAST thing he will do as it will, by necessity reduce his ability to meet the demand for his product. Thus, Rob will need to find other ways of absorbing the new higher price.

[Insert: It’s important to remember that any drastic change in wages won’t take place all at once, rather it will be phased in. I don’t go into that here for simplicities sake, but it’s important to remember that the real problem of raising wages is the disruption caused by the change in the price of wages that businesses generally are unable to forecast. In other words, if minimum wages scaled to inflation, then businesses would, as part of their future operating expenses take into account the rising cost of wages just as they take into account the rising cost of other inputs.]

The first question is, what is Rob's current level of profitability? Will paying employees $100 more per day reduce his profits to a level that is unacceptable?

Let’s consider the things that Rob can do…..

Rob will look for ways in his businesses to cut costs in other places. Maybe he could re-negotiate his lease or move his shop? Maybe he could negotiate with the suppliers of coffee beans or find another supplier. Maybe he could talk to his insurance company and negotiate better rates or find another company. Maybe he could implement new processes to make it possible to serve more customers over time or maybe he could look at how he currently advertises and consider alternatives to reach more potential customers

OR

Let’s say rob sells 500 cups of coffee a day (I got this number by taking the total number of cups of coffee Starbucks sells per-day and dividing by the number of restaurants). Let’s say each cup is $3 (kind of low compared to Starbucks, but Rob needs that to attract customers), that means that he earns $1500 in gross profit per-day. Rob could raise the price of each cup by 0.20 cents to $3.20 (a ~6.5% increase) and make the $100 he needs to pay the increased wage,

OR

Rob could raise the price by 0.10 and find the other 0.10 cents in other cost-cutting measures (examples given above).

OR

Rob can raise the price by 0.07 cents, Cut costs by 0.07 cents and take a reduction in profits of 0.07 cents

OR

Any combination of the above, but I’m just scratching the surface. There are even more ways to cut costs.

This can ALL be done BEFORE Rob has to consider layoffs.

There are lots of things Rob can do, but firing an employee is the best way to reduce profits.

If Rob can fire an employee without affecting his profits, then he was already operating inefficiently by paying more employees than he needed.

But what if, Rob finds that after implementing these measures, the increases in wages across the nation have resulted in more people buying coffee from Rob?

What if Rob finds as the months of higher wages go on that he now sells 600 cups per day? What if he can achieve this new number with existing equipment and labor? That’s all profit!

Let’s say he found ways to lower his costs through negotiation but had to give up 0.05 cents of profitability, raised his price by 0.09 cents and found 0.06 cents (all per cup) in cost-cutting measures.

Now let’s say he sells an extra 50 cups of coffee on average. The extra 50 cups earn him $154 in profits (0.26 cents per cup). Maybe the increase in demand for coffee allows Rob to buy larger quantities of coffee and this results in a lower price (economies of scale) reducing his cost per cup and increasing his profitability.

He can keep the profit, or he can lower his costs by being more efficient, maybe he can use the money to expand and hire new workers, maybe he can use the money for additional training or maybe he can share some of that profitability and offer higher wages to the best employees and differentiate his business (think Chik-fil-A compared to McD’s)…Whatever…..Z

The point is, the idea that increases in wages automatically mean a reduction in employment is an overly simplistic way to look at the problem.

Imagine for a second that the cost of electricity rose by 50%, would a business cut electricity use as a result?  No, not if it needed electricity to run the business.  There are hundreds even thousands of ways that businesses can reduce their costs.  Whatever a business decides will, in the aggregate result in lower demand across lots of different areas.  Perhaps a restaurant will reduce its preventive maintenance, or cancel optional types of insurance...The list of possibilities is endless, the point being that as the market finds a new level of equilibrium there will be a disruption.

Just something to think about.



Title: Re: NYC restaurants cutting staff hours as minimum wage hits $15
Post by: walkstall on January 28, 2019, 02:02:21 AM
Quote
Rob will need to find other ways of absorbing the new higher price

If Rob is not doing all of the thing above for saving money before the minimum wage is $15 dollars an hour.  Then Rob is a poor business owner. 

$10 dollars an hour is entry level work.  Why should Rob pay more.  If you need more money then mover on or go back for more schooling. 

I myself make my own coffee at home if I would like more I would take a coffee thermos like I did for over 70+ years.  Yes I am a cheap SOB.  But then I started working for 35¢ per hr. in my day.  Why would someone in their right mind pay over 50¢ for coffee. 
Title: Re: NYC restaurants cutting staff hours as minimum wage hits $15
Post by: Brickman on January 28, 2019, 06:00:19 AM
Because as business owners we don't review the conditions of our business every single day.  Generally, we are tied up in the day to day operations of running our businesses.  If there is a sudden change that forces us to evaluate our costs, sometimes we can be made aware of things we didn't know about because we lack the time or motivation to look for them.

I assume you own a home.  Do you shop daily for better rates on insurance?  Do you calculate potential profit/ loss of replacing energy using appliances?

If time is money than spending it trying to save money comes with a cost.  If you spend it and don't find a way to save money then you've lost it.

As far as $10 an hour being entry-level work. 

As a business owner, ideally paying my workers as little as possible would be great for me on the cost side, but since the money of my customers is people who earn the minimum wage, paying them less causes them to look for alternatives and my profits decline.

Thus I realize that the same people I and other businesses pay to work end up on both the cost and profit sides.  If you cut their income, they will reduce their spending.
Title: Re: NYC restaurants cutting staff hours as minimum wage hits $15
Post by: Solar on January 28, 2019, 06:57:42 AM
Because as business owners we don't review the conditions of our business every single day.  Generally, we are tied up in the day to day operations of running our businesses.  If there is a sudden change that forces us to evaluate our costs, sometimes we can be made aware of things we didn't know about because we lack the time or motivation to look for them.
I assume you own a home.  Do you shop daily for better rates on insurance?  Do you calculate potential profit/ loss of replacing energy using appliances?

If time is money than spending it trying to save money comes with a cost.  If you spend it and don't find a way to save money then you've lost it.
Wrong!!!
As a retired CEO and life long business owner, you are constantly reevaluating your business every second of your waking day, even in your sleep.
If you're not, you have no business in business!
Or, let me guess, you inherited it and are coasting along on the labors of your fathers, father?
Orr, you were wealthy and bought a functioning business, and if you did, I'd love to know who your competitor is, I'd buy them out, because you are easy pickings for expansion, you'll never see it coming.

Quote
As far as $10 an hour being entry-level work. 

As a business owner, ideally paying my workers as little as possible would be great for me on the cost side, but since the money of my customers is people who earn the minimum wage, paying them less causes them to look for alternatives and my profits decline.


What you fail to grasp is every business is hit with this same penalty, meaning your suppliers won't be able to adjust costs to accommodate you, they too will have to find ways to make up for the loss and in most cases, pass it along to the end buyer, YOU!
As a former business, you pay your employees according to their worth. A minimum wage only forces an employer to have a minimum level of pay, but when the govt keeps pushing this level beyond the feasibility for business to absorb slowly, then you have market disruption, lay offs, price increases for the end consumer, including fuel, which translates into cost increases across the board.

Quote
Thus I realize that the same people I and other businesses pay to work end up on both the cost and profit sides.  If you cut their income, they will reduce their spending.

Therein lies the issue with govt interfering with private industry.
You may raise their pay, but everything they buy with that increase will cost more, a small percentage more than their pay raise, because business has to deal with the bureaucracy that just grew again as did accounting to the overbearing reach of big govt.

Sadly,, this kills business that provides entry level employment, you need these positions for young people to enter the mkt, learn a skill, learn what is expected of them as employees and it goes on and on.
Raising min wage kills these business's bottom line, and the ones that were already struggling, will have to close their doors, and those that can afford to weather it, will begin looking for ways to cut more costs.
Look to the fast food industry, an industry dependent upon entry level employees. Guess what they're doing? Replacing everyone with robotics.

So not only did the MW eliminate a percentage of businesses, they also eliminated countless entry level jobs, increased costs for every consumer,, and what or who do you think prospered in the end?
That's Right, govt, they just increased their bottom line on the backs of the entire nation..

But it doesn't end there. What about entry level jobs, the ones disappearing, what do you do to get these kids ready to enter the flow of life?
Why would anyone want to even try and start a new business in this climate, where most of the cost is buried in labor?
Business is usually structured on a 3, 5, 7 year plan, MW increases completely screw up these heavily charted plans, keep forcing industry to reevaluate, and eventually the only ones left able to exist, are the very corporations that keep the Marxists in power.

Please, don't tell me you expect govt to fix the very mess it created?
Title: Re: NYC restaurants cutting staff hours as minimum wage hits $15
Post by: walkstall on January 28, 2019, 10:01:14 AM
If people think entry level jobs people should get more money then they should tip them more money.

I tip for the job their doing for me.  I also tip in cash as I am tipping them for the outstanding work, not the government. What they do with that tip is up to them.

I also tip at Christmas time and their Birthday if I know it.
Title: Re: NYC restaurants cutting staff hours as minimum wage hits $15
Post by: Brickman on February 07, 2019, 08:09:13 AM
Wrong!!!
As a retired CEO and life long business owner, you are constantly reevaluating your business every second of your waking day, even in your sleep.
If you're not, you have no business in business!

I've worked for some of the largest corporations in the US and the world and I can tell you there isn't enough time in the day for the owner of a company to evaluate cost potential on a daily basis.  If you're doing this you don't pay enough attention to other areas of your business.  Advertising, technology evaluation, where you are in the marketplace.  Sure, we think about costs all the time, but true evaluation takes time and there is an opportunity cost for that time spent.

Can I make more money attending a meeting on R&D, security, payroll and benefits issues or lowing my costs (or maybe a few of each)?

Or, let me guess, you inherited it and are coasting along on the labors of your fathers, father?

What I do didn't exist when my father ran his business (he was in construction).  I'm in IT.


Orr, you were wealthy and bought a functioning business, and if you did, I'd love to know who your competitor is, I'd buy them out, because you are easy pickings for expansion, you'll never see it coming.

Nope, I went into business with a few co-workers as we left a multi national to start our own business.

What you fail to grasp is every business is hit with this same penalty, meaning your suppliers won't be able to adjust costs to accommodate you, they too will have to find ways to make up for the loss and in most cases, pass it along to the end buyer, YOU!

I don't know about the business you're in, but in my business, there are multiple suppliers each with their own goals and opportunities to offer better prices depending on market conditions, but better costs require that you actively look as technology changes.  Sure, sometimes you'll get a cold call and learn about something you didn't know, but I get so many cold calls 99% of which aren't useful I tend to ignore them as I just don't have the time.

As a former business, you pay your employees according to their worth. A minimum wage only forces an employer to have a minimum level of pay, but when the govt keeps pushing this level beyond the feasibility for business to absorb slowly, then you have market disruption, layoffs, price increases for the end consumer, including fuel, which translates into cost increases across the board.

Sure it's in my best interest to pay as little as I can for the best people I can get, but looking at the economy more broadly, my customer's customers need money to buy their products and in turn, buy mine.  When people have less money there are less potential customers for everyone.  So saying that people are worth what they can get ignore the leverage owners have over workers.  Now in fairness, I don't have any minimum wage employees.  My lowest paid employees (delivery people) are far beyond minimum wages.

Therein lies the issue with govt interfering with private industry.
You may raise their pay, but everything they buy with that increase will cost more, a small percentage more than their pay raise, because business has to deal with the bureaucracy that just grew again as did accounting to the overbearing reach of big govt.

Increases in pay result in increases in spending.  Increases in spending increase my income.

Sadly,, this kills business that provides entry level employment, you need these positions for young people to enter the mkt, learn a skill, learn what is expected of them as employees and it goes on and on.

I think you address this problem below.

Raising min wage kills these business's bottom line, and the ones that were already struggling, will have to close their doors, and those that can afford to weather it, will begin looking for ways to cut more costs.

If it kills them, have you ever considered that maybe they were too weak and inefficient to be in business in the first place?  Being a business owner doesn't elevate you to some high level of consideration.  You act as if as business owners (or former I don't know if you are still in business) are ordained with some special consideration.  Market prices change all the time and it's our job as business owners to change and adapt.  What's that, memory prices just doubled?  How do we deal with that?  Pass the prices on to our customers?  Sounds like a great idea, but one of my competitors either had some insight I didn't or just got lucky and has a huge inventory of memory at the old price.  If I raise my cost my customers will go to my competition?  Now what?

I need to look for other places to cut costs, differentiate etc....

Look to the fast food industry, an industry dependent upon entry-level employees. Guess what they're doing? Replacing everyone with robotics.

Sure, they are becoming more efficient.  SHould we all be riding horses so buggy whip makers can stay in business?  No, times change and business adapts or it goes out of business.

So not only did the MW eliminate a percentage of businesses, they also eliminated countless entry-level jobs, increased costs for every consumer,, and what or who do you think prospered in the end?
That's Right, govt, they just increased their bottom line on the backs of the entire nation..

Where do you think this is all going?  In 20 years 40% of the jobs done today will be automated and as an economy, we better figure it out or as a nation, we're going to fail.

But it doesn't end there. What about entry level jobs, the ones disappearing, what do you do to get these kids ready to enter the flow of life?

Sure and what do you suggest, that they accept $7.50 an hour and bury themselves in $100k debt to get an education?

Why would anyone want to even try and start a new business in this climate, where most of the cost is buried in labor?

I rub elbows with people like you all the time.  That thing that they are special because they own or operate a business.  That the parents should all be grateful that you bother to get out of bed each day and provide them with a job.  I see the world differently.  I'm grateful that there are so many that are willing to work for me and that they make me wealthy as I earn money from each of their efforts. 

Are some of the burdens placed on me difficult and sometimes seem unfair?  Of course, but I grew up poor and I know that my "problems" aren't any worse than someone working a day job taking night classes to make themselves better.  I respect that.

Business is usually structured on a 3, 5, 7 year plan, MW increases completely screw up these heavily charted plans, keep forcing industry to reevaluate, and eventually the only ones left able to exist, are the very corporations that keep the Marxists in power.

LOL, such a bazzar sense of entielment.

Don't cost change in your business unexpectedly?  Do you complain to your suppliers that they are screwing up you 3, 5, and 7-year plans?

Labor is a cost and if it rises I do what I do when any of my other costs rise, I'll evaluate and make changes where I can. If I can't maybe I didn't operate my business as efficiently as I could have.  Perhaps my model and forecasts were wrong, perhaps I was a bad businessman?

The reality is if you go out of business, but your competitors don't, then it was you that was the problem, because otherwise, everyone in your bussiness would have failed.

Please, don't tell me you expect govt to fix the very mess it created?

Be more specific.
Title: Re: NYC restaurants cutting staff hours as minimum wage hits $15
Post by: Solar on February 07, 2019, 09:01:21 AM
I've worked for some of the largest corporations in the US and the world and I can tell you there isn't enough time in the day for the owner of a company to evaluate cost potential on a daily basis.  If you're doing this you don't pay enough attention to other areas of your business.  Advertising, technology evaluation, where you are in the marketplace.  Sure, we think about costs all the time, but true evaluation takes time and there is an opportunity cost for that time spent.

Can I make more money attending a meeting on R&D, security, payroll and benefits issues or lowing my costs (or maybe a few of each)?

What I do didn't exist when my father ran his business (he was in construction).  I'm in IT.


Nope, I went into business with a few co-workers as we left a multi national to start our own business.

I don't know about the business you're in, but in my business, there are multiple suppliers each with their own goals and opportunities to offer better prices depending on market conditions, but better costs require that you actively look as technology changes.  Sure, sometimes you'll get a cold call and learn about something you didn't know, but I get so many cold calls 99% of which aren't useful I tend to ignore them as I just don't have the time.

Sure it's in my best interest to pay as little as I can for the best people I can get, but looking at the economy more broadly, my customer's customers need money to buy their products and in turn, buy mine.  When people have less money there are less potential customers for everyone.  So saying that people are worth what they can get ignore the leverage owners have over workers.  Now in fairness, I don't have any minimum wage employees.  My lowest paid employees (delivery people) are far beyond minimum wages.

Increases in pay result in increases in spending.  Increases in spending increase my income.

I think you address this problem below.

If it kills them, have you ever considered that maybe they were too weak and inefficient to be in business in the first place?  Being a business owner doesn't elevate you to some high level of consideration.  You act as if as business owners (or former I don't know if you are still in business) are ordained with some special consideration.  Market prices change all the time and it's our job as business owners to change and adapt.  What's that, memory prices just doubled?  How do we deal with that?  Pass the prices on to our customers?  Sounds like a great idea, but one of my competitors either had some insight I didn't or just got lucky and has a huge inventory of memory at the old price.  If I raise my cost my customers will go to my competition?  Now what?

I need to look for other places to cut costs, differentiate etc....

Sure, they are becoming more efficient.  SHould we all be riding horses so buggy whip makers can stay in business?  No, times change and business adapts or it goes out of business.

Where do you think this is all going?  In 20 years 40% of the jobs done today will be automated and as an economy, we better figure it out or as a nation, we're going to fail.

Sure and what do you suggest, that they accept $7.50 an hour and bury themselves in $100k debt to get an education?

I rub elbows with people like you all the time.  That thing that they are special because they own or operate a business.  That the parents should all be grateful that you bother to get out of bed each day and provide them with a job.  I see the world differently.  I'm grateful that there are so many that are willing to work for me and that they make me wealthy as I earn money from each of their efforts. 

Are some of the burdens placed on me difficult and sometimes seem unfair?  Of course, but I grew up poor and I know that my "problems" aren't any worse than someone working a day job taking night classes to make themselves better.  I respect that.

LOL, such a bazzar sense of entielment.

Don't cost change in your business unexpectedly?  Do you complain to your suppliers that they are screwing up you 3, 5, and 7-year plans?

Labor is a cost and if it rises I do what I do when any of my other costs rise, I'll evaluate and make changes where I can. If I can't maybe I didn't operate my business as efficiently as I could have.  Perhaps my model and forecasts were wrong, perhaps I was a bad businessman?

The reality is if you go out of business, but your competitors don't, then it was you that was the problem, because otherwise, everyone in your bussiness would have failed.

Be more specific.
Wow, talk about a disconnect from reality and your myopic view of business. I know of few "Corporate entities" that can't absorb a wage increase, with few exceptions.
But that's not the world we're talking about, this solely effects small business, where profit margins are slim and competition is fierce, and they don't have lobbyists greasing the palms of Congress to write laws in their favor.
No, this is about people that create the majority of entry level positions in the country. Kill them off and what do you suppose happens to the economy, and who do you suppose the left will blame?

This BS crosses party lines, where RINO are only interested in lining the pockets of their backers at the expense of the working class.

What you fail to grasp is, many businesses are unique to their geographic areas, from small town food mkts to dance studios, craft stores Etc. These are all anchors in small towns all across America, raise their CODB and they collapse as does their local economies.
Are these weak businesses, family owned for generations, and suddenly the govt kills their bottom-line?
You tell me, do we just let them die at the greed of the left and its desire to control the mkts, or do we let the mkt set the CODB?
Title: Re: NYC restaurants cutting staff hours as minimum wage hits $15
Post by: Brickman on February 08, 2019, 05:41:40 AM
Wow, talk about a disconnect from reality and your myopic view of business. I know of few "Corporate entities" that can't absorb a wage increase, with few exceptions.
But that's not the world we're talking about, this solely effects small business, where profit margins are slim and competition is fierce, and they don't have lobbyists greasing the palms of Congress to write laws in their favor.
No, this is about people that create the majority of entry level positions in the country. Kill them off and what do you suppose happens to the economy, and who do you suppose the left will blame?

This BS crosses party lines, where RINO are only interested in lining the pockets of their backers at the expense of the working class.

What you fail to grasp is, many businesses are unique to their geographic areas, from small town food mkts to dance studios, craft stores Etc. These are all anchors in small towns all across America, raise their CODB and they collapse as does their local economies.
Are these weak businesses, family owned for generations, and suddenly the govt kills their bottom-line?
You tell me, do we just let them die at the greed of the left and its desire to control the mkts, or do we let the mkt set the CODB?

And if those little businesses you talk about go out of business, you're telling me that no one else will be able to provide the services they provide at a profit?  My mother-in-law, love her, but she's a terrible business person.  She opened a restaurant ran it for 10 years and turns out she went out of business because she had no solid grasp on her costs.  She wasn't utilizing P&L statements to set her prices and in the end, the restaurant she mismanaged went under.  That's her fault, course she blames everyone but herself (shhhhhh, don't tell her I told you that).

Having said that, I can agree that there are some onerous regs that very small businesses have to deal with, but paying people enough to survive isn't one of them.

You know, J.K. Galbraith said....."We're supposed to believe that the rich won't work because they don't make enough money and the poor won't work because they make too much".




Title: Re: NYC restaurants cutting staff hours as minimum wage hits $15
Post by: Solar on February 08, 2019, 07:28:58 AM
And if those little businesses you talk about go out of business, you're telling me that no one else will be able to provide the services they provide at a profit?  My mother-in-law, love her, but she's a terrible business person.  She opened a restaurant ran it for 10 years and turns out she went out of business because she had no solid grasp on her costs.  She wasn't utilizing P&L statements to set her prices and in the end, the restaurant she mismanaged went under.  That's her fault, course she blames everyone but herself (shhhhhh, don't tell her I told you that).

Having said that, I can agree that there are some onerous regs that very small businesses have to deal with, but paying people enough to survive isn't one of them.

You know, J.K. Galbraith said....."We're supposed to believe that the rich won't work because they don't make enough money and the poor won't work because they make too much".
It's obvious you have little, if any historical reference when it comes to govt interference where small business is concerned.
I've been around long enough to have witnessed this phenomena, be it electricity or gas to gasoline, the govt has built monopolies via local PUC entities, where the left used EPA regs to kill off small producers in favor of those wanting to merge the little players into one big monopoly.
This is a reflection of virtually every corporate entity in world, where they lobby Congress for regulations favoring one entity over another.

It has always been this way, but the entire shift took a huge leap forward under Clinton, when he proudly announced corporate America was now backing the Dim party.
This panicked the GOP Establishment, so much so, they were forced to concede to the left more than ever, which surged the nation leftward. This angered the base, which brought about the TEA movement, and later, giving us Trump.
Point is, people are sick and tired of an overbearing Federal Govt, one that no longer supported the Rights of the individual, rather, the interests of a Global Govt.

This is reflected in the nonsense of a Min Wage, where the free mkt had lost the power to dictate price.
E.G. In the 60s an NG monthly bill was around $3.00, while electricity hovered around $5.00, the basic wage was around a buck an hour, the average skilled labor wage ranged $5.00 and up to as much as $10.0 or more and a new home cost averaged $14 grand.
Back then there was no restrictions on usages of energy, the mkt bare the price accordingly and times were good. Fast forward to 40 odd years, where the left began its game of monopolized control over energy production while using the EPA restrictions put pressure on local energy producers, in forcing them to create 10% so called "Green Energy", and since most couldn't afford to do this, many were absorbed by even larger producers, groups that earlier lobbied the Dim party for regulation control.
I'm getting to my point, bare with me.
Then the EPA started targeting water usage. Why you ask? Because it is all about control, but this is only one step in the plan, another is the cost of water, because of the increase in energy prices, the cost to pump and filter water has gone through the roof, yet the EPA played this vague game of claiming fresh water was endangered by using examples of droughts around the world due to their claim of global warming.
So now they have kids believing that something as simple as water is on the verge of disappearing so they have to conserve.

Now we hear the govt telling us we need to conserve energy, the govt invested heavily in solar, (Think Obozo's failed Solyndra) one of the biggest exposed scams of crony corporatism of his administration.
All the while he is killing off coal, stifling nuclear and pushing the lie of green energy.
The next step in the Marxist progression here, was to hire protesters to place demands for an increased Min Wage via Union backed Marxists.
Are you starting to see a pattern yet? All of this is based on the lie of global warming. Even Obozo admitted that under his plan, that "Energy prices would necessarily skyrocket", as was the plan, kill off America's ability of cheap production, in turn bring the US to its knees and forcing it to join the global community.

In all this time, small business suffers as energy costs soar... Seeing the big pic yet? People start falling for the lie of a min wage increase, an increase that will hit the poorest among us because prices increase and the min wage worker is still stuck paying the same as before.
Your claim that min wage is a living wage is ludicrous, it is an entry level wage, that's it, a starting point where they slowly move into a higher paying job as they develop skills accordingly.
Anecdotal ?: I owned a health club chain when the min wage was $4.00? an hour, the govt did an increase to $4.25. I was in the midst of giving all my best employees a 25 cent increase when the theft was imposed upon my business, what transpired was real world economics, I still gave my quality employees the deserved raise, but I was forced to layoff several people, in order to keep my best employees.

Did this MW increase help these people, no, it forced several onto the unemployment roles. There is another factor in play, an unseen slap to morale because now with a reduced staff, my employees are forced to take up the slack, work more shifts, as well as reducing the hours the business is open which effects my customer base.
No, it did not kill my business, but it did reduce my membership by about 3%, that was a loss of pure profit that could never be made up without damaging the business model.

You claim that someone will take the place when a small business closes is generally true, by a faceless corporate entity most likely.
And that's part of the Marxist plan of killing off entrepreneurship, the American dream.

Data from the U.S. Small Business Administration shows that of the 5.73 million businesses in the United States, more than 98 percent, 5.635 million, have fewer than 100 employees. That's compared with just over 99,000 businesses that have more than 100 employees.

"The small-business sector is vital to the U.S. economy because it creates two-thirds of new jobs and produces half of GDP," said Cynthia Magnuson, a spokesperson for the National Federation of Independent Business. "Typically, the small-business sector leads the nation out of recession and into recovery."

(https://img.business.com/o/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYnVzaW5lc3NuZXdzZGFpbHkuY29tL2ltYWdlcy9pLzAwMC8wMDQvNTkzL2kwMi9TQkEtbnVtYmVycy0xMDA0MTNELmpwZWc/MTM4MTgwNzQ1Ng==)

https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/5280-majority-small-businesses-infographic.html
Title: After Winning a $15 Minimum Wage, Fast Food Workers Now Battle Unfair Firings
Post by: Solar on February 16, 2019, 01:45:01 PM
Now, tell me, who didn't see this coming?  :lol: :lol: :lol:

After Winning a $15 Minimum Wage, Fast Food Workers Now Battle Unfair Firings

New York City’s fast-food industry has served as a laboratory for the nation’s labor movement for the last several years.

Its workers were the first to stage rallies demanding a minimum wage of $15 an hour. Then, they pressed for changes in the way national restaurant chains set their work schedules.

Now, they are asking the City Council to shield them from being fired without a valid reason. That protection, the sort of job security that unions usually bargain for, would be a first for a city to provide to workers in a specific industry, labor law experts said.

City Councilman Brad Lander said he planned to introduce a bill on Wednesday that would require fast-food businesses to show “just cause” for firing workers and give them a chance to appeal dismissals through arbitration.

Mr. Lander, a Democrat from Brooklyn, said he was responding to surveys of fast-food workers indicating that “there’s a substantial percentage of employees that have been fired unfairly.” One woman said she was fired from a Chipotle restaurant for not smiling enough.

But restaurant industry officials and lawyers who represent the industry said the proposal was just the latest stratagem employed by a national union that has been trying to organize fast-food workers ever since they first staged protests for better wages and working conditions in 2012.

The Service Employees International Union adopted the workers’ Fight for 15 campaign, which spurred New York and other cities and states to raise minimum wages to $15 an hour and in some places higher.

“We’re always skeptical about any efforts by the S.E.I.U., that they’re really anything more than a front to help them increase their dues-paying membership and their political agenda,” said Matthew Haller, an executive with the International Franchise Association in Washington.

Two years ago, the union’s powerful local in New York, 32BJ SEIU, successfully pressed the council to impose rules for the setting of work schedules at the city’s fast-food restaurants and retail stores. The rules came in response to complaints from workers about being given too little notice about when they would be needed or not needed, making it difficult for them to plan their lives.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/12/nyregion/fast-food-worker-firings.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytmetro
Title: Re: After Winning a $15 Minimum Wage, Fast Food Workers Now Battle Unfair Firings
Post by: walkstall on February 16, 2019, 02:04:56 PM
Now, tell me, who didn't see this coming?  :lol: :lol: :lol:

After Winning a $15 Minimum Wage, Fast Food Workers Now Battle Unfair Firings

New York City’s fast-food industry has served as a laboratory for the nation’s labor movement for the last several years.

Its workers were the first to stage rallies demanding a minimum wage of $15 an hour. Then, they pressed for changes in the way national restaurant chains set their work schedules.

Now, they are asking the City Council to shield them from being fired without a valid reason. That protection, the sort of job security that unions usually bargain for, would be a first for a city to provide to workers in a specific industry, labor law experts said.

City Councilman Brad Lander said he planned to introduce a bill on Wednesday that would require fast-food businesses to show “just cause” for firing workers and give them a chance to appeal dismissals through arbitration.

Mr. Lander, a Democrat from Brooklyn, said he was responding to surveys of fast-food workers indicating that “there’s a substantial percentage of employees that have been fired unfairly.” One woman said she was fired from a Chipotle restaurant for not smiling enough.

But restaurant industry officials and lawyers who represent the industry said the proposal was just the latest stratagem employed by a national union that has been trying to organize fast-food workers ever since they first staged protests for better wages and working conditions in 2012.

The Service Employees International Union adopted the workers’ Fight for 15 campaign, which spurred New York and other cities and states to raise minimum wages to $15 an hour and in some places higher.

“We’re always skeptical about any efforts by the S.E.I.U., that they’re really anything more than a front to help them increase their dues-paying membership and their political agenda,” said Matthew Haller, an executive with the International Franchise Association in Washington.

Two years ago, the union’s powerful local in New York, 32BJ SEIU, successfully pressed the council to impose rules for the setting of work schedules at the city’s fast-food restaurants and retail stores. The rules came in response to complaints from workers about being given too little notice about when they would be needed or not needed, making it difficult for them to plan their lives.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/12/nyregion/fast-food-worker-firings.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytmetro

When will NY guarantee how much money the restaurants and retail stores will make each month?   :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: After Winning a $15 Minimum Wage, Fast Food Workers Now Battle Unfair Firings
Post by: Solar on February 16, 2019, 02:09:32 PM
When will NY guarantee how much money the restaurants and retail stores will make each month?   :lol: :lol:
OOOOOHHHH!!! Good call!
Title: Re: After Winning a $15 Minimum Wage, Fast Food Workers Now Battle Unfair Firings
Post by: s3779m on February 16, 2019, 02:46:53 PM
When will NY guarantee how much money the restaurants and retail stores will make each month?   :lol: :lol:
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Perfect!
Title: Re: After Winning a $15 Minimum Wage, Fast Food Workers Now Battle Unfair Firings
Post by: supsalemgr on February 17, 2019, 04:32:24 AM
When will NY guarantee how much money the restaurants and retail stores will make each month?   :lol: :lol:

That is part of the equation that unions and the left never address. These individual businesses cannot print money like the US government. It is pretty simple. When the outgo exceeds the income - the doors close and nobody has a job.
Title: Re: After Winning a $15 Minimum Wage, Fast Food Workers Now Battle Unfair Firings
Post by: walkstall on February 17, 2019, 06:50:27 AM
That is part of the equation that unions and the left never address. These individual businesses cannot print money like the US government. It is pretty simple. When the outgo exceeds the income - the doors close and nobody has a job.


You know that and I know that but the government don't know that.  The government just adds more taxes or prints more money.
Title: Re: After Winning a $15 Minimum Wage, Fast Food Workers Now Battle Unfair Firings
Post by: Solar on February 17, 2019, 07:06:17 AM
That is part of the equation that unions and the left never address. These individual businesses cannot print money like the US government. It is pretty simple. When the outgo exceeds the income - the doors close and nobody has a job.
Decades ago I was complaining about the monopoly the govt had created here in Ca, where the State PUC (Public Utility Commission) had literally guaranteed that a local utility would be guaranteed a minimal profit of no less than 32%.
They did this so the utilities would always go along with any decisions effecting them. Long story short, when Obozo instituted his "Green Energy" Bullshit, the utilities balked, so the PUC created all kinds of convoluted language to please them and keep it out of court.
It gets really involved, but suffice it to say, the term "privately owned utilities" is no different than what Lib is to Progressive to Marxist, it is just a name. They maybe privately owned, but the regs and red tape make it impossible for and utility to make a decision without checking in with the party Apparatchik first.

No one knows the actual profit of these utilities any longer, because of all the bureaucracy in govt reporting, sure, they can show it on paper, but like a new car dealer invoice, there is more than a hundred way to show profit/loss.
Just look at the cost of energy today, when in truth little has hanged outside of govt regulations, people are paying more than twice for what they used to pay just a decade ago, despite the fact we're the worlds biggest producer exporter of oil and Ng.
So why are we paying so much? Govt monopolies. I sure hope Trump tackles this one.
Title: Minimum Wage Explained
Post by: Solar on February 26, 2019, 09:19:13 AM
https://www.prageru.com/video/who-does-a-dollar15-minimum-wage-help/
Title: Re: NYC restaurants cutting staff hours as minimum wage hits $15
Post by: taxed on February 26, 2019, 11:20:00 AM
Because as business owners we don't review the conditions of our business every single day.
Wrong.  We sure as fuck do.  I have the ulcers to prove it.  When your business is halfway successful and you're making money, you're in a constant panic with a pit in your stomach because you're scared it's going to go away.  Every day you're thinking about contingency, or how to expand or diversify product, etc.

Quote
  Generally, we are tied up in the day to day operations of running our businesses.  If there is a sudden change that forces us to evaluate our costs, sometimes we can be made aware of things we didn't know about because we lack the time or motivation to look for them.
Wrong again. Because you're in a constant state of panic, you're trying to stay ahead of any sudden changes.  As an owner, you're tied into every nook and cranny of your business, so you develop a sixth sense and can spot changes -- real or not -- a mile away.

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I assume you own a home.  Do you shop daily for better rates on insurance?  Do you calculate potential profit/ loss of replacing energy using appliances?
It's not the same as owning a business. The fact you us this as an analogy is curious.

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If time is money than spending it trying to save money comes with a cost.  If you spend it and don't find a way to save money then you've lost it.
What in the fuck are you talking about?

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As far as $10 an hour being entry-level work. 

As a business owner, ideally paying my workers as little as possible would be great for me on the cost side, but since the money of my customers is people who earn the minimum wage, paying them less causes them to look for alternatives and my profits decline.
I have no idea what you're trying to say.  Please clarify.

Quote
Thus I realize that the same people I and other businesses pay to work end up on both the cost and profit sides.  If you cut their income, they will reduce their spending.

Can someone help me decipher what he's trying to say?
Title: Re: NYC restaurants cutting staff hours as minimum wage hits $15
Post by: Solar on February 26, 2019, 11:33:27 AM

Can someone help me decipher what he's trying to say?
I don't think he knows the first thing about business. His response to everything posted came from someone pushing paper in a bureaucracy, not a real business, but someone completely disconnected from the daily workings of business.
My guess is his dad or grand father built a business, he inherited a position on the board of a company other family members run. He is completely clueless, though I'd love to see attempt to start a business based on his own advice. :biggrin:
Title: Re: NYC restaurants cutting staff hours as minimum wage hits $15
Post by: Sick Of Silence on February 26, 2019, 11:41:09 AM
They don't deserve $15 an hour. Most stand around holding up the counter. And the other night, I see people who don't belong behind that counter (too stupid).
Title: Re: NYC restaurants cutting staff hours as minimum wage hits $15
Post by: taxed on February 26, 2019, 11:59:09 AM
I've worked for some of the largest corporations in the US and the world
Me too.

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and I can tell you there isn't enough time in the day for the owner of a company to evaluate cost potential on a daily basis.
Not every business is GE or Comcast.  I know that sounds crazy, but it's true.

Quote
  If you're doing this you don't pay enough attention to other areas of your business.
This is one of the stupidest things I've heard yet.

Quote
  Advertising, technology evaluation, where you are in the marketplace.  Sure, we think about costs all the time, but true evaluation takes time and there is an opportunity cost for that time spent.
When you're the owner, you are on top of EVERYTHING.

Quote
Can I make more money attending a meeting on R&D, security, payroll and benefits issues or lowing my costs (or maybe a few of each)?
That's not how you evaluate attending meetings. Wow.

Quote
What I do didn't exist when my father ran his business (he was in construction).  I'm in IT.
Same here. Also my first company I started and sold.

Quote
Nope, I went into business with a few co-workers as we left a multi national to start our own business.
Same here.

Quote
I don't know about the business you're in, but in my business, there are multiple suppliers each with their own goals and opportunities to offer better prices depending on market conditions, but better costs require that you actively look as technology changes.  Sure, sometimes you'll get a cold call and learn about something you didn't know, but I get so many cold calls 99% of which aren't useful I tend to ignore them as I just don't have the time.
This is called "being in business".

Quote
Sure it's in my best interest to pay as little as I can for the best people I can get, but looking at the economy more broadly, my customer's customers need money to buy their products and in turn, buy mine.  When people have less money there are less potential customers for everyone.  So saying that people are worth what they can get ignore the leverage owners have over workers.  Now in fairness, I don't have any minimum wage employees.  My lowest paid employees (delivery people) are far beyond minimum wages.

Increases in pay result in increases in spending.  Increases in spending increase my income.
You tried to address a coffee shop minimum wage hike problem from the perspective of a tech company.  As one who's owned a tech company with high paid staff, and a labor company in the manufacturing sector with employees at minimum wage, and having dealt with minimum wage hikes, I can tell you minimum wage is an absolute killer.

Quote
I think you address this problem below.

If it kills them, have you ever considered that maybe they were too weak and inefficient to be in business in the first place?
No. If they were weak and inefficient, they would have gone out of business before.  Because they can be crushed under the iron boot of government doesn't mean they're running their business inefficiently.

Quote
  Being a business owner doesn't elevate you to some high level of consideration.  You act as if as business owners (or former I don't know if you are still in business) are ordained with some special consideration.  Market prices change all the time and it's our job as business owners to change and adapt.
Minimum wage is not a market force. It's the government tightening the chokehold on the neck of business.

Quote
  What's that, memory prices just doubled?
That's not government, that's the market (unless that vendor had to jack up their government-mandated wages, or had to jack up prices because of some government mandate).

Quote
  How do we deal with that?  Pass the prices on to our customers?  Sounds like a great idea, but one of my competitors either had some insight I didn't or just got lucky and has a huge inventory of memory at the old price.  If I raise my cost my customers will go to my competition?  Now what?
How about no minimum wage?

Quote
I need to look for other places to cut costs, differentiate etc....

Sure, they are becoming more efficient.  SHould we all be riding horses so buggy whip makers can stay in business?  No, times change and business adapts or it goes out of business.
Yeah, humans are a fad.

Quote
Where do you think this is all going?  In 20 years 40% of the jobs done today will be automated and as an economy, we better figure it out or as a nation, we're going to fail.
Eliminate the minimum wage and reduce the burden on business.

Quote
Sure and what do you suggest, that they accept $7.50 an hour and bury themselves in $100k debt to get an education?

I rub elbows with people like you all the time.  That thing that they are special because they own or operate a business.  That the parents should all be grateful that you bother to get out of bed each day and provide them with a job.  I see the world differently.  I'm grateful that there are so many that are willing to work for me and that they make me wealthy as I earn money from each of their efforts.

Are some of the burdens placed on me difficult and sometimes seem unfair?  Of course, but I grew up poor and I know that my "problems" aren't any worse than someone working a day job taking night classes to make themselves better.  I respect that.
It's odd that you don't seem to appreciate the risk one takes on when starting a company, especially a business such as a service like a coffee shop or restaurant.

Quote
LOL, such a bazzar sense of entielment.

Don't cost change in your business unexpectedly?  Do you complain to your suppliers that they are screwing up you 3, 5, and 7-year plans?
They're not government. Try again.

Quote
Labor is a cost and if it rises I do what I do when any of my other costs rise, I'll evaluate and make changes where I can.
It's odd you can't separate government mandated law with market forces.  Why is that?

Quote
If I can't maybe I didn't operate my business as efficiently as I could have.
Maybe the government should just leave businesses alone?

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  Perhaps my model and forecasts were wrong, perhaps I was a bad businessman?
Perhaps you're not a businessman.

Quote
The reality is if you go out of business, but your competitors don't, then it was you that was the problem, because otherwise, everyone in your bussiness would have failed.
Wrong. Government helps some businesses and not others.  Wal-Mart, for example, can withstand minimum wage hikes and seize land via eminent domain.  Mom and pop businesses can't withstand minimum wage hikes and need to hunt for real estate like everyone else.
Title: Re: NYC restaurants cutting staff hours as minimum wage hits $15
Post by: taxed on February 26, 2019, 12:06:39 PM
And if those little businesses you talk about go out of business, you're telling me that no one else will be able to provide the services they provide at a profit?
That's a wonderful attitude.  How about take the issue off the table by reducing the stranglehold of government?

Quote
  My mother-in-law, love her, but she's a terrible business person.  She opened a restaurant ran it for 10 years and turns out she went out of business because she had no solid grasp on her costs.  She wasn't utilizing P&L statements to set her prices and in the end, the restaurant she mismanaged went under.  That's her fault, course she blames everyone but herself (shhhhhh, don't tell her I told you that).
Hey, I have a secret... come here... (* whispers in Brickman's ear *)  that has nothing to do with the government jacking up wages.  (shhhh, keep that between us).

Quote
Having said that, I can agree that there are some onerous regs that very small businesses have to deal with, but paying people enough to survive isn't one of them.
Wrong. That is one of the worst things government does to a business.  Minimum wage is a killer and it's hard to survive.

Quote
You know, J.K. Galbraith said....."We're supposed to believe that the rich won't work because they don't make enough money and the poor won't work because they make too much".
Here's a better quote:

"Keep the government out of my fucking way so I can make some goddamn money."

-taxed
Title: Re: NYC restaurants cutting staff hours as minimum wage hits $15
Post by: taxed on February 26, 2019, 12:07:07 PM
They don't deserve $15 an hour. Most stand around holding up the counter. And the other night, I see people who don't belong behind that counter (too stupid).

I completely agree.
Title: Re: NYC restaurants cutting staff hours as minimum wage hits $15
Post by: taxed on February 26, 2019, 12:08:54 PM
I don't think he knows the first thing about business. His response to everything posted came from someone pushing paper in a bureaucracy, not a real business, but someone completely disconnected from the daily workings of business.
My guess is his dad or grand father built a business, he inherited a position on the board of a company other family members run. He is completely clueless, though I'd love to see attempt to start a business based on his own advice. :biggrin:

....I'm not convinced he owns a business.  He doesn't understand the difference between market forces and government.  That's a tell...
Title: Re: NYC restaurants cutting staff hours as minimum wage hits $15
Post by: Solar on February 26, 2019, 12:18:30 PM
....I'm not convinced he owns a business.  He doesn't understand the difference between market forces and government.  That's a tell...
Yeah, reading back through this thread, it sounds like he along with some coworkers went into business and he was charged with doing what he did before.
All the while, the two smarter entrepreneurs ran the business end and left him to the basics of production.
He ran off when I started using stats to back up the obvious.
Title: Re: NYC restaurants cutting staff hours as minimum wage hits $15
Post by: taxed on February 26, 2019, 12:46:53 PM
Yeah, reading back through this thread, it sounds like he along with some coworkers went into business and he was charged with doing what he did before.
All the while, the two smarter entrepreneurs ran the business end and left him to the basics of production.
He ran off when I started using stats to back up the obvious.

...I'm thinking he's the courier who delivered the contracts to the entrepreneurs, and they looked at him and said "hey, how's your coffee skills?".
Title: Re: NYC restaurants cutting staff hours as minimum wage hits $15
Post by: Solar on February 26, 2019, 02:44:48 PM
...I'm thinking he's the courier who delivered the contracts to the entrepreneurs, and they looked at him and said "hey, how's your coffee skills?".
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
"I do a mean bag of Fries".