Quote from: s3779m on January 17, 2020, 03:00:23 AM
And so, does the man with four kids get a bigger roof, more food ect. In other words how much will your plan screw the American taxpayer. Funny how you brag that your father in law had a choice to cut labor expenses but you do not want that choice given to the business man.

It all depends, are they party elite or poor working slobs? Joe actually thinks that a Marxist system is somehow for the people.

Quote from: Solar on January 17, 2020, 04:32:29 AM
It all depends, are they party elite or poor working slobs? Joe actually thinks that a Marxist system is somehow for the people.

He has a lot in common with the socialist running for president. Warren also can not give answers for how she is going to pay for all the free crap she is proposing. Warren claimed "the money will be there", I guess by magic. Beernie does not even care to explain how this will get paid for, he just drools about millionaires and billionaires while he rakes it in. Even in todays economy, which is great proof that capitalism works in every country where it is implemented, liberals see the only way is socialism. Falls back on nobody is responsible.

Don't need to apply yourself, big government will take care of you. Don't need the 2nd, big government will take care of you, don't need a daddy, big government will take care of you. We have seen their dream world, san francisco, it is the perfect example what liberal policies will accomplish. And still there are those who push that this is how we should all live. Thank God socilaist in this country are a small minority, vocal, but small, existing only because there are enough stupid people who think they deserve all the free goodies being promised.

Ever notice how all of those freebies are only discussed around election time? Makes as much sense as those who pay NO taxes complaining that tax cuts only go to the rich. I do not think those who are following the socialist bull crap really want to see the downfall of this country, I think they do not want the responsibility of taking care of themselves and want the government as a safety net, after all, someone should be able to flip burgers and have a great lifestyle, right? But for those preaching this crap, they should know better, like we discussed before, do they hate the U.S. that much to see it go down the same road as Venezuela?

When all are living in shacks, but equal shacks, will that be their dream world? Hell, lets take ambition out of the dictionary so we don't offend anyone. One of my goals was early retirement, did it, so I guess I am one of the evil ones because I did it on my own? Hey Joe, here's one more question for you to not answer, how will these people on "living wage" which is just another way of saying welfare, know when they are retired?

Quote from: s3779m on January 17, 2020, 05:07:28 AM
He has a lot in common with the socialist running for president. Warren also can not give answers for how she is going to pay for all the free crap she is proposing. Warren claimed "the money will be there", I guess by magic. Beernie does not even care to explain how this will get paid for, he just drools about millionaires and billionaires while he rakes it in. Even in todays economy, which is great proof that capitalism works in every country where it is implemented, liberals see the only way is socialism. Falls back on nobody is responsible.

Don't need to apply yourself, big government will take care of you. Don't need the 2nd, big government will take care of you, don't need a daddy, big government will take care of you. We have seen their dream world, san francisco, it is the perfect example what liberal policies will accomplish. And still there are those who push that this is how we should all live. Thank God socilaist in this country are a small minority, vocal, but small, existing only because there are enough stupid people who think they deserve all the free goodies being promised.

Ever notice how all of those freebies are only discussed around election time? Makes as much sense as those who pay NO taxes complaining that tax cuts only go to the rich. I do not think those who are following the socialist bull crap really want to see the downfall of this country, I think they do not want the responsibility of taking care of themselves and want the government as a safety net, after all, someone should be able to flip burgers and have a great lifestyle, right? But for those preaching this crap, they should know better, like we discussed before, do they hate the U.S. that much to see it go down the same road as Venezuela?

When all are living in shacks, but equal shacks, will that be their dream world? Hell, lets take ambition out of the dictionary so we don't offend anyone. One of my goals was early retirement, did it, so I guess I am one of the evil ones because I did it on my own? Hey Joe, here's one more question for you to not answer, how will these people on "living wage" which is just another way of saying welfare, know when they are retired?

True, they always campaign about free shit, then when elected, go about the process of enriching themselves while destroying the country.
The GOPe are equally guilty, they run to the right claiming they'll protect the Constitution all the while helping the dim party further erode our Freedom and liberties.

I think Joe gets it all, I think he is one of those that bought the lie that America is evil because we're exploitative Capitalists. We're inherently evil and must be destroyed at all costs.
It's called European envy.

Quote from: joesixpack on January 16, 2020, 06:50:26 PM
I'm advocating for American style central planning. We already set wages.

A job is only worth what someone is willing to pay. If a businessman is forced to pay more, it now becomes a burden on the businessman. Too much burden and there will be either higher prices or go out of business. How does this help anyone other than the person receiving the gift? Why don't we really help him out and set low prices for rent and food and transportation and clothes and medical care and everything else this person needs, after all the rest of us can pay for it right? Is this your dream place?????

Quote from: s3779m on January 17, 2020, 03:00:23 AM
And so, does the man with four kids get a bigger roof, more food ect. In other words how much will your plan screw the American taxpayer. Funny how you brag that your father in law had a choice to cut labor expenses but you do not want that choice given to the business man.

I answered that question for you in post 75

Quote from: joesixpack on January 17, 2020, 06:36:25 AM
I answered that question for you in post 75

No you did not, try again.

Quote from: s3779m on January 17, 2020, 05:29:39 AM
A job is only worth what someone is willing to pay. If a businessman is forced to pay more, it now becomes a burden on the businessman. Too much burden and there will be either higher prices or go out of business. How does this help anyone other than the person receiving the gift? Why don't we really help him out and set low prices for rent and food and transportation and clothes and medical care and everything else this person needs, after all the rest of us can pay for it right? Is this your dream place?????

or nothing at all as in the case of Taco Bell. They might make lower profits but don't have to raise prices and wouldn't be in danger of going out of business.

Quote from: s3779m on January 17, 2020, 06:37:42 AM
No you did not, try again.

Re-read it. You seem confused

Quote from: joesixpack on January 17, 2020, 06:39:29 AM
or nothing at all as in the case of Taco Bell. They might make lower profits but don't have to raise prices and wouldn't be in danger of going out of business.

When profits get too low they go out of business. When profits go too low you take away expansion. When profits go too low you take away investors. Joe, I have to say for once I have met someone who can not see how business works. Nothing is free, if you are going to pay for a job more than it is worth, it is a form of welfare and SOMEONE has to pay for it.  You bragged that your father in law was able to side step the high cost of putting on a roof, yet you want a business man to be forced to pay more than a job is worth. That's not confusion, that is being a hypocrite.

Quote from: s3779m on January 17, 2020, 06:55:08 AM
When profits get too low they go out of business. When profits go too low you take away expansion. When profits go too low you take away investors. Joe, I have to say for once I have met someone who can not see how business works. Nothing is free, if you are going to pay for a job more than it is worth, it is a form of welfare and SOMEONE has to pay for it.  You bragged that your father in law was able to side step the high cost of putting on a roof, yet you want a business man to be forced to pay more than a job is worth. That's not confusion, that is being a hypocrite.

Why do roofers/construction workers do freelance work?

Because they get paid more for it than by working directly with their companies. I know. I've asked plenty of guys and I get most all my work done that way.

Maybe the business man should pay his employees more so that they don't undercut him. Or provide benefits or something...

Quote from: joesixpack on January 17, 2020, 07:03:13 AM
Why do roofers/construction workers do freelance work?

Because they get paid more for it than by working directly with their companies. I know. I've asked plenty of guys and I get most all my work done that way.

Maybe the business man should pay his employees more so that they don't undercut him. Or provide benefits or something...

There are jobs out there that are all over the pay scale. Want a job that pays $50 an hour, its out there. You might have to better yourself to get it, more education, better work skills, or just get better at your job. That is how the system works. What you are wanting is nothing more than welfare. Good bye Joe, wish you luck. That world you want is out there in other countries where the government controls everything, wages, prices, rent, medical care. You just need to go find it.

Quote from: s3779m on January 17, 2020, 07:09:53 AM
There are jobs out there that are all over the pay scale. Want a job that pays $50 an hour, its out there. You might have to better yourself to get it, more education, better work skills, or just get better at your job. That is how the system works. What you are wanting is nothing more than welfare. Good bye Joe, wish you luck. That world you want is out there in other countries where the government controls everything, wages, prices, rent, medical care. You just need to go find it.

Good day. Good conversation.

but just an FYI: that place is already America. The governments (federal, state, and local) here already does all of that to some degree.

I'll leave it at that

Quote from: joesixpack on January 17, 2020, 07:03:13 AM
Why do roofers/construction workers do freelance work?

Because they get paid more for it than by working directly with their companies. I know. I've asked plenty of guys and I get most all my work done that way.

Maybe the business man should pay his employees more so that they don't undercut him. Or provide benefits or something...

If what you state is the case, why do these folks not start their own businesses?

Quote from: supsalemgr on January 17, 2020, 08:04:05 AM
If what you state is the case, why do these folks not start their own businesses?

I think it is called some money under the table.   Also most of these folks will not gave a finishing date for a project.  Always have start and finish date for work being done. 

Quote from: joesixpack on January 17, 2020, 07:23:34 AM
Good day. Good conversation.

but just an FYI: that place is already America. The governments (federal, state, and local) here already does all of that to some degree.

I'll leave it at that

Not so fast, you don't just dismiss everyone and run off after coming out for a Marxist system, not on this forum, you don't.

I gave you two examples of what you're advocating, I want to know how you plan to make this BS work.

Quote from: Solar on January 16, 2020, 06:39:28 PM
So you're advocating for a Soviet style central planning bureaucracy, Right?
And that's fine, problem is, lets assume they pull this off and raise wages across the US. Guess what happens without price controls in place?
Can't fathom that? OK, costs on every product produced skyrockets to the end consumer because the producer has to make it up due to exorbitant wage increases.
So suddenly that living wage is no longer enough to subsist on is it.

See? There are serious ramifications to govt interference in a free mkt. Do you still think it's such a good idea, or are you going to advocate for price freezes first, which comes with its own economy collapsing side effects.

Quote from: Solar on January 16, 2020, 07:07:37 PM
Central planning under any name you choose is Marxist. OK, so now you're advocating for central planning since you were able to set a living wage.
How will you save the economy now that industry had to raise their CODB and passed the increases onto the end purchaser, consumer, what will you do to assure the living wage remains intact?

Point is, every time you adjust one part of the economy, you adversely effect another. So how do you plan on fixing your mistake in screwing up the economy, at this point is collapsing.
You see, whether it's food, or transportation, all costs increase, including our ability to sell our over priced products to other countries.

Now, we not only have a collapsed economy, we can't even sell our own crap because no one wants to pay 10 times the price for something  they can get anywhere else in the world for less.
This is the result of central planning as opposed to the free Mkt setting prices.