Lets get this party started: The Bush Mortgage Bubble

Started by Vern, January 26, 2013, 10:53:58 AM

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Vern

Lets examine the bush policies that encouraged, funded and protected the mortgage bubble that devastated the economy and almost destroyed the financial system.  First a little background.  when did the Bush Mortgage Bubble start?  Lets ask Bush's Working Group on Financial Markets.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/fin-mkts/Documents/q4progress%20update.pdf

the President's Working Group on Financial Markets October 2008

The Presidents Working Group's March policy statement acknowledged that turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007.

Solar

You do realize Bush warned the Dims about the bubble, yet they did nothing to stop it.
Bush alone is not responsible, it took the two Dims to screw it all up.

I might add Bush did a lot of stupid things, like signing this Bill, but it is the Leftists that take the majority of the blame, since it was they who wrote the Bill and sponsored it as well.

Rewriting the rules of fiscal responsibility to buy votes, will always come back to bite you in the ass, unfortunately we are all paying for the crap the left inflicted upon the Country.
http://www.truthandcommonsense.org/
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

Vern

"You do realize Bush warned the Dims about the bubble, yet they did nothing to stop it."

I wasnt really looking to shred that silly narrative just yet but you seem like the persistent type.  I know you think that 10 second clip of Barney saying there is nothng wrong with Freddie and Fannie as proof of what you believe but it only proves barney said it.  Lets review some facts you probably are not aware of:

1 Dems were in the minority in congress. 
2 Bush told barney frank there was nothing wrong with Freddie and Fannie (and there was nothing wrong at the time, the Bush Mortgage Bubble  hadnt started yet, see above link)
3 the GSE 'reform' bill had nothing to do with subprime
4 Bush stopped the GSE reform in 2003
 
You can prove 1 for yourself (hopefully). Here's Bush 'telling' Barney there is nothing wrong with Freddie and Fannie. 

Testimony from W's Treasury Secretary John Snow to the REPUBLICAN CONGRESS concerning the 'regulation' of the GSE's
"
"
Mr. Frank: ...Are we in a crisis now with these entities?

Secretary Snow. No, that is a fair characterization, Congressman Frank, of our position. We are not putting this proposal before you because of some concern over some imminent danger to the financial system for housing; far from it.
"

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=108_house_hearings&docid=f:92231.wais

Vern

As I said, the magical 'reform' had nothing to do with Subprime.  How do I know? Bush already had the ability to limit the GSEs from buying subprime mortgages. (remember this later when I show the explosion of subprime mortgages starting in 2004)

The Clinton admin recognizes an increase in abusive subprime loans.  Issues rule preventing the GSEs from counting them against their housing goals.  Subprime growth stops

"(In 2000) HUD restricted Freddie and Fannie, saying it would not credit them for loans they purchased that had abusively high costs or that were granted without regard to the borrower's ability to repay."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/09/AR2008060902626_2.html

Part of Bush's clearly stated and repeated goal to increase homeownership rates, he eliminates the rule

"In 2004, the 2000 rules were dropped and high‐risk loans were again counted toward affordable housing goals."
http://www.prmia.org/pdf/Case_Studies/Fannie_Mae_and_Freddie_Mac_090911_v2.pdf


supsalemgr

Another lib that needs a very good shampoo for all the sand in their hair.
"If you can't run with the big dawgs, stay on the porch!"

Vern

oh and pay very special attention to the phrase "the borrower's ability to repay" from above.  anyhoo, here's Bush stopping the reform you've think would have prevented the Bush Mortgage Bubble.   

"Despite what appeared to be a broad consensus on GSE regulatory reform, efforts quickly stalled. A legislative markup scheduled for October 8, 2003, in the House of Representatives was halted because the Bush administration withdrew its support for the bill,"

http://www.frbatlanta.org/filelegacydocs/er04_framewhite.pdf

Now I know you are already convincing yourself the Atlanta Reserve Bank is lying but when I post Bush's actual policies starting with the one above allowing abusive subprime loans to count towards their goals, you will see he was in no way trying to stop anything.

JustKari

Oh,look, another lib starting a blame Bush thread.  Here's a thought, do a search here for "Bush" because there is NOTHING new you have to offer.  Sites archive for a reason.   :rolleyes:

Vern

well just kari, I'll give you credit, you sorta responded to what I posted.  A vast improvment over supsale's post but I think you are claiming you already knew the things I've posted.  So lets review, you are saying the following facts are 'NOTHING new"

1 the Bush Mortgage Bubble started late 2004 when banks (banks not freddie and fannie) lowered their lending standards
2 Dems were in the minority in congress in 2003
3 Bush told barney frank there was nothing wrong with Freddie and Fannie
4 the 2003 GSE 'reform' bill had nothing to do with subprime
5 Bush stopped the GSE 'reform' in 2003
6 Bush reversed the Clinton rule that actually reined in the GSE's subprime purchases


Solar


Wow, all that nonsense to place all the blame on Bush, yet precluding all Dim culpability of the fact that it was the Left that pushed for an open ended funding of loans.

As I said earlier, Bush did a lot of stupid crap, and you won't find anyone here defending it, but it was a Dim Bill that kept the bubble growing till it popped.
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

Vern

while we wait for just kari, lets continue with the bush policies that caused the Bush Mortgage Bubble. 

here Bush forces freddie and fannie to increase their purchases of 'low income' loans. .   Forcing them to increase their purchases just after he reversed the Clinton rule that reined them in doesnt really qualify as "trying to stop it".

"HUD DATA SHOWS FANNIE MAE AND FREDDIE MAC HAVE TRAILED THE INDUSTRY IN PROVIDING AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN 44 STATES
New regulations will increase mortgage financing for homebuyers and underserved communities"

http://archives.hud.gov/news/2004/pr04-066.cfm

Vern

"but it was a Dim Bill that kept the bubble growing till it popped"

sorry solar, I'll need more than just your repeated assurances on the matter.  Remember, you thought Bush tried to stop the Bush Mortgage Bubble. Well, now you know he didnt.  And since no such 'Dim Bill' exists, you wont be backing that statement up anytime soon.  (he will repeat it though).

anyhoo, lets see what the entire mortgage industry thought of Bush forcing Freddie and Fannie to buy more low income home loans. 

http://money.cnn.com/2004/06/17/real_estate/lowcost_housing/index.htm

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Home builders, realtors and others are preparing to fight a Bush administration plan that would require Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to increase financing of homes for low-income people, a home builder group said Thursday.

taxed

Quote from: Vern on January 26, 2013, 12:02:55 PM
"You do realize Bush warned the Dims about the bubble, yet they did nothing to stop it."

I wasnt really looking to shred that silly narrative just yet but you seem like the persistent type.  I know you think that 10 second clip of Barney saying there is nothng wrong with Freddie and Fannie as proof of what you believe but it only proves barney said it.  Lets review some facts you probably are not aware of:

1 Dems were in the minority in congress. 
2 Bush told barney frank there was nothing wrong with Freddie and Fannie (and there was nothing wrong at the time, the Bush Mortgage Bubble  hadnt started yet, see above link)
3 the GSE 'reform' bill had nothing to do with subprime
4 Bush stopped the GSE reform in 2003
 
You can prove 1 for yourself (hopefully). Here's Bush 'telling' Barney there is nothing wrong with Freddie and Fannie. 

Testimony from W's Treasury Secretary John Snow to the REPUBLICAN CONGRESS concerning the 'regulation' of the GSE's
"
"
Mr. Frank: ...Are we in a crisis now with these entities?

Secretary Snow. No, that is a fair characterization, Congressman Frank, of our position. We are not putting this proposal before you because of some concern over some imminent danger to the financial system for housing; far from it.
"

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=108_house_hearings&docid=f:92231.wais

I appreciate you trying to sound like you know what you're talking about, and it is adorable.

First things first, who controlled the House during the Community Reinvestment Act?
#PureBlood #TrumpWon

Vern

"I appreciate you trying to sound like you know what you're talking about, and it is adorable"

first, I made clear straightforward statements and I backed them up.  That actually is adorable. So taxed, what did you think of Bush reversing the Clinton rule that actually reined in Freddie and Fannie or Bush forcing Freddie and Fannie to buy more low income home loans or Bush stopping GSE reform. I noticed you didnt comment on those.

"First things first, who controlled the House during the Community Reinvestment Act?"

that statement is actually an example of someone trying to sound like they know what they are talking about. And its not adorable because it makes no sense.  The CRA was enacted in 1977 but the Bush Mortgage Bubble started in late 2004 (remember, bush told you that in the first post of this thread).  But if you are implying that somehow the CRA was responsible and its important who controlled the house, well silly fool, republicans controlled the house from 1995 to 2007. 

for future reference taxed, make a point and back it up. come back when you can do that.  fyi, here's the Fed backing up Bush's timeline and cause of the Bush Mortgage Bubble and for a bonus, they tell you your CRA delusions are just that, delusions

Since 1995 there has been essentially no change in the basic CRA rules or enforcement process that can be reasonably linked to the subprime lending activity. This fact weakens the link between the CRA and the current crisis since the crisis is rooted in poor performance of mortgage loans made between 2004 and 2007. "


http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/speech/20081203_analysis.pdf

taxed

Quote from: Vern on January 26, 2013, 05:27:11 PM
"I appreciate you trying to sound like you know what you're talking about, and it is adorable"

first, I made clear straightforward statements and I backed them up.  That actually is adorable. So taxed, what did you think of Bush reversing the Clinton rule that actually reined in Freddie and Fannie or Bush forcing Freddie and Fannie to buy more low income home loans or Bush stopping GSE reform. I noticed you didnt comment on those.

"First things first, who controlled the House during the Community Reinvestment Act?"

that statement is actually an example of someone trying to sound like they know what they are talking about. And its not adorable because it makes no sense.  The CRA was enacted in 1977 but the Bush Mortgage Bubble started in late 2004 (remember, bush told you that in the first post of this thread).  But if you are implying that somehow the CRA was responsible and its important who controlled the house, well silly fool, republicans controlled the house from 1995 to 2007. 

for future reference taxed, make a point and back it up. come back when you can do that.  fyi, here's the Fed backing up Bush's timeline and cause of the Bush Mortgage Bubble and for a bonus, they tell you your CRA delusions are just that, delusions

Since 1995 there has been essentially no change in the basic CRA rules or enforcement process that can be reasonably linked to the subprime lending activity. This fact weakens the link between the CRA and the current crisis since the crisis is rooted in poor performance of mortgage loans made between 2004 and 2007. "


http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/speech/20081203_analysis.pdf

Let me try this again.

Who controlled the House, and who signed, the Community Reinvestment Act.

Unfortunately for you, your liberal BS will be dissected here.  Please answer my question.
#PureBlood #TrumpWon

kramarat

Vern is 100% correct.

The government has absolutely no business manipulating what should be private enterprise.

The government has only one responsibility........enforcing the agreed upon laws that govern free enterprise.

That's it.

When they lose track of what it is we hire them for and start trying to control things, everything goes to shit.

Next?