Lets get this party started: The Bush Mortgage Bubble

Started by Vern, January 26, 2013, 10:53:58 AM

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kramarat

Quote from: Solar on January 27, 2013, 02:26:28 PM
How can someone be so blind as to not see the real problem? Big Govt!

Exactly. I don't think Vern spent much time perusing the site before he blasted off.

Blind worship of republicans, (including Bush), doesn't exist here.

taxed

Quote from: Vern on January 27, 2013, 07:31:48 AM
  And FYI dont me questions like taxed.

One thing about liberals is they are VERY, VERY scared to commit to a fact on their own.  This is because liberal propaganda is not built on fact, but a smokescreen.  By committing and admitting to a fact, you build a piece of the foundation of the argument against you (also known as "the truth").

Any visitors, from this point on, will not only see the facts Solar, Kram, Boo, TL, etc., have presented, they will see you cowering away from answering a very simple question, simply because you don't have the intellect to continue the discussion on a factual basis.

Let me ask again and see if you are willing to answer a simple question:  who held the House, Senate, and the Office during the CRA?
#PureBlood #TrumpWon

taxed

Quote from: Vern on January 27, 2013, 07:57:21 AM
wow, talk about a smoking gun.  could you imagine the screams from the right if Barney Frank said that? (again taxed, its a rhetorical question). 

He was a ranking member on the Financial Services Committee, genius.  Chris Dodd was Chairman of the Senate Banking Committee.

For the forum record, what party member did these two belong to?
#PureBlood #TrumpWon

taxed

Quote from: TowardLiberty on January 27, 2013, 09:14:03 AM
The housing bubble was part of an even larger credit bubble in the derivatives market.

And I have yet to see a single post address the real causal forces that enabled the bubble. Not a word has been said on it.

But much has been said about the CRA and Fannie and Freddie- which are interventions that distorted the housing market, but did not create the bubble as much as they steered it.

Credit bubbles are rooted in monetary manipulations, specifically, credit expansion and artificially low interest rates.

And the shadow banking conduits of repurchase agreements and re-hypothecation, which effectively are the creation of a banking system with no deposits, much larger than the traditional one, is the arena where 21st century credit bubbles play out.

The boom and bust we saw in the housing market was merely a symptom of the boom and bust in leveraged credit "money," or what has been referred to as the "churn."
Totally!
#PureBlood #TrumpWon

taxed

Quote from: Vern on January 27, 2013, 10:28:37 AM
". That's the real Barney Frank, (in 2003), saying that there is no crisis. I don't know WTF I can do to get you to acknowledge that."

er uh kram, I've never denied Barney Frank saying there is no crisis in 2003.  Like all republicans, you are arguing a false point to avoid arguing the actual facts. You are denying the fact that Bush told barney in 2003 that there was no crisis.  . You are denying that Bush stopped reform in 2003 (read that part again and slowly). You are denying that the Bush Mortgage Bubble didnt start until late 2004. And you are denying the Bush policies that encouraged, protected and funded the Bush Mortgage bubble that bush enacted in 2004. there's that year again.

what did you think about bush stopping reform again in 2005?

You are adorable.

First of all, you need to start using the quote function.  Your liberal attempt to obfuscate the discussion won't work here.  Use the quote button, please.

Secondly, why did Frank say that?  What was he opposing that Bush was trying to do, and why was Bush trying to do it?  Again, simple, easy questions.
#PureBlood #TrumpWon

Vern

One thing about liberals is they are VERY, VERY scared to commit to a fact on their own.  "

holy jesus taxed. I've done nothing but make clear straightforward statements and then backed them up with solid factual links. Show this thread to somebody because I think you need help.

"Let me ask again and see if you are willing to answer a simple question:  who held the House, Senate, and the Office during the CRA?"

first off, you were not clear the first time you asked. And the first two times you asked you seem to leave off the fact that there is a senate chamber in congress.  And again, your phrasing "during the CRA" makes no sense.  If you mean who was president and who controlled congress when the CRA was passed why cant you just say it and make your silly point. 

hey taxed, do me a favor and start a thread blaming the CRA with the answer to your silly question.  If I start one Mr Stall will merge it to make it hard to follow the clear straightforward points that I make and back up with solid factual links.

"Secondly, why did Frank say that?  "

he was repeating what Bush told him and because in 2003 there was nothing wrong with freddie and fannie

"He was a ranking member on the Financial Services Committee, genius.  Chris Dodd was Chairman of the Senate Banking Committee."

er uh taxed, republicans controlled congress. If you cant even get those simple facts right, I cant help you.

Cryptic Bert

I love the "refusing to make a loan to someone that cannot pay it back is illegal" argument. If that were actually the case then everyone would get approved for loans. That would not be a need for credit rating...or a job.

walkstall

Quote from: taxed on January 27, 2013, 02:46:43 PM
You are adorable.

First of all, you need to start using the quote function.  Your liberal attempt to obfuscate the discussion won't work here.  Use the quote button, please.

Secondly, why did Frank say that?  What was he opposing that Bush was trying to do, and why was Bush trying to do it?  Again, simple, easy questions.

This will be the second time he as ast to use the quote function.  It must be bush's fault that he don't know how. 
A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."

taxed

Quote from: Vern on January 27, 2013, 11:54:40 AM
In 2004, 4.3 % of mortgages were No Doc loans.  thats how you give loans to cab drivers and other people without a W2. 

In 2006 over 50 % of all loans were No Doc loans. Thats how you give loans to people who cant afford the loan. Strangely Bush's regulators let them.  "easing" is another way of saying lower lending standards.

"Another form of easing facilitated the rapid rise of mortgages that didn't require borrowers to fully document their incomes. In 2006, these low- or no-doc loans comprised 81 percent of near-prime, 55 percent of jumbo, 50 percent of subprime and 36 percent of prime securitized mortgages."

http://www.dallasfed.org/assets/documents/research/eclett/2007/el0711.pdf

Here is Barney Frank in 2005, saying there is no bubble.
Barney Frank in 2005: What Housing Bubble?

Now, that's interesting, because that's when I got into real estate investing, and saw, and recognized the bubble first hand.  I saw tons of those no docs all over the place.  I could write a book on it from my experience.

My question is if little old me plainly saw an acknowledged an emerging bubble, then why not Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, or his main fannie Herb Moses at Fannie, who was making a ton off the legislation and policy Frank supported and pushed?
#PureBlood #TrumpWon

taxed

Quote from: Vern on January 27, 2013, 02:58:06 PM
One thing about liberals is they are VERY, VERY scared to commit to a fact on their own.  "

holy jesus taxed. I've done nothing but make clear straightforward statements and then backed them up with solid factual links. Show this thread to somebody because I think you need help.

"Let me ask again and see if you are willing to answer a simple question:  who held the House, Senate, and the Office during the CRA?"

first off, you were not clear the first time you asked. And the first two times you asked you seem to leave off the fact that there is a senate chamber in congress.  And again, your phrasing "during the CRA" makes no sense.  If you mean who was president and who controlled congress when the CRA was passed why cant you just say it and make your silly point. 

hey taxed, do me a favor and start a thread blaming the CRA with the answer to your silly question.  If I start one Mr Stall will merge it to make it hard to follow the clear straightforward points that I make and back up with solid factual links.

"Secondly, why did Frank say that?  "

he was repeating what Bush told him and because in 2003 there was nothing wrong with freddie and fannie

"He was a ranking member on the Financial Services Committee, genius.  Chris Dodd was Chairman of the Senate Banking Committee."

er uh taxed, republicans controlled congress. If you cant even get those simple facts right, I cant help you.

Let's try this again.  8 times is a charm.

Who had control during the passing of the CRA?  Come on... you can do it....
#PureBlood #TrumpWon

taxed

Quote from: Vern on January 27, 2013, 02:58:06 PM
hey taxed, do me a favor and start a thread blaming the CRA with the answer to your silly question.  If I start one Mr Stall will merge it to make it hard to follow the clear straightforward points that I make and back up with solid factual links.
I'm not blaming the CRA itself.  I'm going to build the case that liberalism did this, using your own words, piece by piece.

Let's get this first one out of the way.  Who passed the CRA?


Quote
"Secondly, why did Frank say that?  "

he was repeating what Bush told him and because in 2003 there was nothing wrong with freddie and fannie
What was Bush trying to do that Frank opposed?  Again, another very, very easy answer.


Quote
"He was a ranking member on the Financial Services Committee, genius.  Chris Dodd was Chairman of the Senate Banking Committee."

er uh taxed, republicans controlled congress. If you cant even get those simple facts right, I cant help you.

That's correct.  Aside from you showing you don't understand what committee seats mean, what is your point?
#PureBlood #TrumpWon

kramarat

Quote from: taxed on January 27, 2013, 03:04:56 PM
Here is Barney Frank in 2005, saying there is no bubble.
Barney Frank in 2005: What Housing Bubble?

Now, that's interesting, because that's when I got into real estate investing, and saw, and recognized the bubble first hand.  I saw tons of those no docs all over the place.  I could write a book on it from my experience.

My question is if little old me plainly saw an acknowledged an emerging bubble, then why not Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, or his main fannie Herb Moses at Fannie, who was making a ton off the legislation and policy Frank supported and pushed?

I wonder if Bush told him to say that? :biggrin:

I know a guy that was getting no doc loans back in those days, and buying property. Even he couldn't believe they were loaning him money with no proof required that he could pay it back. It was a freaking government created feeding frenzy.

Nice catch on the video. There's the big dummy himself saying that there aren't any problems because houses are real, and they will be pushing more of these idiotic loans.

Vern-When he says "push" he means they will continue to force the banks to loan money to people that can't pay it back.

taxed

Quote from: kramarat on January 27, 2013, 03:28:42 PM
I wonder if Bush told him to say that? :biggrin:

I know a guy that was getting no doc loans back in those days, and buying property. Even he couldn't believe they were loaning him money with no proof required that he could pay it back. It was a freaking government created feeding frenzy.

Nice catch on the video. There's the big dummy himself saying that there aren't any problems because houses are real, and they will be pushing more of these idiotic loans.

Vern-When he says "push" he means they will continue to force the banks to loan money to people that can't pay it back.

Yeah, Vern is way over his head on this topic.....
#PureBlood #TrumpWon

Vern

Quote from: taxed on January 27, 2013, 03:17:12 PM
That's correct.  Aside from you showing you don't understand what committee seats mean, what is your point?

er uh taxed, you cant be 'chairman' if your party is in the minority.

Quote from: taxed on January 27, 2013, 03:12:08 PM
Let's try this again.  8 times is a charm.

Who had control during the passing of the CRA?  Come on... you can do it....

Well I know Carter was president and I'm guessing dems controlled congress congress in 1977 but that has nothing to do with the Bush Mortgage Bubble that started in 2004. why cant people just make a point? (again taxed, its a rhetorical question)

Quote from: walkstall on January 27, 2013, 03:01:07 PM
This will be the second time he as ast to use the quote function.  It must be bush's fault that he don't know how. 

Great moderating there Mr Stall. Its good to know you take your duties seriously. While you are moderating, maybe you could help explain the republican obsession with Barney Frank. 

Vern

mmmm, a minority member of congress thinks there is no bubble. Can someone tell me how that makes him responsible?  Its not like Barney forced Freddie and Fannie to buy more low income home loans (barney criticized that). Its not like barney allowed freddie and fannie to buy abusive subprime loans (barney criticized that). its not like barney PROTECTED PREDATORY LENDERS (barney criticized that).

If bush says the same thing, will cons blame him? probably not

Thursday, October 27, 2005; Page D01
Ben S. Bernanke does not think the national housing boom is a bubble that is about to burst, he indicated to Congress last week, just a few days before President Bush nominated him to become the next chairman of the Federal Reserve.
U.S. house prices have risen by nearly 25 percent over the past two years, noted Bernanke, currently chairman of the president's Council of Economic Advisers, in testimony to Congress's Joint Economic Committee. But these increases, he said, "largely reflect strong economic fundamentals

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/26/AR2005102602255.html