Quote from: cubedemon on August 04, 2015, 07:52:15 AM
Yes, it is true that these things are success/winning.   I will buy that.   I'm talking about a particular type of success/winning.   What I'm talking is being able to provide for oneself and becoming and remaining employed either by being self-employed or employed by someone else.   I'm not talking about climbing a mountain, drinking a cup of tea and holding my pinky out the correct way.  I'm talking about success in employment so one can support and sustain himself  in America in the year 2015.  This is what I'm talking about.

Then start your own business.
What I see is someone that plans on a continual basis, and never actually starts to implement his plans.

QuoteWell, let's use your own logic.   By your own logic, it shouldn't even matter what I fail to recognize or not fail to recognize.   Pessimism shouldn't even be a barrier whatsoever to winning anything in any context.   By your own logic, that anyone and everyone can succeed in the USA no matter who they are, what their disablities, abilites, personalities, genetics, etc are including those who fall in the pessimism camp and those who you say are whiners and complainers.   

Like I said, it's all relative to ones situation.
Say you lived in an extremely poor country, you have labored to bring water to your home from a spring a mile away.
One day you develop a way of routing the water closer to your home, to you, this was a huge success, a win for the village, you are a hero to the towns people.
Success is relative to your situation. Same with the guy that struggles to dress himself, to him, making his own meal on his own is a success, a win, it's all relative.

You fail too see the little successes in your life, all the while looking at what appears to you as an impermeable wall of impediments.

QuoteBy your own logic if we consider success as defined in getting and keeping a job in 2015 America as the y variable and one's emotional state including their pessimism and whining as the x variable and this is on a 2-d Cartesian plane then again by your own logic the y variable (success as per the definition I presented or any other definition that exists) should not be dependent upon the x variable (pessimism and whining).  Y should be an independent variable to X by your own logic yet you're saying that it is not.  Why?

Speak English.

QuoteWhy can't one be pessimistic against pessimism itself?   If one used your logic that pessimism can be a barrier to winning then by your own reasoning then your own pessimistic beliefs against pessimism and whining should be a barrier to winning as well.   If we take the negation of negation of something than in formal boolean logic then we would have the positive and by your own logic positivity, optimism and belief in one's self and one's own abilities should be a barrier to one's success as well?   So, which is it?

WTF are you trying to convey this time?
Maybe it's because I'm not a pessimist, that your logic fails me, I'm an eternal optimist, pessimism is not part of my vocabulary.

QuoteMaybe we're talking about two different things.  I'm talking about being able to sustain oneself in America by getting and keeping a job whether it is self employed or employed by someone else.

I think you are caught up in your inabilities and fail to recognize your abilities.
Can you collect scrap metal? Then you have a source of income, while on your travels you could carry a sign advertising for a sandwich shop.
The point is, one has to take the initiative and simply find a starting place.

QuoteWhy does it even matter whether I am incapable of recognizing success as per your definition? 

It's not my definition. As I pointed out, it's all relative, what I see as an optimist, is anything that one views an achievement is a success, while it would appear you fail to recognoize these tiny moments as a positive.
I had a good poop this morning, for me, that was a success because it started the day off right.

QuoteYes sir!  Indeed I am!

I said: "You are an answer in search of a question."
You really need to think deep on that.

Quotehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_7_Habits_of_Highly_Effective_People

Sometimes one has to look at the end goal of what one is trying to accomplish.   Even Steven Covey who in his 2nd habit of highly effective people wrote that one has to begin with the end in mind.  One has to be able to envision the future to achieve what one desires to achieve.   Here is the problem with me.  What I am missing is the concrete and specific steps as to what one is supposed to do to proceed further.

In business one has a 1, 3, and 5 year plan, these are incremental goals.
The first year is just staying afloat, the 3rd year is reevaluating what you've accomplished, this is the point of make or break as to whether or not you continue in your venture.
At the 5th year point, you look at your finances and start a new set of goals for the long term future.

So you see, there is no real end goal, a true end goal would be looking back at ones life with no regrets.
I have made every goal I set for myself, and I must admit, I was ecstatic when I met them, but as time went by, I became bored, I needed to set new goals or die on the vine from apathy.

Quote
Let's say I wanted to work for walmart for whatever reason as a bag boy, cashier, deli, etc. 

Now, I go online or to their kiosk at the store and fill out the application and their other stuff including personality tests, place of residence, race, etc.  I've been told to call back to determine if I have the job or not.  Here is what happens.   I'm usually told that they will hire me when they need me.   What did I do wrong?   What were the steps that I needed to do next?   I've applied at hotels to carry luggage as well.   Again, same exact result.   Is there something specific that I am missing?   What I need are specifics not some sloganized and hackneyed ideas about attitude and success which state nothign.   It is the same thing with IT?   What specific steps do I need to take exactly? 

I'll give you some advice as an employer.
The person I hire will be the one that truly wanted the job, the person that called me or came by twice a week to see if I needed help.
I understand this is a social issue for you, as in "Am I pestering the guy too much"?
Then ask a few for help, try and befriend one of his employees, ask them if you are approaching him properly, not all employers are affable, some are complete dick heads, so seek help.

QuoteIt is true that I have had some excellent accomplishments in my life but again it is irrelevant to what I am asking and saying in all of the posts that I've written here.

I think part of your problem is looking at an end goal. Try little goals for yourself. Note these as achievements.

It seems to me, Cubedemon, that you are grasping desperately for an exception to the claim "Anyone who wants to and is willing to work hard can succeed."  OK, fine. Let's examine that.

As has been pointed out, success (ie: "winning") is an entirely relative term.  It is relative to the circumstances in which the individual is ensconced.  But you keep trying to find a single, one-size-fits-all definition of winning/success.  And that is why you are finding it so frustrating.

Winning is relative. There is no one-size-fits-all definition to which one can search for an exception.  Some people were born with severe disabilities, so if we try to apply a definition of "providing the necessities of life for oneself" to success, and then apply it to them, they will, of course, not be able to meet that definition. However, even the most severe of cases can - and do- have their individual successes, such as gaining the ability to dress themselves in the morning, or even something so mundane as learning to grasp their own spoon to feed themselves.

Winning is not a simple concept limited to whom comes in first place.  We have already established that idea. Every person has small wins every day in their lives, regardless of their individual abilities.  As I have stated before, if the organism retires at the end of the day still breathing, they have won over those which are not.  My nephew, who is severely handicapped due to cerebral palsy, who at 32 still needs his diaper changed several time a day, still has personal successes.

Whenever someone takes on a task, if they complete that task they have a win.  It does not matter what the task is, because the completion of a task is relative to the person trying to accomplish it.  I tie my shoes in a few seconds each without even thinking about it. My youngest grandson takes 30 seconds to a minute each, carefully puzzling it out because he only just learned the task.  As such, tying shoes is a very small accomplishment for myself, but is a success worthy of bragging for my grandson.  BUT, for both of us, having our shoes properly tied is till an accomplishment which brings about a feeling of success. We can now go for a walk together.  Similarly, I can eat a bowl of cereal with little conscious thought on the task of filling my belly. My nephew with cerebral palsy has a specially designed spoon with which he feeds himself through significant difficulty.  Finishing a bowl of cereal is a HUGE accomplishment to him, and it is easy to see the joy in his face when he does so without any need for a break or assistance.

The feeling of satisfaction from accomplishing a task is also relative, and is unique to each individual.  But, it CAN be said that the positive feeling is proportional to the difficulty of the task. Going back to my nephew and the task of feeding, when I feed myself a bowl of cereal the end feeling of accomplishment is minimal for myself because it is a task which makes no significant demands on my abilities. However, the feeling of accomplishment for my nephew is HUGE on those days he manages to finish his breakfast all by himself. That is because his motor skills are so impaired, simply moving a specially designed spoon from the bowl to his mouth enough times to finish is enormously difficult.  But my brother and his wife push him every day to do it by himself, even though most days it ends with a temper tantrum.  Why?  Because it is ESSENTIAL for every human being, regardless of ability, to have those successes which lead to feelings of accomplishment.

It is also important for each individual to push their abilities, develop new ones as circumstances demand and/or allow. I no longer derive much pleasure in tying my shoes.  But I do remember the day I first did so on my own, and the feeling it brought to me.  Since tying my shoes is no longer a challenge (except when my somewhat oversized belly gets in the way....) then I need to find other tasks which DO challenge my abilities.

To sum up, success is a relative concept, winning is relative to the circumstances and abilities of the individual, but in the end EVERYONE who TRIES can achieve successes.  The greater their abilities, the greater the task needs to be to bring about feelings of accomplishment. But everyone does so.

Quote from: Solar on July 22, 2015, 12:38:06 PM
The best advice my dad gave me when I started working, was show up early, be ready to work and do as you're asked and you'll never be without work.

I grew up in a family business, my dad was an excellent salesman, could really 'read' people - but I just didn't learn it.
Instead, he gave me other advice, which has been invaluable to me.

a.  There is always someone out there that will work 2x faster than you, do twice as good a job and for half the pay.
So -WHAT- makes you so special...?   (sheepishly I answered once, 'Uh... I'm your son...?)

b.  Don't marry someone like your mother (she was a feminist...)

c.  Regarding my wife - "Don't let this one get away, Bill.  She's the best one yet!"
On that advice, I started looking for what he saw in her that I wasn't - married her, and have continued to study her for 35 years, slowly realizing one reason after another, why dad was right!


On the bright side, it's better to BLOW 90K when you're young, and get your act together to salvage the rest of your life!

KJ4ADN - Bill

Quote from: Solar on July 22, 2015, 08:56:58 AM
Talk about entitled?
Dave Ramsey talked about this last week, and all I could do was shake my head.

Have you ever given your child (or grandchild) something you thought would be a blessing but your gift ended up being a hindrance instead? Veruca Salt (who is an extreme example) comes to mind. She's the spoiled rotten girl from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory who repeatedly screamed, "I want it all, and I want it now!" And she's all I could picture as I listened to a 22-year-old college student who was gifted $90,000 for college by her grandparents and is now broke.

"Kim" called in last week to "The Bert Show" to seek advice from the hosts at the Atlanta-based radio talk show.  Now a junior in college, Kim confessed she doesn't have any money left to pay the upcoming bills for her senior year.

Years ago my grandparents set up a college fund for me, which was amazing, and I haven't been very good with my budget for school. The first payment for my senior year just arrived and I don't have the money basically. I've just been avoiding it. I knew the bill was coming.

First, as a parent, I wondered if Kim had ever been taught the value of a dollar and just how hard $90K is to earn.  Was she taught budgeting and personal responsibility?  As I listened to the interview in full, I got my answers.

Maybe [my parents] should have taught me to budget or something. They never sat me down and had a real serious talk about it.

While I agree in part with Kim here — her parents should have taught her how to budget — she's an adult now. The money was likely in some sort of trust given to her at 18, the age you're deemed an adult. It's her responsibility now to make wise choices with the funds she was given.  She knew how much she had and how much her school was going to cost, and she admits she knew the bill was coming.  But Kim continues to blame her parents for not stopping her from making bad choices and also insinuates that her parents should take money out of their retirement accounts to bail poor Kim out:

[My parents] said there was nothing they could do for me. They're not being honest with me saying they don't have [money] because my dad has worked for like a million years and they have a retirement account.

Entitled much, Kim? That quote infuriated me and I actually had to listen to it again to make sure I heard her correctly, and unfortunately, I did.  As a mom, I would be incredibly disappointed to find out my kids thought they were owed what someone else earns. Heartbroken actually.

It doesn't matter if her parents have money or not.  It's not hers; it's theirs and they earned it for THEIR retirement, not for her trips to Europe or "college break expenses."
More~

http://pjmedia.com/parenting/2015/07/21/she-blew-90k-her-grandparents-gave-her-for-college-and-then-blamed-her-parents/2/

I could only wish someone left me that kind of dough to go to school. I had to pay for it out of my own damned pocket. Well that and put my ass on the line for America.