Conservative Political Forum

General Category => Financial => Topic started by: ConservativeInCT on September 22, 2018, 08:23:16 AM

Title: Breaking The Cycle Of Poverty
Post by: ConservativeInCT on September 22, 2018, 08:23:16 AM
I was talking to a friend of mine last night about the cycle of poverty. This friend of mine, who bounces back and forth between far left and moderate in his viewpoints, was trying to explain to me how the cycle of poverty works citing a cycle of crime and poor job opportunities as the reason why. He explained to me that the reason people continue to stay in abject poverty is that they do not have the resources to get out of it. He then ensued to explain to me how because I am a white male from a middle-class family that I come nowhere close to understanding these struggles. While I do agree that I can not relate on a personal level to being in abject poverty, every solution I put forth to try and engage him on how to fix the solution was never good enough. I said we should start with bettering education, building job skills in these areas as well as ending the cycle of welfare, thus putting forth an incentive to learn a skill and make more money to remove themselves from abject poverty. Are there any other ways in which we can end this cycle?
Title: Re: Breaking The Cycle Of Poverty
Post by: supsalemgr on September 22, 2018, 08:36:52 AM
I was talking to a friend of mine last night about the cycle of poverty. This friend of mine, who bounces back and forth between far left and moderate in his viewpoints, was trying to explain to me how the cycle of poverty works citing a cycle of crime and poor job opportunities as the reason why. He explained to me that the reason people continue to stay in abject poverty is that they do not have the resources to get out of it. He then ensued to explain to me how because I am a white male from a middle-class family that I come nowhere close to understanding these struggles. While I do agree that I can not relate on a personal level to being in abject poverty, every solution I put forth to try and engage him on how to fix the solution was never good enough. I said we should start with bettering education, building job skills in these areas as well as ending the cycle of welfare, thus putting forth an incentive to learn a skill and make more money to remove themselves from abject poverty. Are there any other ways in which we can end this cycle?

"WE" cannot break the cycle. It is up to the folks in the cycle to break their cycles individually. I don't buy the notion they cannot break it because they were born into it. This country offers many opportunities to everyone. I have known many folks who have broken the cycle. One in particular is an agent I had the pleasure of working with in MS. He showed me a picture of him and his daddy when he was a kid. His dad was a sharecropper. This particular individual became the best agent for the company on the state. That is breaking the cycle. There is no one silver bullet as it comes down to this nasty phrase - personal responsibility.
Title: Re: Breaking The Cycle Of Poverty
Post by: Sick Of Silence on September 22, 2018, 09:09:34 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0muVdy70RdM
Title: Re: Breaking The Cycle Of Poverty
Post by: Sick Of Silence on September 22, 2018, 09:45:09 AM
I was talking to a friend of mine last night about the cycle of poverty. This friend of mine, who bounces back and forth between far left and moderate in his viewpoints, was trying to explain to me how the cycle of poverty works citing a cycle of crime and poor job opportunities as the reason why. He explained to me that the reason people continue to stay in abject poverty is that they do not have the resources to get out of it. He then ensued to explain to me how because I am a white male from a middle-class family that I come nowhere close to understanding these struggles. While I do agree that I can not relate on a personal level to being in abject poverty, every solution I put forth to try and engage him on how to fix the solution was never good enough. I said we should start with bettering education, building job skills in these areas as well as ending the cycle of welfare, thus putting forth an incentive to learn a skill and make more money to remove themselves from abject poverty. Are there any other ways in which we can end this cycle?

Sounds like a full Lib-tard to me. What is he? Is he one of those white Liberals who claims he knows about a subject you are not allowed to talk about even though you both are white?

What does skin color got to do with poverty? Aren't there dirt poor white people? Aren't there more poor whites then there are poor blacks?

Tell them you are not poor because you follow that advice.
Title: Re: Breaking The Cycle Of Poverty
Post by: walkstall on September 22, 2018, 09:47:11 AM
Most people just need to move, job are not always where they live. 

Look at the Mexicans, they go looking for work.  Not sit home until work comes to them.



Title: Re: Breaking The Cycle Of Poverty
Post by: T Hunt on September 22, 2018, 10:03:16 AM
I was talking to a friend of mine last night about the cycle of poverty. This friend of mine, who bounces back and forth between far left and moderate in his viewpoints, was trying to explain to me how the cycle of poverty works citing a cycle of crime and poor job opportunities as the reason why. He explained to me that the reason people continue to stay in abject poverty is that they do not have the resources to get out of it. He then ensued to explain to me how because I am a white male from a middle-class family that I come nowhere close to understanding these struggles. While I do agree that I can not relate on a personal level to being in abject poverty, every solution I put forth to try and engage him on how to fix the solution was never good enough. I said we should start with bettering education, building job skills in these areas as well as ending the cycle of welfare, thus putting forth an incentive to learn a skill and make more money to remove themselves from abject poverty. Are there any other ways in which we can end this cycle?

Like super said, it starts and ends with personal responsibility, morality, family values, religion, that sorta thing.

But if u are asking what gvt can do to help, well there is nothing they can do. As in they should be doing nothing. It is gvt interferance which causes much of the poverty problem. It will never go away cuz there will always be some lazy ppl, but gvt really exacerbates the problem. Alot of the poverty in america is concentrated in liberal shithole cities or liberal shithole states where gvt has over intruded.

As far as the gvt is concerned, Here are some ideas...

1) Get rid of the dept of education. Make education local again and let it compete with the private sector schools with vouchers. Things like gender segresgation and school uniforms are good ideas too, these kids need discipline.

2) Take a bite out of crime. That starts with the people. Many liberal poverty holes restrict guns so the answer to crime is more guns in the hands of more law abiding people, even in the cities. Empowering the good guys goes along way.
Also deliberalize the police. They have their hands tied by lib politicians as well as their hand full with a bunch of liberal bullshit they have to deal with.

3) Get the gvt out of the economy and let the invisible hand of the free market work its magic. Big cities tend to have high taxes and lots of regulation. Add that to a lib president and congress screwing things up nationally for the last 50 years and thats why there are no economic opportunities. Follow trumps economic plan and that wont be an issue anymore.

4) Reform welfare. Simply put, right now it is designed to encourage laziness and dependence ( to secure lib voters). Revamp it to instead encourage hard wark and getting off of the system instead of staying on. That wld also save the gvt alot of money which is otherwise wasted. Simple things like work requirements and drug testing wld go along way. As well as incentives for families which stay together as opposed to incentivising single mothers.
Also work with private charities like churches. They usually get much better bang for their buck than the gvt does.

These are just some ideas to start with. Im sure im missing some things but these wld go along way.
Title: Re: Breaking The Cycle Of Poverty
Post by: Sick Of Silence on September 22, 2018, 10:06:02 AM
Most people just need to move, job are not always where they live. 

Look at the Mexicans, they go looking for work.  Not sit home until work comes to them.

To be fair, some of them are illegally taking work, being offered illegal work, and being catered to at the same time.
Title: Re: Breaking The Cycle Of Poverty
Post by: walkstall on September 22, 2018, 10:12:28 AM
To be fair, some of them are illegally taking work, being offered illegal work, and being catered to at the same time.

Life is not fair.  Every week I go into town and see job opening.  Illegals is a government problem and can be fixed if they follow the laws on the book. 
Title: Re: Breaking The Cycle Of Poverty
Post by: Sick Of Silence on September 22, 2018, 10:13:23 AM
Like super said, it starts and ends with personal responsibility, morality, family values, religion, that sorta thing.

But if u are asking what gvt can do to help, well there is nothing they can do. As in they should be doing nothing. It is gvt interferance which causes much of the poverty problem. It will never go away cuz there will always be some lazy ppl, but gvt really exacerbates the problem. Alot of the poverty in america is concentrated in liberal shithole cities or liberal shithole states where gvt has over intruded.

As far as the gvt is concerned, Here are some ideas...

1) Get rid of the dept of education. Make education local again and let it compete with the private sector schools with vouchers. Things like gender segresgation and school uniforms are good ideas too, these kids need discipline.

2) Take a bite out of crime. That starts with the people. Many liberal poverty holes restrict guns so the answer to crime is more guns in the hands of more law abiding people, even in the cities. Empowering the good guys goes along way.
Also deliberalize the police. They have their hands tied by lib politicians as well as their hand full with a bunch of liberal bullshit they have to deal with.

3) Get the gvt out of the economy and let the invisible hand of the free market work its magic. Big cities tend to have high taxes and lots of regulation. Add that to a lib president and congress screwing things up nationally for the last 50 years and thats why there are no economic opportunities. Follow trumps economic plan and that wont be an issue anymore.

4) Reform welfare. Simply put, right now it is designed to encourage laziness and dependence ( to secure lib voters). Revamp it to instead encourage hard wark and getting off of the system instead of staying on. That wld also save the gvt alot of money which is otherwise wasted. Simple things like work requirements and drug testing wld go along way. As well as incentives for families which stay together as opposed to incentivising single mothers.
Also work with private charities like churches. They usually get much better bang for their buck than the gvt does.

These are just some ideas to start with. Im sure im missing some things but these wld go along way.

Morality is important. Religion not so much. Morality is morality, and religion could be a step to attain it. But, everything starts at home.
Title: Re: Breaking The Cycle Of Poverty
Post by: Sick Of Silence on September 22, 2018, 10:15:40 AM
Life is not fair.  Every week I go into town and see job opening.  Illegals is a government problem and can be fixed if they follow the laws on the book.

Hence, why I said they are being catered to.
Title: Re: Breaking The Cycle Of Poverty
Post by: tac on September 22, 2018, 10:20:15 AM
Like super said, it starts and ends with personal responsibility, morality, family values, religion, that sorta thing.

But if u are asking what gvt can do to help, well there is nothing they can do. As in they should be doing nothing. It is gvt interferance which causes much of the poverty problem. It will never go away cuz there will always be some lazy ppl, but gvt really exacerbates the problem. Alot of the poverty in america is concentrated in liberal shithole cities or liberal shithole states where gvt has over intruded.

As far as the gvt is concerned, Here are some ideas...

1) Get rid of the dept of education. Make education local again and let it compete with the private sector schools with vouchers. Things like gender segresgation and school uniforms are good ideas too, these kids need discipline.

2) Take a bite out of crime. That starts with the people. Many liberal poverty holes restrict guns so the answer to crime is more guns in the hands of more law abiding people, even in the cities. Empowering the good guys goes along way.
Also deliberalize the police. They have their hands tied by lib politicians as well as their hand full with a bunch of liberal bullshit they have to deal with.

3) Get the gvt out of the economy and let the invisible hand of the free market work its magic. Big cities tend to have high taxes and lots of regulation. Add that to a lib president and congress screwing things up nationally for the last 50 years and thats why there are no economic opportunities. Follow trumps economic plan and that wont be an issue anymore.

4) Reform welfare. Simply put, right now it is designed to encourage laziness and dependence ( to secure lib voters). Revamp it to instead encourage hard wark and getting off of the system instead of staying on. That wld also save the gvt alot of money which is otherwise wasted. Simple things like work requirements and drug testing wld go along way. As well as incentives for families which stay together as opposed to incentivising single mothers.
Also work with private charities like churches. They usually get much better bang for their buck than the gvt does.

These are just some ideas to start with. Im sure im missing some things but these wld go along way.
Good analysis!  :thumbup:

Government is NOT the solution, it's the problem. Politicians want voters dependent on the government to 'help' them, it builds dependency on the political party to keep them fed.
Title: Re: Breaking The Cycle Of Poverty
Post by: ConservativeInCT on September 22, 2018, 10:40:33 AM
Sounds like a full Lib-tard to me. What is he? Is he one of those white Liberals who claims he knows about a subject you are not allowed to talk about even though you both are white?

What does skin color got to do with poverty? Aren't there dirt poor white people? Aren't there more poor whites then there are poor blacks?

Tell them you are not poor because you follow that advice.

My friend is a white male aged twenty-four who surprisingly enough came from a middle-class family. He does also claim that because of my socioeconomic background it is not my place to discuss it. I was out of work for a while but I have found work now and I do save up so I will have money if on the off chance I do end up losing my job, as well as some slight assistance from my parents since I am still in school. My main argument to him was that there are poor people of all races and genders and to say that a race is to blame for some people being in abject poverty is something I can not get behind.
Title: Re: Breaking The Cycle Of Poverty
Post by: ConservativeInCT on September 22, 2018, 10:43:24 AM
Like super said, it starts and ends with personal responsibility, morality, family values, religion, that sorta thing.

But if u are asking what gvt can do to help, well there is nothing they can do. As in they should be doing nothing. It is gvt interferance which causes much of the poverty problem. It will never go away cuz there will always be some lazy ppl, but gvt really exacerbates the problem. Alot of the poverty in america is concentrated in liberal shithole cities or liberal shithole states where gvt has over intruded.

As far as the gvt is concerned, Here are some ideas...

1) Get rid of the dept of education. Make education local again and let it compete with the private sector schools with vouchers. Things like gender segresgation and school uniforms are good ideas too, these kids need discipline.

2) Take a bite out of crime. That starts with the people. Many liberal poverty holes restrict guns so the answer to crime is more guns in the hands of more law abiding people, even in the cities. Empowering the good guys goes along way.
Also deliberalize the police. They have their hands tied by lib politicians as well as their hand full with a bunch of liberal bullshit they have to deal with.

3) Get the gvt out of the economy and let the invisible hand of the free market work its magic. Big cities tend to have high taxes and lots of regulation. Add that to a lib president and congress screwing things up nationally for the last 50 years and thats why there are no economic opportunities. Follow trumps economic plan and that wont be an issue anymore.

4) Reform welfare. Simply put, right now it is designed to encourage laziness and dependence ( to secure lib voters). Revamp it to instead encourage hard wark and getting off of the system instead of staying on. That wld also save the gvt alot of money which is otherwise wasted. Simple things like work requirements and drug testing wld go along way. As well as incentives for families which stay together as opposed to incentivising single mothers.
Also work with private charities like churches. They usually get much better bang for their buck than the gvt does.

These are just some ideas to start with. Im sure im missing some things but these wld go along way.

All of these arguments are very good. I have been trying to push these on people I know for a long time but they are insistent that government assistance is the only way. I've never believed this because of my father, who told me that welfare services provide a less incentive to work, and how instead of more welfare we should, as you say, use it to encourage hard work and build job skills so that people can get out of school and find work.
Title: Re: Breaking The Cycle Of Poverty
Post by: supsalemgr on September 22, 2018, 10:57:56 AM
All of these arguments are very good. I have been trying to push these on people I know for a long time but they are insistent that government assistance is the only way. I've never believed this because of my father, who told me that welfare services provide a less incentive to work, and how instead of more welfare we should, as you say, use it to encourage hard work and build job skills so that people can get out of school and find work.

You are not going change those that feel government is the answer. The only way they will change is if they get hit with a 2"x4" in their own life experiences. I have learned I am a lot happier just ignoring libs who are lost in their own fantasy world.
Title: Re: Breaking The Cycle Of Poverty
Post by: Sick Of Silence on September 22, 2018, 10:58:45 AM
Sounds like a full Lib-tard to me. What is he? Is he one of those white Liberals who claims he knows about a subject you are not allowed to talk about even though you both are white?

What does skin color got to do with poverty? Aren't there dirt poor white people? Aren't there more poor whites then there are poor blacks?

Tell them you are not poor because you follow that advice.

My friend is a white male aged twenty-four who surprisingly enough came from a middle-class family. He does also claim that because of my socioeconomic background it is not my place to discuss it. I was out of work for a while but I have found work now and I do save up so I will have money if on the off chance I do end up losing my job, as well as some slight assistance from my parents since I am still in school. My main argument to him was that there are poor people of all races and genders and to say that a race is to blame for some people being in abject poverty is something I can not get behind.

There you go.
Title: Re: Breaking The Cycle Of Poverty
Post by: walkstall on September 22, 2018, 11:21:48 AM

You are not going change those that feel government is the answer. The only way they will change is if they get hit with a 2"x4" in their own life experiences. I have learned I am a lot happier just ignoring libs who are lost in their own fantasy world.


 :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Breaking The Cycle Of Poverty
Post by: midcan5 on October 02, 2018, 12:23:30 PM
America's golden years according to historians was from FDR to Reagan, we were the leading industrial nation then and we were rebuilding America after the war.  That has changed radically, you only have to check where everything you own is made and look around on a highway drive too. What was different then?  One thing I can tell you from my own experience was corporations cared for their employees and unions fought for the working class, and taxes on the wealthy ranged from 70 to 90% as they benefited most from our system of government and economic polices. Today when I drive the back roads of America I see closed businesses and shuttered stores. My grandparents and parents walked to work in steel and clothing manufacturer. The city and the rural areas died with globalism and outsourcing and the bottom line mentality. Anyone here experience downsizing or right sizing? 

Enter today's gig economy and baby boomer world of finance and global markets. Who here makes an effort to support American products? Trump talks a good story but his own products were made off shore, and his bankruptcies in AC did not help jobs. Automation too has a had a great impact. Personally I think it may come down to UBI due to the lack of work that pays enough to live well.

"President Eisenhower describes his administration's political philosophy as 'dynamic conservatism,' then as 'progressive, dynamic conservatism,' then as 'progressive moderation,' then as 'moderate progressivism,' and then as 'positive progressivism.'"  William Manchester, quote from 'The Glory and the Dream'



Title: Re: Breaking The Cycle Of Poverty
Post by: supsalemgr on October 02, 2018, 12:45:35 PM
America's golden years according to historians was from FDR to Reagan, we were the leading industrial nation then and we were rebuilding America after the war.  That has changed radically, you only have to check where everything you own is made and look around on a highway drive too. What was different then?  One thing I can tell you from my own experience was corporations cared for their employees and unions fought for the working class, and taxes on the wealthy ranged from 70 to 90% as they benefited most from our system of government and economic polices. Today when I drive the back roads of America I see closed businesses and shuttered stores. My grandparents and parents walked to work in steel and clothing manufacturer. The city and the rural areas died with globalism and outsourcing and the bottom line mentality. Anyone here experience downsizing or right sizing? 

Enter today's gig economy and baby boomer world of finance and global markets. Who here makes an effort to support American products? Trump talks a good story but his own products were made off shore, and his bankruptcies in AC did not help jobs. Automation too has a had a great impact. Personally I think it may come down to UBI due to the lack of work that pays enough to live well.

"President Eisenhower describes his administration's political philosophy as 'dynamic conservatism,' then as 'progressive, dynamic conservatism,' then as 'progressive moderation,' then as 'moderate progressivism,' and then as 'positive progressivism.'"  William Manchester, quote from 'The Glory and the Dream'

All of what you say is true - IF - the world had not progressed. The world changed after WW II. The USA helped to rebuild our adversaries and they embraced capitalism. It took awhile, but communism failed miserably and technology exploded which converted national economies into a world economy. Also, our consumer habits changed. Remember when Sears was "where America shops"? Then some guy who owned a hardware store in Bentonville, AR showed up. Think about this if one goes back to fifties. There is only one industry the top two companies are still 1 and 2 now in their industry. That industry is personal lines insurance where State Farm and Allstate were 1 and 2 in 1950 and still hold those positions. I know that only because I worked in that industry for 47 years. My point is things change and staying the same is not an option, adapting to the new environment is required.