Quote from: Solar on August 28, 2012, 06:37:45 AM
Yes, he even had the backing of the UN, but with the amazing ability of hindsight, if we were going there and nothing was going to stop us, then you go all the way.
This war turned into a freackin PC mess then we gave billions to rebuild a desert.

Nope, knowing what we know now, should have left the animals to their own demise.

Yeah, hindsight's always 20/20. I think we could have used our intelligence gathering capabilities, found the terrorists and their training camps, and used sustained, targeted airstrikes to take care of most of them. At this point, I think everyone's sick of it.

Quote from: kramarat on August 28, 2012, 06:44:18 AM
Yeah, hindsight's always 20/20. I think we could have used our intelligence gathering capabilities, found the terrorists and their training camps, and used sustained, targeted airstrikes to take care of most of them. At this point, I think everyone's sick of it.

Actually the CIA and special ops had Afghanistan all but secure, till the administration jumped the gun and sent in the Marines, which eventually lead to the killing our only real ally, at which point it was downhill from there.

Quote from: Solar on August 28, 2012, 07:11:01 AM
Actually the CIA and special ops had Afghanistan all but secure, till the administration jumped the gun and sent in the Marines, which eventually lead to the killing our only real ally, at which point it was downhill from there.

What started out as bad, is steadily getting worse. Egypt is destabilized. Syria is coming apart. Libya has become destabilized. Turkey is moving back toward Sharia law. Iraq is anything but stabile. Iran is run by a crazy man...............................................

The entire middle east is a powder keg.

Quote from: kramarat on August 28, 2012, 07:26:17 AM
What started out as bad, is steadily getting worse. Egypt is destabilized. Syria is coming apart. Libya has become destabilized. Turkey is moving back toward Sharia law. Iraq is anything but stabile. Iran is run by a crazy man...............................................

The entire middle east is a powder keg.

Yep, all the more reason to get the Hell out and let them bleed each other dry.
In all honesty, there is really nothing there for us, we have all the energy we need right here at home.

If it were up to me, I'd invade the entire M/E, level it and run it like a dictatorship, that's all these 7th century animals understand, they only respect you at the point of a sword.

But since I'm not in command, I'd rather we just pack up and leave.

Quote from: Solar on August 28, 2012, 02:38:54 PM
Yep, all the more reason to get the Hell out and let them bleed each other dry.
In all honesty, there is really nothing there for us, we have all the energy we need right here at home.

If it were up to me, I'd invade the entire M/E, level it and run it like a dictatorship, that's all these 7th century animals understand, they only respect you at the point of a sword.

But since I'm not in command, I'd rather we just pack up and leave.

That would work for me.................with one caveat. If any one of them attacks Israel, we bomb the shit out of them. No protracted war..........................just lots of missile strikes.

Quote from: kramarat on August 28, 2012, 04:32:17 AM
We had to fight them somewhere. Ignoring them was never going to work.

I think we fought them in Afghanistan. This and improved western intelligence would have probably been enough, in hindsight.
It pissed me off a bit that our German politicians were right about attacking Iraq being BS back then. Because in 2002/2003 even I thought it was right what America is doing.
(youtube.com/watch?v=_k_QbpFl7RM)

Quote from: Foreigner on August 25, 2012, 11:19:35 AM
What did Obama spend all that money on trying to create demand?

When it comes to tax cuts, I'm not so sure that it's that easy. If high taxes and regulations were that bad, why is Germany doing alright then? After all we have much higher taxes and much more regulations than what you think is "high".

All I know is that your wealth distribution is out of control. This wouldn't be a problem, if the top 20% spent or invested most of their money. But I doubt they do. So you have lots of people who can't afford buying stuff, and what they can afford is mostly cheap stuff from Chinese factories. On the other hand there are rich people with tons of money in the bank, where it doesn't really do anything.

Now if you think "taxing the rich" is bad, maybe you should think of another way that motivates the rich to put their spare Billions into society. Give 'em medals according to how much money they invested in the success of America, have 'em drive in car pool lanes alone, let their paper work have higher priority with the bureaucrats... whatever privilege you want.

When I was at Six Flags in 2010, I bought a Flash Pass. Why not do the same on a larger scale?

Holy shit. What planet did you just come in from? You need to be in North Carolina next week at the Democrats' national convention. They'll be looking for folks just exactly like you.

Quote from: tbone0106 on August 29, 2012, 01:25:10 PM
Holy shit. What planet did you just come in from? You need to be in North Carolina next week at the Democrats' national convention. They'll be looking for folks just exactly like you.

Planet Germany, where things are working far better than in most places in America.

What place are you from? Where's your example to prove that your ideas work? All I can see is my favorite country, in my opinion also the greatest experiment in the history of mankind, falling apart and going down the drain. And all I see you guys doing about it is telling each other that you know better and the government, the Democrats or Obama being the only problem America has.

I think that's disappointing. Maybe you're just an older generation here on the forum, I don't know.

What I do know, though, is young Americans being in a lot of debt and your experts wondering why they're not buying houses and cars like older generations (you?) once did. The same experts who are very understanding about the very richest Americans not investing their money. That's very strange, and if American conservatives keep ignoring it, your future in politics may be at stake too.

Trust me, that's not what I want for America. Because I believe that a healthy balance between conservative and progressive forces is an essential factor of what used to make America great.

Foreigner, let me just start by saying I am not that far, in age at least, from the young people you speak of.  The financial issues facing the 18-35 year olds today are due in large part to schools, and the entertainment industry that a lot of us listened to more than our parents because it was cool.  We were taught that having things was more important than actually earning them.  Credit cards were a wonderful way to get what you want, and get it now.  The government offered many first-time home buyer programs.  My husband and I only had to come up with $1000 for the down payment on our first house.  No closing costs, reduced interest, they had to give us a loan, even though we had NO credit history st all, because we qualified for the government's wonderful give housing loans to everybody idea.  We were not smart or savvy enough as twenty-somethings to realize what we were doing.  Most of my generation have similar stories. 
Hubby and I figured out our mistake, and made a drastic financial change.  Government has yet to figure that out.  You don't balance your budget by taking from your boss.  You balance your budget by learning to say no and cutting out what you don't need, or by finding additional work.

Yes, I know that there are young people who don't act responsible when it comes to money. But what about the people who try to get them to act irresponsible like that, be it pushed by the government or not?

And what about the many young people who are in fact responsible about their money, but don't have parents to pay for their education? I have a friend in AZ who has to pay for his education on his own, and by German standards it's just insane what he's going through.

You should be ashamed to protect the very wealthiest people while young Americans are struggling like that. You spend more money on putting people behind bars and on wars than investing it in your own children, their education, or in people's health. What the f*ck happened to your family values, what the f*ck happened to Christianity?

If you seriously believe the good people who founded America would support this BS you're promoting, you guys are out of your minds. You lost your ways and you don't even know it.

Honest hard working blue collar Americans will keep on losing their jobs, because you keep ignoring the rest of the world and generation Y won't be able to afford buying those blue collar workers' cars and houses.

Congratulations.

I can assure you Christianity is alive and well in the US, but Christianity and taxation are two wholly separate topics.

Their are three reasons I am opposed to higher taxes on the wealthy

1) The wealthy already pay for roughly %57 of the population who pay nothing.  So, if you open up the market and allow business to grow, you will have a higher percentage of people paying in, by virtue of the fact that they will be making enough to pay in.

2) The more the government taxes, the less a company can provide jobs.  Taxation must happen, but at a reasonable level.  In a job creating economy, you even have businesses who pay for the education of young hopefulls.  Open the economy, people win.

3) Wealthy people buy things, LOTS of things, they stimulate the economy just through large purchases.  If one wealthy guy buys a vacation home, custom build.  How many people does he pay wages to, just on that purchase?  A lot, the same money given to government, gets waisted.

Does America need to go after more trade agreements?  Darn straight we do, our current leader has been so busy telling everyone how mediocre we are that building up trade agreements would have looked stupid.  Forging new agreements means new buyers for our products, more need.

I am not really sure what you are getting at with college, I had very little help from my parents as far as paying for my education.  Those wealthy people you want to tax so heavily, well, a lot of them offer these great things called scholarships, it involves logging off of facebook, turning off MTV, and actually taking the time to fill out applications.  It is work, and time consuming, so most people never do it.  The government does not owe you a college degree, and plenty of people get through college with little to no debt and without the help of mom and dad, or Uncle Sam.

Quote from: Foreigner on August 30, 2012, 10:22:44 PM
Yes, I know that there are young people who don't act responsible when it comes to money. But what about the people who try to get them to act irresponsible like that, be it pushed by the government or not?

And what about the many young people who are in fact responsible about their money, but don't have parents to pay for their education? I have a friend in AZ who has to pay for his education on his own, and by German standards it's just insane what he's going through.

You should be ashamed to protect the very wealthiest people while young Americans are struggling like that. You spend more money on putting people behind bars and on wars than investing it in your own children, their education, or in people's health. What the f*ck happened to your family values, what the f*ck happened to Christianity?

If you seriously believe the good people who founded America would support this BS you're promoting, you guys are out of your minds. You lost your ways and you don't even know it.

Honest hard working blue collar Americans will keep on losing their jobs, because you keep ignoring the rest of the world and generation Y won't be able to afford buying those blue collar workers' cars and houses.

Congratulations.

And just how long do you think that Germany is going to be able to provide all these free things to the German people, while simultaneously bailing out the rest of Europe?

I'd also suggest that you watch your tone. As you sit here and deride America, my tax dollars are going toward a missile defense shield over Europe.

I'll agree with one thing. Our money would be much better spent inside the US. It's time we leave Europe to fend for themselves.