Author Topic: 9/11 "Conspiracies"  (Read 8395 times)

Offline Solar

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Re: 9/11 "Conspiracies"
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2011, 08:41:47 AM »
First, Osama wanted to hit just one tower if memory serves me correctly, hoping it would cripple the other beyond repair.
But the fact that a 2nd tower was hit may be more due to an inexperienced pilot.

And at that altitude, it is unlikely that ground effect was an effect, but like I said, thermals would be more likely Seeing how they were well above ground effect.

You do realize to the casual observer you are looking pretty silly here, right?
Lets just stop here before too much damage is done. ;)
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Offline taxed

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Re: 9/11 "Conspiracies"
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2011, 12:57:22 PM »
This is interesting...

Offline taxed

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Re: 9/11 "Conspiracies"
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2011, 01:15:22 PM »


I'm OK with the Flight 77 terrorists getting lucky. Overflying the Pentagon was an indication that they'd already missed their target once so were cranking the aircraft around for another try. A try the terrorist-pilot would've known, even with his very limited flight experience, had a pretty poor chance of working.

Also, since all, modern commercial aircraft use electronic flight control augmentation I'm not sure that control inputs don't vary with speed/altitude in order to minimize pilot workload and likelihood of over-controlling, or under-controlling, during critical phases of flight. I might be wrong, pilots being a pretty conservative lot, but the option of maintaining positive control with consist control movements regardless of flight speed would be pretty attractive to someone whose in a position to be very concerned about pleasant outcomes.


That scares me that it is pretty easy to fly into that airspace and hit the Pentagon!

Offline Eyesabide

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Re: 9/11 "Conspiracies"
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2011, 06:26:09 PM »
Which theory are we discussing? It seemed we just jumped into the possibility the aircraft used in the attacks were not flown by inexperienced pilots.
Is it being theorized the aircraft were remotely flown? 
As far as thermals, ground effect, mechanical turbulence, inversion layers, and other outside factors go, if I were flying an airplane into a building I might flinch and pull the nose up a bit while instinctively bracing for impact. For the same reason, I might panic and turn away from the horrific sight of the damage the first aircraft did to the building I also was supposed to hit. I have not double checked yet, but I might have seen that the second aircraft hit the tower at an unusual attitude for an aircraft supposedly aiming for the second tower. He might have hit the second tower by accident.
 This is speculation, of course, I have done no research.  I do not even have a hypothesis yet. So, Which theory are we discussing?
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Offline Shanghai Dan

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Re: 9/11 "Conspiracies"
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2011, 06:59:32 PM »
2) as he loses altitude, the aircraft will be gaining speed, as it gains speed, the controls will become increasingly "sensitive".
Funny, nearly every real airplane I've flown on (and that's probably 35-40 a year) have this amazing ability to actually SLOW DOWN as they lose altitude.  It's kind of a standard procedure when landing a plane...
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Offline Eyesabide

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Re: 9/11 "Conspiracies"
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2011, 07:25:17 PM »
I think pilots use angle of attack and flaps to slow down, and possibly reduce thrust. Just thinking.
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Offline Shanghai Dan

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Re: 9/11 "Conspiracies"
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2011, 07:48:44 PM »
I think pilots use angle of attack and flaps to slow down, and possibly reduce thrust. Just thinking.
Nah, can't possibly be done - we've been told that losing altitude always comes with higher speed.  No way you could lose altitude and slow down.  Never mind it's done thousands of times a day...

Here's a great video showing what's possible - not a jet aircraft, but impressive!

« Last Edit: September 04, 2011, 07:54:42 PM by Shanghai Dan »
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Offline BILLY Defiant

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Re: 9/11 "Conspiracies"
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2011, 10:33:43 PM »
.

Do you want me to believe that 3 out of 4 aircraft, hijacked by radicals and flown by inexperienced pilots were somehow able to, not only evade the air defenses of one of the most heavily traveled and tightly controlled air spaces - in the World - but were able to carry out successful attacks against, in the case of the Pentagon, one of the most heavily guarded buildings in the world?

-Dr Watt



 
Yes, because that is what happened, I hi lighted the part about best guarded buildings in the world and while you may be right you are over looking something. Their security system was geared towards to things, prevention of electronic surveillance and ....prevention of as ground attack, bombing, truck bombing, ditrect weapons fire, suicide squad...it was NOT geared to prevent an AIR ATTACK...that is the weak link the terrorists uncovered thru years of intelligence gathering.
 
Remember, the stage for 9/11 attacks was set and uncovered in Manila in 1995...that is when we were TOLD, presented EVIDENCE that an air attack using a hijacked commercial jet liner flown into a tall building was being planned, specifically mentioned was the US Embassy in Manila and the sears tower in Chicago.
 
I bow to your knowledge of aircraft, but bow to my expertise in my profession...security/intelligence gathering.
 
 
Billy
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Offline Dr_Watt

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Re: 9/11 "Conspiracies"
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2011, 05:20:47 PM »
First, Osama wanted to hit just one tower if memory serves me correctly, hoping it would cripple the other beyond repair.
But the fact that a 2nd tower was hit may be more due to an inexperienced pilot.

Kind of supports my theory. Two inexperienced pilots, hitting two different targets in exactly the right way to caused catastrophic failure in both targets? Seems a tad incredible to me.

Quote
And at that altitude, it is unlikely that ground effect was an effect, but like I said, thermals would be more likely Seeing how they were well above ground effect.

I never said the Twin Tower aircraft were affected by ground effect, only Flight 77.

Quote
You do realize to the casual observer you are looking pretty silly here, right?
Lets just stop here before too much damage is done. ;)

What fun would that be? :))

-Dr Watt
If the Federal Government were put in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years they'd have a shortage of sand!
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Offline Dr_Watt

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Re: 9/11 "Conspiracies"
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2011, 05:32:07 PM »
Funny, nearly every real airplane I've flown on (and that's probably 35-40 a year) have this amazing ability to actually SLOW DOWN as they lose altitude.  It's kind of a standard procedure when landing a plane...

Yes, it is done by a competent pilot by reducing power while maintaining altitude until the desired airspeed is achieved and then lowering the nose ( at which point the aircraft starts to descend ) to maintain the desired airspeed. Flaps are further used to enable a steeper descent while maintaining a given airspeed.

For you non-pilots out there - point the nose down, you go faster, point the nose up, you slow down.  ::)

According to damage estimates at the Pentagon the estimated speed of Flight 77 when it hit the building was roughly 530 MPH.

-Dr Watt
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Offline Dr_Watt

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Re: 9/11 "Conspiracies"
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2011, 05:40:53 PM »

 
Yes, because that is what happened, I hi lighted the part about best guarded buildings in the world and while you may be right you are over looking something. Their security system was geared towards to things, prevention of electronic surveillance and ....prevention of as ground attack, bombing, truck bombing, ditrect weapons fire, suicide squad...it was NOT geared to prevent an AIR ATTACK...that is the weak link the terrorists uncovered thru years of intelligence gathering.
 
Remember, the stage for 9/11 attacks was set and uncovered in Manila in 1995...that is when we were TOLD, presented EVIDENCE that an air attack using a hijacked commercial jet liner flown into a tall building was being planned, specifically mentioned was the US Embassy in Manila and the sears tower in Chicago.
 
I bow to your knowledge of aircraft, but bow to my expertise in my profession...security/intelligence gathering.
 
 
Billy

All the more reason why (six years later) we were so unprepared for such an attack.

I don't doubt you or your expertise for a minute!

BTW you do know that the CIA had a "front" operation that worked out of the same hangar at the same airport where two of the hijackers received their flight training, don't you?

-Dr Watt

If the Federal Government were put in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years they'd have a shortage of sand!
-Milton Freedman

Offline Solar

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Re: 9/11 "Conspiracies"
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2011, 05:40:59 PM »
Kind of supports my theory. Two inexperienced pilots, hitting two different targets in exactly the right way to caused catastrophic failure in both targets? Seems a tad incredible to me.
Who says it was exactly the right spot, they could have hit anywhere in the building resulting in wide spread fire.
Quote
I never said the Twin Tower aircraft were affected by ground effect, only Flight 77.
Ahh OK, but if you look at trajectory, there wasn't really anytime for ground effect to be of issue.
Quote
What fun would that be? :))

-Dr Watt
Good point. :))
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Offline BILLY Defiant

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Re: 9/11 "Conspiracies"
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2011, 05:57:48 PM »
All the more reason why (six years later) we were so unprepared for such an attack.

I don't doubt you or your expertise for a minute!

BTW you do know that the CIA had a "front" operation that worked out of the same hangar at the same airport where two of the hijackers received their flight training, don't you?

-Dr Watt



 
That "front" operation was involved in Iran/ Contra-Nicaragua...according to one of the former pilots I know involved in that.... ;)
 
 
Billy
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Offline Dr_Watt

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Re: 9/11 "Conspiracies"
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2011, 06:00:17 PM »

 
That "front" operation was involved in Iran/ Contra-Nicaragua...according to one of the former pilots I know involved in that.... ;)
 
 
Billy

Iran/Contra was still going on in the late 90s? ???

-Dr Watt
If the Federal Government were put in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years they'd have a shortage of sand!
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Offline Dr_Watt

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Re: 9/11 "Conspiracies"
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2011, 06:02:31 PM »

 
That "front" operation was involved in Iran/ Contra-Nicaragua...according to one of the former pilots I know involved in that.... ;)
 
 
Billy

We need to talk about Mena Arkansas sometime!  ;)

-Dr Watt
If the Federal Government were put in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years they'd have a shortage of sand!
-Milton Freedman

 

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