Conservative Political Forum

General Category => Library => Alternate Boards => 2016 Tea Party Candidate Vetting => Topic started by: Solar on May 31, 2016, 10:59:20 AM

Title: Gary Johnson: I Agree With 73% of What Bernie Sanders Says
Post by: Solar on May 31, 2016, 10:59:20 AM
Johnson is the reason for the failure of the party over his Leftist platform.
And people wonder why we cal them LIB-tarians..... :rolleyes:

Gov. Gary Johnson: LIB-ertarian, the LIB-ertarian Party candidate for president, said that he agrees with 73 percent of what Sen. Bernie Sanders (I., Vt.) says, citing that libertarians agree with socialism as long as it’s voluntary.

On Tuesday, a caller from Arkansas on CSPAN’s Washington Journal questioned Johnson about Sanders, saying that people she knows want Sanders to win the nomination. She suggested that Johnson and Sanders could sit down together.

This was after she called Johnson a Republican, and Johnson said he wanted to “draw a line of distinction” between being a Republican and being a Libertarian.

“I would really like to see him [Johnson] and William Weld stand behind Bernie Sanders, maybe sit down and talk to him and group together because there’s a whole lot of people out here that want Bernie Sanders to win the nomination and if he’s not in the nomination, I’m sure you’d take home the prize,” the caller from Arkansas said. “If you had all the ideas Bernie Sanders has and three-quarters of America have.”

William Weld, Johnson’s running mate, was governor of Massachusetts from 1991 to 1997.

Johnson then brought up the website ISideWith.com, on which the Libertarian Party has purchased ads to promote its petition to add Johnson to the presidential debate stage.

This website is a political quiz consisting of 60 questions that collectively determine which presidential candidate the person most aligns with. Johnson said that after siding 100 percent with himself, the next closest candidate he sides with is Sanders at 73 percent.

“But interestingly, of all the presidential candidates, I next side with Bernie Sanders at 73 percent,” he said.

He then justified these findings to the audience.
http://freebeacon.com/politics/johnson-agree-73-percent-sanders/
Title: Re: Gary Johnson: I Agree With 73% of What Bernie Sanders Says
Post by: tac on May 31, 2016, 11:19:05 AM
That doesn't say much for the party.  :thumbdown:
Title: Re: Gary Johnson: I Agree With 73% of What Bernie Sanders Says
Post by: jrodefeld on June 20, 2016, 12:15:46 AM
As I've made clear in previous posts, I am a libertarian so I thought I could comment on this post about Gary Johnson.  I MAY vote for Gary in November, I haven't decided.  I am not sure I will vote at all, but if I do vote I'll certainly vote for Gary because he is the closest to my views.

But he is not a very good libertarian, in my opinion.  I want you to understand that Gary's description of libertarianism as "fiscally conservative and socially liberal" is wrong.

Probably most libertarians ARE socially liberal, but that is not what libertarianism is.  Libertarianism is a belief that starts with individual self-ownership and the non-aggression principle.  You own your own life and should be free to act so long as that action doesn't use force against somebody else or their property.  To that end, libertarians either believe in a VERY limited State tasked with defending our basic human liberties and nothing else or, like me, they believe that all government functions can be effectively handled in the private market and we don't need a State at all.

Personal belief in certain social values doesn't enter in to any of this.  You can be very socially liberal or very socially conservative and be a perfect libertarian.  The key is that you don't support forcing your social values onto anyone else.

By stating that libertarians are "socially liberal", Gary is potentially turning off some disillusioned conservatives who might otherwise consider voting for him.

To be clear, I probably agree with Gary on all his personal social views, but I consider these views to be superfluous to libertarianism.  If very conservative people want to join the libertarian movement, I'd be happy to work with them to dismantle the State and fight against aggression regardless of what we might disagree on.

With that said, if you ARE planning on voting, then I'd certainly say that Gary Johnson is far better than Trump or Hillary and his personal social views that you might disagree without shouldn't turn you off of his attractive qualities that make him objectively better than the other choices.
Title: Re: Gary Johnson: I Agree With 73% of What Bernie Sanders Says
Post by: taxed on June 23, 2016, 07:01:24 AM
As I've made clear in previous posts, I am a libertarian so I thought I could comment on this post about Gary Johnson.
We have established before that you're a liberal.

Quote
  I MAY vote for Gary in November, I haven't decided.  I am not sure I will vote at all, but if I do vote I'll certainly vote for Gary because he is the closest to my views.
We know.

Quote
But he is not a very good libertarian, in my opinion.  I want you to understand that Gary's description of libertarianism as "fiscally conservative and socially liberal" is wrong.

Probably most libertarians ARE socially liberal, but that is not what libertarianism is.  Libertarianism is a belief that starts with individual self-ownership and the non-aggression principle.  You own your own life and should be free to act so long as that action doesn't use force against somebody else or their property.  To that end, libertarians either believe in a VERY limited State tasked with defending our basic human liberties and nothing else or, like me, they believe that all government functions can be effectively handled in the private market and we don't need a State at all.

Personal belief in certain social values doesn't enter in to any of this.  You can be very socially liberal or very socially conservative and be a perfect libertarian.  The key is that you don't support forcing your social values onto anyone else.

By stating that libertarians are "socially liberal", Gary is potentially turning off some disillusioned conservatives who might otherwise consider voting for him.

To be clear, I probably agree with Gary on all his personal social views, but I consider these views to be superfluous to libertarianism.  If very conservative people want to join the libertarian movement, I'd be happy to work with them to dismantle the State and fight against aggression regardless of what we might disagree on.

With that said, if you ARE planning on voting, then I'd certainly say that Gary Johnson is far better than Trump or Hillary and his personal social views that you might disagree without shouldn't turn you off of his attractive qualities that make him objectively better than the other choices.

Liberal is liberal.  This ain't that difficult.
Title: Re: Gary Johnson: I Agree With 73% of What Bernie Sanders Says
Post by: tac on June 23, 2016, 07:17:44 AM
How can anyone vote for a person that agrees with almost 75% of what the commie Bernie believes? And then call them self a conservative? :confused:
Title: Re: Gary Johnson: I Agree With 73% of What Bernie Sanders Says
Post by: Solar on June 23, 2016, 07:21:51 AM
How can anyone vote for a person that agrees with almost 75% of what the commie Bernie believes? And then call them self a conservative? :confused:
Because he's a Lib, though embarrassed to admit it, he's more Fabian socialist than anything.
Title: Re: Gary Johnson: I Agree With 73% of What Bernie Sanders Says
Post by: taxed on June 23, 2016, 09:28:08 AM
How can anyone vote for a person that agrees with almost 75% of what the commie Bernie believes? And then call them self a conservative? :confused:

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Gary Johnson: I Agree With 73% of What Bernie Sanders Says
Post by: jrodefeld on June 23, 2016, 09:33:02 AM
How can anyone vote for a person that agrees with almost 75% of what the commie Bernie believes? And then call them self a conservative? :confused:

First, Gary does not call himself a conservative.  He calls himself a libertarian.  And, to be perfectly frank, I may easily not vote for ANYONE because I am so thoroughly not impressed with Gary and Weld at this point.

And this "agree with Bernie 75% of the time" stuff is misleading.  He is referring to a website called "I side with" which gives you a bunch of questions and tells you which candidates you side with most closely.  But the methodology is flawed.  I took the test and it said that I sided with Bernie 68-70% of the time and I am the most radical free market laissez-faire Capitalist you've ever met.  I think the questions are weighted towards certain social views, personal liberties, and foreign policy so differences in economic policy are not counted as much.

Gary is trying to reach out to disaffected Bernie supporters, but that's exactly what Trump is doing as well.  Emphasizes some issues where libertarians would agree with Bernie Sanders doesn't mean we are Socialists, to state the obvious.  It is just an attempt to find common ground where we can and influence people towards our position.

Title: Re: Gary Johnson: I Agree With 73% of What Bernie Sanders Says
Post by: jrodefeld on June 23, 2016, 09:35:43 AM
We have established before that you're a liberal.
We know.

Liberal is liberal.  This ain't that difficult.

I guarantee you that I believe in a smaller government than you, I believe in private property rights more than you and I believe in the free market more than you.  Are these liberal positions?

The word your looking for is "libertarian".  I know you think of my foreign policy views as "liberal" but that doesn't make me a liberal.  Libertarians are neither left nor right, we are equally distant from each.
Title: Re: Gary Johnson: I Agree With 73% of What Bernie Sanders Says
Post by: taxed on June 23, 2016, 09:40:07 AM
I guarantee you that I believe in a smaller government than you, I believe in private property rights more than you and I believe in the free market more than you.
Wrong.

Quote
  Are these liberal positions?
Depends to the degree.

Quote
The word your looking for is "libertarian".  I know you think of my foreign policy views as "liberal" but that doesn't make me a liberal.  Libertarians are neither left nor right, we are equally distant from each.

You're a liberal.  You probably supported Gary Johnson in the past.  He's a liberal.  That makes you a liberal.  I could never vote for a liberal.  You can.  Therefore, you're a liberal, and I'm not.
Title: Re: Gary Johnson: I Agree With 73% of What Bernie Sanders Says
Post by: jrodefeld on June 23, 2016, 09:54:14 AM
Wrong.
Depends to the degree.

You're a liberal.  You probably supported Gary Johnson in the past.  He's a liberal.  That makes you a liberal.  I could never vote for a liberal.  You can.  Therefore, you're a liberal, and I'm not.

Do you consider Ron Paul to be a liberal?  I voted for him in 2008 and in 2012 and I agree with him on FAR more than I agree with Gary Johnson.  I probably agree with Ron Paul on 90-95% of issues, while I may only agree with Gary on 65-70% of issues.

To be clear, by "liberal" you mean modern-day Leftist "Progressive" liberal, not classical liberal in the 19th century meaning?  Because I'd gladly accept the 19th century phrase "liberal" but I'm pretty sure that's not how you meant it.
Title: Re: Gary Johnson: I Agree With 73% of What Bernie Sanders Says
Post by: taxed on June 23, 2016, 09:58:04 AM
Do you consider Ron Paul to be a liberal?  I voted for him in 2008 and in 2012 and I agree with him on FAR more than I agree with Gary Johnson.  I probably agree with Ron Paul on 90-95% of issues, while I may only agree with Gary on 65-70% of issues.
I consider Gary Johnson a liberal.  You voted for him.  That makes you a liberal.

Ron Paul is strong in many areas, but foreign policy is not one of them.  Countries that would kill us for practicing Judaism or Christianity aren't very peaceful.

Quote
To be clear, by "liberal" you mean modern-day Leftist "Progressive" liberal, not classical liberal in the 19th century meaning?  Because I'd gladly accept the 19th century phrase "liberal" but I'm pretty sure that's not how you meant it.
No.  Liberal today, like Bernie Sanders or Gary Johnson.  Or you.
Title: Re: Gary Johnson: I Agree With 73% of What Bernie Sanders Says
Post by: walkstall on June 23, 2016, 10:19:40 AM
I guarantee you that I believe in a smaller government than you, I believe in private property rights more than you and I believe in the free market more than you. 


(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a238/Dapper_Dan/bth_42.gif)

IF you believe that I have bridges up for sale.


I think your more full of BS then a diary stud farm.  But that's just my way of thinking.   :lol:

Title: Re: Gary Johnson: I Agree With 73% of What Bernie Sanders Says
Post by: Solar on June 23, 2016, 05:57:42 PM
First, Gary does not call himself a conservative.  He calls himself a libertarian.  And, to be perfectly frank, I may easily not vote for ANYONE because I am so thoroughly not impressed with Gary and Weld at this point.

And this "agree with Bernie 75% of the time" stuff is misleading.  He is referring to a website called "I side with" which gives you a bunch of questions and tells you which candidates you side with most closely.  But the methodology is flawed.  I took the test and it said that I sided with Bernie 68-70% of the time and I am the most radical free market laissez-faire Capitalist you've ever met.  I think the questions are weighted towards certain social views, personal liberties, and foreign policy so differences in economic policy are not counted as much.

Gary is trying to reach out to disaffected Bernie supporters, but that's exactly what Trump is doing as well.  Emphasizes some issues where libertarians would agree with Bernie Sanders doesn't mean we are Socialists, to state the obvious.  It is just an attempt to find common ground where we can and influence people towards our position.
As I said earlier, he has damaged the Libertarian movement and needs to be kicked to the curb, from a rolling vehicle.
If anything, Gary is a squishy Fabisn.
Title: Re: Gary Johnson: I Agree With 73% of What Bernie Sanders Says
Post by: walkstall on June 23, 2016, 06:06:08 PM
As I said earlier, he has damaged the Libertarian movement and needs to be kicked to the curb, from a rolling vehicle.
If anything, Gary is a squishy Fabisn.


Nothing under 150 MPH.
Title: Gary Johnson’s Awkward Night
Post by: Solar on June 24, 2016, 09:56:44 PM
Stupid LIB-ertarian

Then came the most excruciating passage of the night:

I knew these were going to be crucial even back then. ||| Matt Welch
Matt Welch
CUOMO: All right. Governor Johnson, let's do some word association here. I'll say the name, you hit me with the first thing that comes to mind. Remember, we've got an audience here and a lot of people watching out there, as well. President Barack Obama?

JOHNSON: Good guy.

CUOMO: One. Governor Weld?

WELD: Barack Obama? I think he's been statesman-like the last couple of years. He had a disappointing first term, and I think he's picked up his game the last couple of years. It's gone better for him.

CUOMO: Hillary Clinton?

JOHNSON: Hillary Clinton, a wonderful public servant, I guess I would say that.

WELD: Old friend. Nice kid. Knew her in her 20s. We shared an office in the Nixon impeachment, real bond, lifelong. Seriously. Not kidding.

 https://reason.com/blog/2016/06/23/nice-guys-finish-third-gary-johnsons-awk
Title: Re: Gary Johnson’s Awkward Night
Post by: supsalemgr on June 25, 2016, 04:45:15 AM
Stupid LIB-ertarian

Then came the most excruciating passage of the night:

I knew these were going to be crucial even back then. ||| Matt Welch
Matt Welch
CUOMO: All right. Governor Johnson, let's do some word association here. I'll say the name, you hit me with the first thing that comes to mind. Remember, we've got an audience here and a lot of people watching out there, as well. President Barack Obama?

JOHNSON: Good guy.

CUOMO: One. Governor Weld?

WELD: Barack Obama? I think he's been statesman-like the last couple of years. He had a disappointing first term, and I think he's picked up his game the last couple of years. It's gone better for him.

CUOMO: Hillary Clinton?

JOHNSON: Hillary Clinton, a wonderful public servant, I guess I would say that.

WELD: Old friend. Nice kid. Knew her in her 20s. We shared an office in the Nixon impeachment, real bond, lifelong. Seriously. Not kidding.

 https://reason.com/blog/2016/06/23/nice-guys-finish-third-gary-johnsons-awk

He should have run as a democrat.  :smile:
Title: Re: Gary Johnson’s Awkward Night
Post by: Solar on June 25, 2016, 05:47:34 AM
He should have run as a democrat.  :smile:
Yep, though it does appear that's who he's playing to.
Makes me wonder if the Establishment doesn't keep this lib propped up, out of fear of the base bailing on the GOP.
Can't have an actual principled guy leading the party.
Title: Re: Gary Johnson: I Agree With 73% of What Bernie Sanders Says
Post by: jrodefeld on July 01, 2016, 05:57:07 PM
As a libertarian, I think this CNN town hall was basically embarrassing all the way through.  The praise for Hillary was just one of many gaffs and offenses throughout the evening.  Johnson is socially awkward, isn't well read in libertarian philosophy, and doesn't represent libertarianism very well.  Yet, I still MAY vote for him in November because I want to elevate the Libertarian Party and break through the two party stranglehold over electoral politics.  But just be aware that Johnson does not represent the views of most libertarians.

The Libertarian Party was caught totally unprepared for the opportunity that a third party has this election cycle and they did not field very impressive candidates.  It's a shame but, unlike most other ideologies, libertarianism is not concentrated on a particular party.  Many libertarians don't vote out of principle.  So the Libertarian Party has become almost a sideshow to the broader libertarian movement.  The fact that Ron Paul has recently run as a Republican and has not been actively involved with the official Libertarian Party for many years further illustrates this point.

I don't think Johnson is a bad guy at all.  He's just made some bad choices in his campaign so far and is an intellectual lightweight.  Actively pandering to disaffected Democrats while actively alienating disaffected conservatives is quite foolish.  He should be making a principled appeal to both of them. 
Title: Re: Gary Johnson: I Agree With 73% of What Bernie Sanders Says
Post by: taxed on July 02, 2016, 06:29:19 PM
As a libertarian,
You're not a libertarian.  You're a liberal.  Please don't lie to the forum.  Thank you.

Quote
I think this CNN town hall was basically embarrassing all the way through.  The praise for Hillary was just one of many gaffs and offenses throughout the evening.
It wasn't a gaff, dummy.

Quote
  Johnson is socially awkward, isn't well read in libertarian philosophy, and doesn't represent libertarianism very well.
That explains why you voted for him.

Quote
  Yet, I still MAY vote for him in November because I want to elevate the Libertarian Party and break through the two party stranglehold over electoral politics.  But just be aware that Johnson does not represent the views of most libertarians.

The Libertarian Party was caught totally unprepared for the opportunity that a third party has this election cycle and they did not field very impressive candidates.  It's a shame but, unlike most other ideologies, libertarianism is not concentrated on a particular party.  Many libertarians don't vote out of principle.  So the Libertarian Party has become almost a sideshow to the broader libertarian movement.  The fact that Ron Paul has recently run as a Republican and has not been actively involved with the official Libertarian Party for many years further illustrates this point.

I don't think Johnson is a bad guy at all.  He's just made some bad choices in his campaign so far and is an intellectual lightweight.  Actively pandering to disaffected Democrats while actively alienating disaffected conservatives is quite foolish.  He should be making a principled appeal to both of them.
Caught unprepared?